FourTeeFive
Member
Just wondering if the magazines stay the same when the .303 British guns were converted to .308 Nato?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Are Enfield .303 and .308 magazines the same?
- Thread starter FourTeeFive
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DMK
Member
No. They are definitely different.
To make a visual ID, I'm pretty sure all 7.62x51 (.308) mags had flat bottoms. .303 mags have a rounded bottom.
To make a visual ID, I'm pretty sure all 7.62x51 (.308) mags had flat bottoms. .303 mags have a rounded bottom.
FourTeeFive
Member
Thanks DMK!
Limeyfellow
Member
Yes they are considerably different.
This 2a uses a 7.62mm nato magazine and you can notice the squared off bottom. All the 7.62mm nato mags also held 12 rounds instead of the 10 held in .303 British magazines.
This 2a uses a 7.62mm nato magazine and you can notice the squared off bottom. All the 7.62mm nato mags also held 12 rounds instead of the 10 held in .303 British magazines.
DMK
Member
For further reference, here some pics of an L42 and an Enforcer. Both are 7.62 Enfield sniper rifles.
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn44-e.htm
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn44-e.htm
mainmech48
Member
The magazines are quite different and will not interchange. A visual comparison of the two cartridges will illustrate to some degree why that is so.
The .303 British has a rimmed case that dates back to the black powder era. It also has a more pronounced taper (0.540" at the rim to 0.401" at the shoulder) than most of the more modern rounds. In order to feed a case shaped like this reliably from a double-stack box magazine, especially when it is to be charged via 'stripper' clips, the body must be designed so that the rims will be staggered in front of each other as they are loaded and that the bases of the cartridges will sit at the proper angle relative to the bolt. The shape of the feed lips is also dictated to a large extent by these factors.
The 7.62x51 NATO round is a rimless case with much less (0.473" to 0.454") taper. The cartridge is also approx. 0.275" shorter in OAL.
The two types are shaped quite differently and are not easily confused with each other. The 7.62 box is more rectilinear and has a much less pronounced angle to its base plate.
FWIW, there was much more involved in adapting the SMLE design to the 7.62x51 than giving it a different barrel and magazine. The pressure specs peak at a considerably higher value, which mandated that both the materials and heat treatment of the action be changed to handle it. Attempting to convert an SMLE #1 or #4 action to 7.62x51 would be both dangerous and much more expensive than buying the most pristine 2A or 2A1 Ishapore rifle.
The .303 British has a rimmed case that dates back to the black powder era. It also has a more pronounced taper (0.540" at the rim to 0.401" at the shoulder) than most of the more modern rounds. In order to feed a case shaped like this reliably from a double-stack box magazine, especially when it is to be charged via 'stripper' clips, the body must be designed so that the rims will be staggered in front of each other as they are loaded and that the bases of the cartridges will sit at the proper angle relative to the bolt. The shape of the feed lips is also dictated to a large extent by these factors.
The 7.62x51 NATO round is a rimless case with much less (0.473" to 0.454") taper. The cartridge is also approx. 0.275" shorter in OAL.
The two types are shaped quite differently and are not easily confused with each other. The 7.62 box is more rectilinear and has a much less pronounced angle to its base plate.
FWIW, there was much more involved in adapting the SMLE design to the 7.62x51 than giving it a different barrel and magazine. The pressure specs peak at a considerably higher value, which mandated that both the materials and heat treatment of the action be changed to handle it. Attempting to convert an SMLE #1 or #4 action to 7.62x51 would be both dangerous and much more expensive than buying the most pristine 2A or 2A1 Ishapore rifle.
Limeyfellow
Member
There were a few companies that did conversion kits to basically change your No4 Lee Enfield into the upgraded No9 like the military did. Sterling were quite famous for them. These changes consisted of a new heavy target barrel, a new bolthead to hold higher pressures, new extracter and ejector to deal with the new rimless cartridge, new magazine and an insert for the charger (stripper clip).
Others upgraded such as a Canadian target rifle though it used the original magazine so was single shot, the No9 Lee Enfield which were upgraded various No4 models. There was the lovely L39 and L42 target and sniper rifles (I would love either of these but they are way past my price range) and a number of others,
The No1 MkIII could not be upgraded however as it used a weaker much thinner reciever and other parts. The Indians however did come up with a new version of the basic design using 1950s metalurgly that was strong enough to hold the higher pressures and we got given the 2a and 2a1. There about the only Lee Enfield in 7.62mm nato that you going to find for a decent price and lack the refinement and finish of the others.
Others upgraded such as a Canadian target rifle though it used the original magazine so was single shot, the No9 Lee Enfield which were upgraded various No4 models. There was the lovely L39 and L42 target and sniper rifles (I would love either of these but they are way past my price range) and a number of others,
The No1 MkIII could not be upgraded however as it used a weaker much thinner reciever and other parts. The Indians however did come up with a new version of the basic design using 1950s metalurgly that was strong enough to hold the higher pressures and we got given the 2a and 2a1. There about the only Lee Enfield in 7.62mm nato that you going to find for a decent price and lack the refinement and finish of the others.
The exterior lock up is the same but the magazines are completely different. I answered this question for someone before and looking at both magazines you would have to add metal to the 303 to be able to shape the lips of the 7.62 NATO the way they are. There are more pronounced lips on the 7.62 NATO so conversion of a 303 isn't feasible.
Limeyfellow
Member
To fit a 7.62mm also requires some work on the stock removing wood to get it to fit properly.
Vairochana
Member
No, the .303 magazine fits the rifle perfectly and looks like it was grown as a part of it - .308 mag looks like a badly fitted wooden leg
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