AR15/870 CQB Shotgun

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Brobee,

Will the adapters that are initially available be compatable with the full length rail?

why don't you machine it in house? i don't think a picatinny rail is overly complex to make
Andrew, I agree with you, but I'm shocked as to how many picatinny rails are manufactured out of spec. I think that any product that is to be taken seriously should be manufactured within spec to ensure complete compatablility.
 
Andrew: I've thought about machining in house, however to do justice to the rail I would need much better equipment than what I already have and this early into my business plan I can't justify tooling up to the degree that would be required. As a result, I find myself at the mercy of my ability to seek out and build relationships with those that are tooled up right and can cost effectively manufacture the picatinny blank material.

Techbrute: I too have seen many picatinny products that were not to spec. With respect to current adapters being compatible with the as-yet-to-be-manufactured full length rail system, they are 100% compatible. All of the initial adapters have been machined with threaded mounting holes intended for attechment of the full length rail hardware.

Take care,

BrobeeBiter
 
Any chance...

Any chance you'd be willing to post pics on how you managed to mount that bayonet, and where you found the parts to mount it with.
I think I'll have to second the statement that someone else made, my wife is going to hate you ;) but my 870 is going to love it's new clothes.
 
Hello All!

Progress report: I successfully coated all the test adpaters this weekend! The main production run is underway (waiting on the foundry to communicate a delivery date), and I am frantically trying to find the time to finish the last polishing steps of my commercial internet site upgrade! Several of the recently coated adapters have homes (going to some police departments for trial), but there are going to be some precious few that wind up shipped to those first in line! This is a pretty exciting time for me, and I want to thank all of you for what has been amazing support and participation. I can't wait to start receiving feedback from those first to put the initial commercial units through their paces....:)

USAFA: I'm pretty busy with tieing up the loose ends on getting the first batch out the door, but I will take some photographs of the bayonet attachment as soon as I get a chance and post them. The bayonet was nothing more than a Cold Steel true flight thrower mounted to an aluminum angle iron bracket. The bracket has holes drilled for the knife on one plane, and on the other plane holes drilled for mounting on an ARMS dual throw lever mount. The whole apparatus then just clamps to the full length rail. The catch? It (the bayonet, not the rail) only works on a 14 inch barrelled gun.

Nonbox: The flat black finish will fairly closely match the parkerized 870Ps that I have seen....but be more close to the black typically found on the back end of your standard AR15 telescoping stock/pistol grip.

(edited to add): I thought it might be appropriate to address a question posted on the recent thread (AR-style 870 shotgun ) about my competitor's (Cav Arms) product. I'm going to post here out of respect for them and not wanting to take the wind out of their sails (and sales)...Andrew W is not my marketing director...he is one of hundreds (literally) who have participated across many different forums in similar development threads. I have never met him, however I believe he (and others) feels a strong sense of ownership in an idea that he has honestly influenced greatly, and is as excited as I am to see it initially spread it's wings. Is one better than the other? That is an extremely difficult question to answer, as I can't begin to imagine what is important to one person compared to what is important for another. There are certainly some differences in design philosophy in comparison of the two adapters, and they both have been done to address different problems. I for one am excited to see some variety, as ultimately the consumer then has more choice in an arena where previously there was none. I'll be excited to see their product succeed, as if it does then it is a pretty positive indicator that ours will as well...

Take care all...

BrobeeBiter
 
Nicely Done!

Brobee,

Very nicely worded commentary on your stance regarding competition, as well as the differences between your product and other competing similar products. Should this be your true opinion and feeling(and I have no reason to think otherwise), it is a healthy one and refreshing to read.

I look forward to the day when a notice is received, indicating the product can be ordered.
 
nvrquit: Thanks for those kind wods...

I've been frantically trying to find the time to make the last little changes to my website such that commercial transactions are enabled. This is pretty frustrating for me, as with the exception of her order processing infrastructure, Argonaut is ready to spread wings and feel the breeze of the open world rather than watching from the nest. The main production run waas authorized last week and is now underway.

