Are children safer with a gun in the house?

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Harley Quinn

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This has been brought up on a different thread, a couple of us thought it might be a good thread on its own.
So to conform to tactics and stategies I am going to ask.

Is it safer to have the firearm locked up or have a locking device on it while in the house around children? Or is it better to have the parents make the decision and fail to follow the rules (laws) that are now in place in the state I live in, CA...I think many states follow the same law in one form or another.

:uhoh:
 
Why not have a fast-open vault? Couple that with teaching your kids basic firearms safety and you have a very safe household. The latter is KEY.
 
Is it better to have locks on your kitchen drawers where the butcher knives and steak knives are kept, or is it better to teach your children about knives?

Since your question is a generic "is it safer" then it can not be universally answered beyond saying "it depends". It depends on how old the kids are, it depends on how well trained and behaved and respectfull they are, it depends on who else comes into the home, it depends on how the parents and/or other adults are in the house, it depends on many things beyond a simple "is it safe" statement.

While it might be generically "safer" to have them locked up, locking them up does not necessarily make the household any safer. Self control and knowledge, barring any outside circumstances such as criminal break-ins, is what determines safety.

Is it safer to wear a seatbelt in a car? For the most part yes, but I was personally in a head-on collision once where if I had been wearing my seatbelt I would have been cut in half by it as the car hitting me ripped through the door post next to my seat taking the seatbelt mount with it.

As to wondering or asking if it is better to break a law or not, that is not something than can be easily answered, nor should it be on a public forum. Generically one should follow and behave within the constraints of the laws where one resides.

Sorry if I stretched the boundaries and got off topic a little in my analogies.
 
Thanks for the thoughts. Here is one of the big problems, many studies have been done and yes it is safer for children when a gun is not around.

Suprise surprise:what: Not really.

Look what happens when one is taken to a school or playground or a Big Macs:uhoh:

Here is one that was somewhat taken wrong because of the notoriety and political bent of this individual and the character of many when it comes to the danger that is waiting for your child growing up.

http://www.askbjoernhansen.com/2002/10/24/yes_your_children_are_not_safe.html

So are we going to try and find some stories that tell you how safe it is in your house with a loaded gun or are we going to find more to tell you how unsafe it is?

;)
 
No sane parent would put two cents on reliability of teaching chilren anything and then having them act properly. If children had the reasoning facilities and impulse control of adults, they would be... adults.

That said, parents should take their chances.

miko
 
I can only speak from my own experience but I've raised six children...all with guns in the house. They all were taught to safely handle & shoot guns. They all were made acutely aware of the danger & potential devastation associated with guns (an early 12 gauge shotgun blast vs. water melon demonstration makes for a graphic, memorable lesson. My kids, now "old enough", still remember their complete shock & awe at the event). My youngest son (now 18) once gave a visiting neighbor friend a black-eye when they were 10 years old who insisted on trying to enter my out-of-bounds bedroom closet. Alex later told me & the young man's father...that he knew, for sure, that NOBODY was to enter that closet. Under ANY circumstances. Friend or no friend.

Parents know better how to keep their house in ship-shape than do legislators or do-gooders. I have drain cleaner under the sink, gasoline out in the shed, sharp knives in the drawer & electrical outlets EVERYWHERE. I'll decide how best to; 1st - Protect and 2nd - Instruct my children as to the dangers that surround them. They listened to me because of the lessons I gave them as their father. They followed those lessons because they knew not doing so meant correction & punishment. And they survived to thank me for those lessons because they remembered those lessons, and they do to this day. Parents should decide how & where their children are most safe.

One of the reasons I keep & bear arms is to protect my family & property. When that need arises, I DON'T want to be struggling for tiny keys in the dark or quietly, calmly trying to remember combinations. It is the parents & family who's lives may hang in the balance. And it is those same people who suffer in the event of a tragedy. Society doesn't suffer at all, so why should society (lawmakers) be given the right of "correct decision" without ANY of the responsibility of "deciding correctly".
 
+1000 to Ghost Tracker
Far better to gunrpoof your kids than to kidproof your guns. And a parent will know when that has been acheived to an acceptable level.
 
