Are Glocks really drop safe? Even in the summer?

[Warp]

I started a new thread so as not to draw the old one even more off topic.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=10175455&postcount=61

Trigger Safety - Video Trigger Safety

The trigger safety is a lever incorporated into the trigger. When the trigger safety is in the forward position it blocks the trigger from moving rearward. The trigger safety and the trigger must be fully depressed at the same time to fire the pistol. If the trigger safety is not depressed, the trigger will not move rearward and allow the pistol to fire. The trigger safety is designed to protect against firing if the pistol is dropped or the trigger is subjected to lateral pressure.

“Safe Action”® System

GLOCK’s revolutionary “Safe Action”® System provides a consistent trigger pull from the first to the last round. The three automatic independently operating mechanical safeties are built into the fire control system of the pistol. All three safeties disengage sequentially as the trigger is pulled and automatically reengage when the trigger is released. This safe, simple and fast system allows the user to concentrate fully on tactical tasks, particularly while under stress. It is safe if dropped and functional at temperatures from -40° to 122° Fahrenheit.

And who would want a system that Glock states that its functional (only) to 122F ?!?!


I guess you shouldn't leave it in the car on a warm summer day.

But that's another thread......

 

[Telekinesis]

Yes, they are drop safe. I've tried it.

It is safe if dropped and functional at temperatures from -40° to 122° Fahrenheit.

Meh. This probably has more to do with the way Glock did their testing than actual limitations of the polymer or design itself. Its also likely a reference to some government testing that made those specific requirements. Kind of a shout out to those supply groups to say "we know you have this specific requirement and we have met it". (122° is very close to the max summer temperature in Iraq.)

Considering this is published marketing material, there's also a good chance that there's a safety margin built in to those numbers.

 

[ny32182]

I promise the Glock will function the same at any temperature that you could survive in, and then some.

 

[ny32182]

Also, the syntax there is not applying a temperature range to the "drop safe" quality. It is saying:

The Glock is drop safe...

AND

The Glock is functional at temp -40 to 122.

 

[Warp]

Also, the syntax there is not applying a temperature range to the "drop safe" quality. It is saying:

The Glock is drop safe...

AND

The Glock is functional at temp -40 to 122.

I believe you are correct as I read it again.

I didn't even think of it since the first to bring it up was doing so purely from a safe standpoint...but it seems pretty clear the temperature range is referring to it working, not being drop safe

 

[Drail]

I wold imagine the temp. rating applies to the lube they use - not the gun. Unless something bad happens to the polymer at 123 degrees F.

 

[Schwing]

I don't like Glocks at all but they are certainly drop safe. I also would agree that the temperature range is not really a factor.

 

[danez71]

Thanks Warp. I was just coming back and was thinking I might ask this question.

Yes... I read it too that the Safe Action System is good to 122F.

Maybe this is from tolerances and the thermal coffieient of expansion of the various materials.

Let's take Glocks statement at face value for a minute. They designed it and they tested it.

If, hypothetically, the safe action system stops functioning, does that mean the gun is inoperable because it binds up or does that mean the safeties don't reset or .......?



Given that 122F isn't that hot, it seems there must be some underlying reason (failure) that they have seen in testing.

Imagine if Ford said their ECM was functional to 122F. If I drive a Ford, I'd be a little concerned even if there weren't any reports from customers.

 

[MikeJackmin]

Keep in mind that even if the safe-action trigger were to fail in some spectacular fashion in the heat, the striker is still only half-cocked. You can drop it all day long and nothing is going to pop that primer.

 

[Jim K]

The trigger safety has zilch to do with keeping the gun from firing if dropped. The firing pin safety does that. The trigger safety is pretty much pointless; it is hard to imagine a way the gun could drop and land in such a way as to cause the trigger to move,

Jim

 

[jmr40]

The whole point of having the blade in the trigger is to prevent the gun from firing if dropped. That is it's only function. If the gun lands at just the right angle inertia will pull the trigger and cause the gun to discharge. Since the blade inside the trigger must be depressed to pull the trigger this prevents inertia from pulling the trigger.

