Are Bullpups the future?

[halfmoonclip]

Noticed the other day, my AUG is a good 4" shorter than a 10" AR9, an SBR.
With the 'brace' issue unresolved, and likely to be in limbo for a long time, are Bullpups, or even through the grip the future of PCCs?
I had a Beretta Storm some years ago; it worked great, and was significantly shorter than equivalent 16" PCCs. The current S&W folding carbine is another variation.
It seems to me that there are some Bullpup conversions available for the Scorpion, while maintaining the full, unregulated 16" barrel. Modern optics have resolved that issue.
So what say ye? Will Bullpups give us a short alternative for both PCCs and rifle caliber carbines?
Pretty happy with my AUG.
Moon

 

[Pat Riot]

Are Bullpups the future?

Maybe for some things but not overall. They make send for HD & SD. I can’t see it for hunting & target shooting.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Point taken, Pat. Not an all purpose solution, and Bullpups are just different enough to require a real manual of arms adjustment.
I'm just thinking in terms of a means to let us have short and handy arms, without the complication of going SBR. That is what the braces did.
Moon

 

[gotboostvr]

There will certainly be a spot at the table for them, but while they do have some advantages, those are balanced by some short comings.

 

[troy fairweather]

Don't think so they have some good features, but the bad out way the good.

 

[Varminterror]

Bull pups have been around for a long time, and recall, AR braces are really a VERY new development, as it was previously deemed that shouldering a pistol constituted remanufacturing the pistol into an SBR… and within THAT context, bullpups didn’t thrive either.

The market is super fickle, and trends evolve quickly. Maybe bullpups will gain some ground, but I don’t think the shift in pistol brace enforcement is the foundation stone of a new era of bullpups.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Before 'braces', the only legal way to a SBR was a tax stamp, and, as a result they weren't very popular.
Braces opened a door that had been closed, and the number for sale, or parts for sale, rose exponentially.
Now that option is (maybe) taken away. Varminterror, I'll grant you that the nebulous nature of the BATF rule (an illogical gun law! who knew!?! ) discouraged some from shouldering a brace.
I'm just running this up the flagpole, and suggesting that Bullpups (and through the grip) carbines offer a viable option for those desiring a short and handy, legal, carbine.
Yes, they take some adjustment, and no, they can't be readily grafted on to existing platforms just by adding a single, inexpensive part.
I'm really taken with the handiness of an AUG, and the optic on mine really lets me hit things...which got me to thinking.
But the objections make sense, and we'll see what happens.
Thanks,
Moon

 

[lightman]

Quote; "Are Bullpups the future"?
I don't know but I don't think so. It looked that way for a while. Now the future looks more like a bolt action in a Chassis stock. With rails all over it and lots of after market accessories hanging all over it. Lights, lasers, grenade launchers, roll of toilet paper, ect! All of the cool kids have them!

 

[beeenbag]

I don't know about for the mass of the gun community, but they most certainly are for me. I have recently started migrating to my x95 as my favorite and most used 5.56 "life and liberty" type firearm and even more recently migrated to the tavor 7 as my "do all" hunting/utility rifle. Of course they come with some training hurdles, but so does going from a bolt gun to an AR style. The only downside I have found is the little bit of extra weight but when shouldered, the balance of the weight makes it feel lighter to hold on target than my 16" AR's. Just my humble opinion of course.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I see no bullpups in my future.

 

[Spats McGee]

I've never shot a bullpup, but I think I'd like to.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Not likely.
The Brits and Chinese adopted Bullpup configuration firearms, but are abandoning them.
The most recent Chinese issue rifle looks like an amalgamation of an AK receiver and AR forend and buttstock with an approximately 20” barrel. Still chambered for 5.8x42 Chinese cartridge.
With a compact optical sight it looks surprisingly workable…
The bullpup has its place but isn’t a panacea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBZ-191

 

[lysanderxiii]

Are Bullpups the Future?

Bullpups have been around since at 1901, if not earlier.

If they were "the future", you'd have thought they would have made more headway in the last 120 years . . .

 

[PistoleroWadcutterGANG]

No, interesting and ergo for a lot of people and situations. Even the Brit's stopped using it after getting tired of issues with the SA80A2. As a hunting platform there is little to no advantage. As a sporting arm the design doesn't have any potential greater accuracy merit. Just compactness. something that collapsible stocks, folding stocks can facilitate in some manner. Are they an interesting design and worth having to experience, YES!