Securely stored firearms within the home cuz NO harm; and in fact, just
might someday save a life of a loved one. Its best to teach children all
the rules of firearms safety at an early age. If they become inquizitive-
make the firearm safe, and let them handle it. Once they understand
all aspects of safe handling of weapons; carry them to the nearest
range, and let 'em shoot (with proper instruction) of course~! That
is how I taught my daughter, and she is a dang good shot. ;):D

BTW, I will do the same for my 3 year old grand-daughter; when she
becomes of age~!
 
Now the only problems are; three of them now think they can out-shoot me (sigh, two of them are RIGHT) & they talk about dividing up my gun collection...like I'm already DEAD!

The ungrateful little @#%&@*! God bless 'em every one.
 
My siblings and I grew up in a house with guns from the time we were all babies.

My parents used a two prong defense of putting the guns in locking containers that children couldn't reasonably be expected to open, and telling us what a gun was and why we shouldn't touch it. We were also taught to leave any area where there was a gun that no adult had supervision over or if we thought there might be any danger.

Combine that with the fact that I got to fire a gun several times as a small child such that my curiosity was sated, and what you had were children who knew not to play with guns, who had no physical access to guns, and who had no motive to search for guns to try to play with them.

It's not hard, and it's not rocket science. When I was 10 years old I was given the task of the safe keeping of my very own Marlin model 60. Yes, I had full time access to a real semiautomatic firearm (one considered an "assault weapon" in some locales) at ten years old, the horror!
 
I teach my kids all about guns, and keep them locked up. My HD pistols are in a quick access gunvault by the bed.

I can get to them quick enough...and I also feel reasonably assured that the kids can't.
 
If I had a child in the house I would have a fast open safe. I do not need a law to tell me that weapon should be secured when adults are not around children. Education and taking precautions is necessary, however I still don't need a law to tell me that.
 
Ya gotta do both... Kid-proof the guns and gun-proof the kids.

I have two little boys - aged 2 and 4. Both of them see me strapping on my ccw every day and have expressed a natural curiosity. Therefor, I told them that any time they wanted to take a look at my guns, all they had to do was ask. We would then sit down, make sure the firearms were unloaded and handle them safely while reviewing the 4 rules of safe gun handling.

We also go over not talking about Daddy's guns outside the house or with anyone outside the family. Also if they ever go to a friend's house and the friend wants to get out his dad's gun, they are to say, "No thanks" and come home and tell me. They may know how to handle a gun, but their friend may not.
 
Most likely your father, grandfathers, great-great-grandfathers, great-great-grandfathers, great-great-great-grandfathers, etc. etc. all kept guns in the house, without trigger locks or gun safes, often loaded and ready to go.

That is why people are now extinct.
 
I have also pondered this issue.

Obviously, it's a personal decision to own a firearm. If a parent chooses to own a firearm, then you MUST teach your kids basic firearm safety--not necessarily how to shoot, just leave it alone, leave the area, tell an adult, the Eddie Eagle stuff. If you want to teach them to shoot, then you obviously need to teach them the golden rules of gun safety also.
It's basically like owning a car: you have to ingrain in your kid that they can only use them under direct supervision of you (remember sitting on your dad's lap and "driving" at about age 7 or so?).

I think it would be best to have a key-operated gun safe if you want to have firearms other than those for home-defense. The key should be kept on your person at all times, or at night, in one of those fingerprint quick-access safes. Home-defense weapons should be kept in the quick-access safe also.

In the end, it all comes down to the parents.

Ah, here's the perfect thing:http://www.gunvault.com/
 
Harley Quinn said:
This has been brought up on a different thread, a couple of us thought it might be a good thread on its own.
So to conform to tactics and stategies I am going to ask.
Is it safer to have the firearm locked up or have a locking device on it while in the house around children? Or is it better to have the parents make the decision and fail to follow the rules (laws) that are now in place in the state I live in, CA...I think many states follow the same law in one form or another.
Click to expand...

One needs to take precautions to keep firearms and other dangerous tools (chainsaws, pitchforks, hot coffee) from harming children. This is not only common sense but an innate responsibility of parents and guardians whether there are laws in place or not. To keep children (and adults) safe there must be some means of stopping an attack by those who will do them harm. That's the reason for keeping a firearm on one's person or in the house. Does this cause a conundrum - not necessarily... there are many ways to maintain safety.

This is a different question alltogether than the statement you made in a previous thread that led you to starting this one.

Harley Quinn said:
Studies have been done many times that show if a gun was not in the house the children and other folks are a lot safer.
Click to expand...