 

[danez71]

And yet Glock describes how it does have something to do with being drop safe and specifically says it was design for that reason.

 

[rcmodel]

The whole point of having the blade in the trigger is to prevent the gun from firing if dropped

Wrong!

The whole point of the trigger blade safety is only to prevent the trigger being pulled by a snagged holster or something if your finger isn't on it.

How much inertia do you think a little plastic trigger could develop??

It would have to overcome the half-cocked striker with over five pounds of force to finish cocking the striker and firing the gun.

Couldn't happen if you dropped it out of a B-52 at 40,000 feet!!

And even then the firing pin block would prevent it unless the light weight trigger had enough inertia to hold itself back long enough for the striker to clear the FP safety.

It's just not gonna happen!!!

rc

 

[Jim K]

The trigger blade safety is useless except in narrow circumstances, like the trigger snagging on the edge of a holster. It serves to stop the trigger from being pulled ONLY when the force pulling the trigger is at the edge or the tip of the trigger, and that would be an uncommon situation to say the least.

I have long believed it is purely for show, intended only as eyewash to convince buyers that the pistol is safe. (It is, but not because of the trigger blade.)

The grip safety on a 1911 is in the same category; it blocks the trigger, but won't keep the sear from disengaging or the firing pin from creeping if the gun is dropped.

Jim

 

[JRWhit]

There are lots of designs that are designed not to fire when dropped, ie firing pin block, but Glock seems to be the first to beat past the lawyers and say it.

I would think there would be a larger concern of the ammo inside of the dropped pistol. If you have ever used an inertia puller you'll know why.

 

[corton93]

122 degrees is safe, and nothing special happens at 123+ either. Im one of those guys that washes his glock in the dishwasher (no detergent). According to my food thermometer, my dishwasher warms up to 150 degrees, give or take a few. Have I ever re-assembled and fired it straight out of the dish washer? No. But neither have I ever opened it up to find a puddle of soft-black plastic clogging up the drain either. YMMV

 

[burk]

I tried my Glock at 123 last summer. Don't do it! I dropped it twice, it went off both times but the bullet dissapeared in the melting sidewalk

But at temperatures between -40 and 122 I've never had any issues.

 

[Dragon breath]

122 degrees Fahrenheit converts to 50 degrees Celsius. Which is a common temperature to test too in a lab.

 

[JohnKSa]

The trigger safety has zilch to do with keeping the gun from firing if dropped.

If the gun is dropped and lands on the rear of the slide, the trigger bar (in the absence of restraint) will continue to move backwards as a result of momentum and could, conceivably fire the gun under some circumstances. The possibility is enhanced by the fact that the striker would also be pulled to the rear by its momentum, making it easier for the inertia of the trigger bar to compress the striker spring.

Under those circumstances, the movement of the trigger bar would also disable the firing pin safety, rendering it useless.

One function of the trigger safety is to prevent that possibility. It locks the trigger, and therefore the trigger bar in place and because of its design it can not be operated by momentum in the rearward direction. That insures that even if the striker moves backwards as a result of momentum, it will re-engage the trigger bar/sear when it comes back forward. And, even if parts break during the reengagement process and the striker moves forward past the "sear", the firing pin safety will still be engaged since the trigger bar hasn't moved to disengage it.

It also provides a measure of snag resistance.

How much inertia do you think a little plastic trigger could develop??

It's not the trigger as much as it is the trigger bar that develops inertia. The Glock trigger assembly (trigger, trigger safety, trigger bar) is actually mostly steel, it's just the trigger and trigger safety that are plastic.

The trigger blade safety is useless except in narrow circumstances, like the trigger snagging on the edge of a holster.

A little experimentation can provide some interesting insight into the trigger/trigger safety design.