Photographs of the control castings in their coated states:

coated_adapters_II.jpg

Upper right: crossover plate (designed to allow for varying tolerances in 870 receiver/trigger group materials and still have the adapter fit extremely tightly to the gun) which have been laser cut from 0.25inch steel. The white packages are more coated adapters from the same control units that are being shipped to various law enformement agencies for trial. The remaining adapters will find homes with those first to respond to the ordering process (if I can ever get it enabled!)


coated_adapters_I.jpg

A closeup of one of the coated control castings. They have been serialized and stamped with a small maple leaf. The commercial production adapters will be available both with or without the maple leaf.

Take care All...

BrobeeBiter
 
TechBrute: :) If I can find a small metal stamp with the stars and strips, they will definitely be available stamped that way. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

BrobeeBiter
 
cookhj: Retail is going to be $140 canadian (exchange rate today was 0.741$can/1.00$us)...that puts the price in US dollars at approximately $100.00. I'll start processing orders as soon as I get the website commerce enabled...I have intentions to finish this work this week for christening next week!

Take care,

BrobeeBiter
 
Hello All!

Well...the Argonaut's been towed out of the harbour and there's light reflecting off her sails as she catches her first breath of wind on the open sea! E-mails to those on the *reserved list* have been sent and the e-commerce component of the website has been uploaded and enabled.

While I'm hoping the destination is something akin to the new world, it's the voyage I'm most looking forwards to...

Hoping to share it with many of you!

Sincerely,

BrobeeBiter
 
Really looks great!

BrobeeBiter, sent you an email.

I would like to say that i am really excited about receiving our first unit! Will post pics and review of unit when it arrives.

Thanks
Adam
 
BrobeeBiter:
I believe that if an individual wishes to import over $100US worth of gun parts into the US, it must either be done in person (like driving up to Canada, picking the parts up and crossing the border back into the US) or the individual has to fill out a bunch of paperwork with the ATF to be able to do the importing through mail order.

I purchased a parts kit from Dlask of Canada about a month ago that was priced at exactly $99.99US for that reason (and there was a copy of the applicable laws in the box the kit came with, in case the customs inspectors opened it, but all the paperwork is at my parents' house so I cant post a copy at the moment).

Kharn
 
Hello All!

Rest assured we have done a considerable amount of homework with respect to US import/export regulations and how they apply to Argonaut's castings/machined parts and accessories. When we ship, to the best of our knowledge, we are in compliance with all rules and regulations and there should be no problems with moving these castings across the border.

A large number of our first shipments are going out airmail today, and I'm looking forward to hearing feedback from those on the receiving end!

Take care,

BrobeeBiter
 
Brobee,

Just found this thread last night. Very interesting. I'm not a big fan of the M4, but it does have superior ergonomics- and I believe the stock to be a large part of that. As a stocky 66" tall man, I find that most American stocks are much too long for a good cheek weld with me. The M4 stock, one click out, is just right for me w/out body armor, and with, fully collapsed is perfect.

You have my sincere respect for your courteous comments towards your competition.

some recent discussion has been initiated on the M3 illuminator and how does not meet the muster with respect to military/heavy LE deployment.

Well. I had a SureFire mounted to my M4. When I went to Yakima Training Center a couple of months ago, I took my M3, which stayed on my M4. The M3 does not feel nearly as sturdy, and I do not feel it will hold up as well to hard use as SureFire units. Also, it was very easy to accidentally trigger the switch on my M3, and the battery was soon drained. (I have heard that newer units have a kill switch to prevent this from happening.) I feel that the M3 will probably well suit the needs of the average homeowner who wants the ability to rapidly mount a light to his defensive firearms.

John Shirley
 
Very Nice!!

Just received my adapter this afternoon, ran inside and mounted it on the only 870 at the house.

All I can say is very nice! Fits very well, nice black finish, and the ergonomics are WAY better! I have always has a hard time with my shotties having a LOP way to long. I have used shorter stocks, but prefer the pistol grips. Very hard to find a short stock with a pistol grip.

The angle on the pistol grip feels perfect! I will have to try an ergo and a Battlegrip on there later.

870adapter1.jpg

870adapter2.jpg


Still need a couple other parts, but this is going to make a great social gun.

Email at you Brobeebiter! So when are those rails going to be available?

:neener:
 
Hello All!