What bothered quite a few was that you went on to use Michael Moore as an "authority" for your statement. Your position on this was debunked by Robert Hairless quite eloquently and you answered by challenging to him to leave and start a new thread - which you have now done yourself - but with an entirely different question. (hmmmm.... taken a leaf from Michael Moore's book perhaps?)
You again in this thread point to a quote by this proven charlatan and liar, a man who has made a career out of distorting facts to make his case... not an auspicious way to make your argument.
 
I was raised in a house that kept an unsecured shotgun in the parent's closet all the time. I was never instructed on how to use it, just that I should never touch it. I never did touch that gun until just a few years ago in my mid 20's when I got my dad out to the trap range.

My grandpa did teach me a bit about shooting when I was 8-9 years old, but there wasn't much emphasis on safety. No eye protection, hearing protection, and no talk about the 3 (or 4) rules of safety.

Sometimes I'm amazed that nobody in my family has had an ND that resulted in the death of somebody or something. Grandpa almost killed a cat once when "cleaning" a muzzle loader I hear.

As far as locking up the guns or putting a lock on the gun: Gun vaults, steel cabinets, etc. will be what I employ for HD guns whenever I get around to having kids.

Trigger locks are just stupid. Brain dead stupid. What's rule #2 again? Never put your finger on the trigger unless you're ready to fire. Why on God's green earth would anybody stick a metal rod right in front of the trigger and lock it there?

In Ted Nugent's book, God, Guns and Rock & Roll he related a story about an ND in his own house. One of his gun racks was set on the floor, rifles were mounted muzzle up, and they put a cable through the trigger guards of all the guns. Sure enough, one was left loaded and his toddler pulled on the cable causing a discharge. Putting anything inside the trigger guard of a gun is just stupid. We repeat this over and over to ourselves but sometimes ignore it when it comes to anything but out fingers.

I will never understand that.

When I first got into firearms the man (Marine) that got me on this path once explained what he does: On every floor of his house there is a gun vault. When the kids go to bed he opens them up, loaded pistol ready and waiting. When he, or his wife I guess, gets up they lock the vaults and they're good to go.

And yes, he did gun-proof his kids. They were well schooled on them. When I went to the range with him and his 12 year old he asked his kid if he'd be OK with shooting the 9mm for that trip. The kid's response? "I have no parabellum with that!" Yeah, I'd say that kid knew his guns pretty well.
 
In that old study of firearms in home = trouble, it actually had being a renter being twice as likely to cause badness.

so skip the gun/no gun, go buy a house
 
The book Freakonomics noted that, statistically, a swimming pool in the back yard is far more dangerous to children than a loaded gun in the house.
 
Accidentals happen all the time and many times no one is hurt or anyone other than the squeezer of the trigger tells, or knows about it.

The time that someone is hurt or killed is when the police are notified.
Then it is entered into the big pot of stats.
 
Define "safe"

I think that many of the problems our (largely suburban, increasingly service-oriented) culture is that people, especially young people, have increasingly been denied opportunities to develop specific skills, confidence-building general competencies, an appreciation of real danger and an appreciation for deliberately taking acceptable risks.

And instead of being "safe" we're increasingly the fattest and stupidest nation on the planet with the most neuroses (ok, well, except the Japanese. They pretty much win the neurotic award).

I think that sheltering kids from things that are potentially dangerous is absolutely vital. But I also think that that sheltering is absolutely devastating. The answer is in balance, and in the absolute and utter banishment of the phrase "you can't be too careful". Um, yes, you can. Which is why there are millions of young Americans who don't know the first thing about anthing even potentially dangerous. In the proces they've been denied the chance to learn so many thousands of neat things.

So, yeah, indiviual choices, based on the family itself, yadda yadda.

But locking up you guns from your kids carries a negative as well as a positive. You are trading something off by sheltering them from having access to guns. It's not just a negative for the general safety of the household in an HD sense. It's a danger of giving your kids the legacy of over-protective sheltering that is ruining large segments of out nation.

My husband and I, in very different but very insidious ways, were raised with the over-sheltering skills-deprivation that is so common now. We're working hard to overcome it. I feel like we're about ten years behind where we should be with developing certain basic competencies and confidences as the result of the epidemic of over-caution. I don't want our children to have to do the same.
 
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