The trigger safety prevents the trigger from moving if the trigger isn't engaged on the lower center portion of the trigger. Something catching the edge of the trigger won't operate the trigger. Something engaging any part of the upper half of the trigger bow also won't operate the trigger because there's no trigger safety in that area to be operated.

Because the trigger is curved, a snagging object that doesn't initially engage the trigger with stiff resistance has a tendency to ride up the curve of the trigger to the upper part of the bow where it can't engage the trigger safety.

The trigger safety can't make the trigger completely snag proof, but it does a pretty good job of cutting down on what kind of engagements with snagging objects can operate the trigger. Basically only snagging objects that engage the lower center portion of the trigger with firm initial resistance will operate the trigger. That, in combination with the proportionally wider trigger guard makes the system pretty snag resistant.

 

[rcmodel]

O.K.

I still contend there is no single part in a Glock, or combination of parts that weigh enough to cock the striker and make it fire when dropped.

(Except those well documented cases of one slipping down your baggy pants, and it shoots you in the leg when you try to grab it.)

Such as the Paxico Burris incident in a bar.

Again, the gun isn't fully cocked when it is loaded.
The striker is locked back by a hefty steel pin until the trigger is pulled full stroke.

And the sum of it's parts doesn't weigh enough to cock the striker if you dropped it out of a B-52 at 40,000 feet!!!

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

And no, I'm not a Glock Fan-Boy.
I actually hate them!!

But they are the least likely to fire if dropped of any firearm I can think of.

rc

 

[JohnKSa]

I still contend there is no single part in a Glock, or combination of parts that weigh enough to cock the striker and make it fire when dropped.

Remember that the striker itself is pretty heavy. Next to the barrel and slide it's the most massive piece of steel in a Glock pistol. If the pistol were dropped muzzle up, the momentum of the firing pin would be moving in a direction to cock itself even without the help of the trigger bar.

What it amounts to is the striker moving backwards based on its own momentum and the trigger bar following it back under its momentum. If the striker moves without the trigger bar, it's a non-issue because the "hefty steel pin" and the trigger bar itself will block it when it reaches the end of travel and the spring drives it back forward. But if the trigger bar follows it under its own momentum then it will disable the passive safeties and the "hefty steel pin" won't be blocking the striker when it comes back forward.

 

[ny32182]

None of the parts are heavy.

Someone could calculate how hard the Glock would have to strike the ground with the muzzle straight up to cause inertia of the trigger components to overcome a 5lb trigger pull, and pull.

I'd guess it is well in excess of terminal velocity.

Glocks, as they come out of the box, are drop safe, and functional at any temperature that doesn't melt the frame. Which is a whole hell of a lot higher than 122F.

Some tests were run up to that temp in a lab, and therefore ANSI or whoever states by regulation that is the temp they have to put in the manual. That is all.

Your Glock is drop safe. Don't worry about it.

 

[DPris]

Complete non-issue.
Denis

 

[MIL-DOT]

The trigger blade safety is useless except in narrow circumstances, like the trigger snagging on the edge of a holster. It serves to stop the trigger from being pulled ONLY when the force pulling the trigger is at the edge or the tip of the trigger, and that would be an uncommon situation to say the least.

I have long believed it is purely for show, intended only as eyewash to convince buyers that the pistol is safe. (It is, but not because of the trigger blade.)

Agreed, I've thought their trigger 'safety' was nearly useless, for years now. It seems to be taken at face value by most, I think your comment is the first criticism I've seen on it. I'm trying to do a search for more critical discussions on it, but am coming up dry.

 

[Drail]

The Glock Safe Action trigger has not prevented a number of people from shooting themselves when the cord lock or zipper of their jacket entered the trigger guard while they reholstered the gun. Lot of documented cases. Yeah, I know that's primarily a training issue but it wouldn't have happened with a sear or hammer blocking safety. They can "call" it a "revolutionary safety system" - or whatever they want - but it's not really a safety as far as i am concerned. I like the word "gimmick" better. If you carry a Glock pay careful attention when holstering it. If anything gets in that trigger guard you will have a bad day.