 

[Necessary_Nutrient]

I think they're cumbersome and unnatural after getting used to AR-15 platforms. I also think, to borrow a phrase from Jurassic Park, that they've had their chance and the firearms community has selected them for novelty status.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Bullpup rifles are yesterday's news.

An ambidextrous bullpup could fit a niche market but would not be The Future.

The future belongs to the phased plasma rifle in at least the 40 watt range.

 

[CapnMac]

Will depend upon who you ask.
Most of the designers believe in them, as a QED.

Do they have a place--probably, there are "niches" is, or for, almost everything.

Are they a trade-off--yes, just like everything else.

Are they the thing for you? Only you can answer that.

So, the short overall length is handy if one wants a "rifle length" barrel in that confined space.
But, you are moving the muzzle closer to your ears as a result, too.
And, in many cases you are getting a less direct trigger-sear connection (this is much worse in 'conversion' designs).

Just because a given military does or does not do a thing, often has far more "baggage" attached to it than first glance will reveal.

The PRC bullpup was going to use a 4.8x39 "super cartridge" when first brought out. Which meant they were changing two variables at the same time. This is almost always a bad idea for military forces. It did not help that, like the SR-80, they put a bunch of bus designers on a firearms project.

People who have perfected getting the valve covers to drip oil on the exhaust manifold are not always the best at firearms details that matter.
So the mag release button winds up where it can be hit by LBE. Or the selector switch requires a second hand to operate it. Or the take-down requires a 3.275mm five-sided "hex" mud-puddle-seeking wrench.

Some are good notions that just don't pan out. The AUG was meant to be an and SMG, and a Carbine, and a Rifle (and possibly a SAW) just by swapping barrels out. Pretty elegant other than 5.56nato is not a good SMG round; nor a great SAW round (also part of the "why" of the PRC 5.8x45 round).

There are bullpups that are less-awful to haul through a shoot-house than 20" rifles. There are, though, some 16-18 rifles that are nicer. But, that's not how military procurement works. It is how civilian procurement works--you buy what works for you.

 

[tarosean]

I would say no....
They have been around forever and only remain a niche item despite braces being around for a decade or so.

*I say that as someone who bought one explicitly to replace a braced pistol that is for my RV.

 

[tark]

I've never shot a bullpup, but I think I'd like to.

I have shot one, decades ago in California before the ban. It was an early AUG and The thing put three shots into one hole @ 100 yards. That impressed the hell out of me.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I think they look goofy, and that's enough for me not to get one, no matter their utility

 

[halfmoonclip]

I have shot one, decades ago in California before the ban. It was an early AUG and The thing put three shots into one hole @ 100 yards. That impressed the hell out of me.

Part of what has dazzled me. My AUG put 3 shots in little more than half an inch at 75 yards, though it does have a low powered optic. I got bragging rights(for a similar group) out of an iron sighted M16A1 replica, too, but it was easier with glass. Both were done with standard military loads.
BTW, the factory spring kit for the trigger pack brings the trigger pull to something easier to use.
Moon

 

[Goosey]

The General Dynamics entry for the NGSW program was very cool. Who knows what the future is. I think feeding through the grip makes much sense for a PCC though.

 

[d2wing]

Short answer. No. Fans of bullpups bring them up like others have never considered them. Most gun guys have already looked at them and decided no. Many reasons.

 

[chicharrones]

I've never shot a bullpup, but I think I'd like to.

Definitely worth trying a couple or more. Rentals or owned by friends, for trial reasons of course.

It gives one a bit more useful information than just hating on the looks.

Although, hating on the price to own is something else, entirely.

 

[chicharrones]

Not likely.
The Brits and Chinese adopted Bullpup configuration firearms, but are abandoning them.
The most recent Chinese issue rifle looks like an amalgamation of an AK receiver and AR forend and buttstock with an approximately 20” barrel. Still chambered for 5.8x42 Chinese cartridge.
With a compact optical sight it looks surprisingly workable…
The bullpup has its place but isn’t a panacea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBZ-191

That's a pretty sophisticated looking firearm.