Testing Update: A local range ran a SigAcadamy Basic Shotgun course this past weekend, and while I was not participating (I took the course last year and while I really really wanted to participate again, it was suggested by people wiser than myeslf that the money might be better spent upgrading my shooting education with a different course), an 870 marine magnum was equipped with the AR15/870 Stock adapter, a receiver length rail from GG&G, and an Aimpoint was fielded by one of the course participants. Round count consisted of 75 rounds of slug, 75 rounds of 00 buck, and 100 rounds of birdshot.

As a slight diversion from the topic of the adapter, this course is EXCELLENT. Due to an extremely high round count, it is also a torture test for your 12 gauge (shotguns were breaking left right and center) and will definately unveil whether or not you have the mechanical kinks worked out of your pump gun or semi in addition to any handling techiques you may posess that make you more prone to any number of different mechanical stoppages. It is also a sound introduction/complete immersion into the operation of the shotgun and in my opinion provides a significant foundation upon which to build some serious tactical shotgunning skills. Improvements had been made in the target handling capacity of the range since I had taken the course as well...where I had shot almost all paper targets that required constant repair under the insult of 122 gauge annumition, reactive steel targets were employed this time around. A thourough and highly effective immersion in the world of the tactical 12 gauge that earns high marks with the Brobee.

Back to the topic at hand: the 870 marine magnum equipped with the Brobee adapter. Part of the course involves a stoppage clearing drill intended to clear a double feed on the 870. The drill is performed by striking at a 45 degree angle the butt of the shotgun against the ground with a considerable amount of force. When performed on the M4-style stock equipped shotgun, the plastic stock cracked (no visible deformation to the locking pin or holes machined in the buffer tube). The operator of the gun found himself quite surprised to find his aimpoint inches away from his face as the stock collapsed immediately afterwards under fire and reported increased, but not unmanagable recoil, however he cowboyed up and shot the remainder of the course of fire with the stock completely collaped (and did quite well accuracy wise if one is to believe what is around here quickly becoming urban-superheroesque-caliber legend!)

I'll take some photographs of the damaged stock and post them for all to see. It is probably relevant to note that two wooden stocks on other guns were cracked under the same drill (one on an 870 and another on a mossberg). I'm curious to see whether increasing the angle of the strike to 90 degrees still effectively clears the stoppage, as I'm currently speculating that on an AR15 stock equipped shotgun the 45 degree angle of the drill's current butt strike focuses force on the stock in a that might be avoided with some slight modification to the technique. I will be looking for a crappy stock to test the theory...

Images of the marine magnum equipped with an AR15-870 CQB Stock Adapter, a GG&G piece of picatinny rail, and an Aimpoint CompML2 with a GG&G canteliver mount:

marine_magnum_rlr_I.jpg


marine_magnum_rlr_II.jpg


marine_magnum_rlr_III.jpg


Participants of the SigArms Basic Tactical Shotgun Course:

sigarms_shotgun_course.jpg



I'll get some photographs of the broken stock up later...

Take care,

BrobeeBiter
 
Hello All!

Progress Report (it's been a while!): The UPS truck showed up yesterday, and dropped off a large, heavy box. While moving it out to the workshop, I came to the conclusion that I need to finish landscaping in the yard. This thought occured to me while my body went horizontal and was re-enforced when I landed flat on my back and then once again when the box landed on me. I lay there for a moment, appreciating the deep blue of the evening sky, the minus 30 degree (C) weather, and the crispness of the snow as the latter two were sure to counter the effects of impending bruising if I lay there long enough. I could hear the laughter from inside the house...:( The wet nose of a concerned dog was the motivation to get up. At least now I know who my friends are!

Well...any feelings of bruised ego (the physical bruises will eventually heal!) dissapeared when I managed to drag myself into the shop and got that box opened. Woohoo! Adapters Galore. I'll be coating them this weekend, and should be able to start shipping again next week. I have a large number of backorders, however there should be plenty of adapters left over.

While I'm coating the adapters, I'll also coat the receiver length rails that I have finished thus far.

2nd_shipment_arrives_uncoated_I.jpg


2nd_shipment_arrives_uncoated_II.jpg


2nd_shipment_arrives_uncoated_III.jpg


2nd_shipment_arrives_uncoated_IV.jpg


Take care,

Brobee
 
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