Why are popular striker-fired pistols safe?

[Garandimal]

I absolutely can. Because if my thumb is on top of it, it’s off.

Then, riding the OEM fiddle-switch, how do you depress the grip-safety?




GR

 

[Zerodefect]

The only time I turn on a 1911 safety, I only have one hand on the pistol, so yeah, I can turn the safety on without breaking grip.

The safety is really only turned on for reholstering. You can move with it off, unlike a DaSa that we'd decock.

 

[ATLDave]

Then, riding the OEM fiddle-switch, how do you depress the grip-safety?GR

What the Sam Hill are you talking about? I’m applying pressure fore and aft on the grip with my fingers pulling back against the heel of my hand to hold the gun, which also deactivated the grip safety. The end of my thumb has nothing to do with that. I can flag my thumb straight up and keep the grip safety depressed... not that I’d ever want to.

 

[Garandimal]

What the Sam Hill are you talking about?

Simple.

To ride the OEM Springfield fiddle-switch, I have to reach up and back, and it disengages the grip-safety.

Like this picture:

GR

 

[ATLDave]

Grip safety is disengaged in that picture, even with my hand rolled slightly open to photograph it. Grip harder.

 

[Garandimal]

Grip safety is disengaged in that picture, even with my hand rolled slightly open to photograph it. Grip harder.

Not on my pistol with that much grip-safety showing.

More academic advice.

Got an arched mainspring housing?

In the shooting reality, especially one-handed, because the off-hand is busy, you have successfully disengaged one safety while you inadvertently engage another.

Maybe there was a reason those old 1911 training vids were the way they were, with the OEM fiddle-switches.




GR

 

[cfullgraf]

For me, under the circumstances that I carry, I am not comfortable with potential energy stored in the firing control systems of any pistol. This applies to striker fired pistols or single action pistols with some sort of manual safety.

I am comfortable with a DA/SA pistol and have practice extensively with them. I am comfortable that I have a suitably accurate first shot capability under the DA shot and accurate second shot capability with the SA shot. My current protection pistol is a H&K P30SK with a V3 trigger. (P.S. I am comfortable with my capability of firing a DA only S&W M642 for self defense.)

If one is comfortable with a striker fired pistol in an appropriate designed holster or a SA pistol with a manual safety, then great, I have no issues as in my opinion, the person carrying the pistol is the primary person at risk with the pistol.

Things would be different for me under different social/environmental conditions requiring my carry position to be different, but not currently.

For me, my Glock 17 and Glock 43 are great shooters but live in the safe.

 

[Garandimal]

For me, under the circumstances that I carry, I am not comfortable with potential energy stored in the firing control systems of any pistol. This applies to striker fired pistols or single action pistols with some sort of manual safety...

​

GR

 

[Zerodefect]

Simple.

To ride the OEM Springfield fiddle-switch, I have to reach up and back, and it disengages the grip-safety.

Like this picture:

GR

I see what you mean. That's a dismal flaw common with many 1911's.

You need to tear drop cut the thumb safety paddle. Remove the rear of the paddle. It allows your thumb to point forward more, and gives the web of your hand more purchase on the grip safety.

Then you need to file the grip safeties block down until just the slightest amount of movement deactivates it. I call it sensitizing the grip safety. It's a shame that almost no 1911's come with these absolutely critical mods. Most noticeable in rushed draw training.

Cocked and locked 1911 is still the safest pistol out there, regardless of how we feel about the hammer.

 

[Garandimal]

I see what you mean. That's a dismal flaw common with many 1911's.

You need to tear drop cut the thumb safety paddle. Remove the rear of the paddle. It allows your thumb to point forward more, and gives the web of your hand more purchase on the grip safety.

Then you need to file the grip safeties block down until just the slightest amount of movement deactivates it. I call it sensitizing the grip safety. It's a shame that almost no 1911's come with these absolutely critical mods. Most noticeable in rushed draw training.

Cocked and locked 1911 is still the safest pistol out there, regardless of how we feel about the hammer.

Or, just disengage the fiddle-switch on the draw and then slide the thumb under and up, like the ole days, like a GLOCK grip, and ignore it until re-holster.

The arched mainspring housing helps with the pointing coincidence.

The Sig P938 fiddle-switch is so small, like the M&P Shield, that even sans grip safety, you want to be clear of both it and the slide when you get to firing.

Working backwards from a GLOCK helps.

Just add swipe.




GR

 

[Zerodefect]

Support hand is too low that way. Giving up some recoil control. The meat at the base of your support hand thumb should almost kiss the bottom of the thumb safety. So that your support hand is all the way up to the bottom of the slide.

Pretty much support thumb pointing directly at the target, with your entire hand broken forward so every bone in your thumb is inline and parallel with the bottom of the slide. It's ok to relax and allow the support thumb to point up a little.


And you risk activating the safety during recoil, under stress. If I couldn't get over the safety, I'd cut it down a ton like the early 1911's.

 

[Garandimal]

Support hand is too low that way. Giving up some recoil control. The meat at the base of your support hand thumb should almost kiss the bottom of the thumb safety.

And you risk activating the safety during recoil, under stress. If I couldn't get over he safety, I'd cut it down a ton like the early 1911's.

I can get both hands jammed up and solid - under the OEM fiddle-switch, no problem.

And recoil moves the fiddle-switch away from my thumb.

I have to break my grip to engage it.


...Almost like it was designed that way.






GR

 

[Zerodefect]

It's ok to break the grip to turn the safety on. My grip breaks when I return to the retention position anyways.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I have noticed in the past that trained Military Police can draw, rack the slide, and fire a 1911 about 99 percent as fast as a shooter with a cocked and locked weapon.

There is much to like about condition three. I would be reluctant to tell the Military Police or the Israelis that they're wrong.

I think a military policeman would have to become very proficient to be 99% as fast as someone starting with a C&L'd 1911 who wasn't a complete klutz. Achieving that sort of proficiency for a shooter would take a lot of range and practice time and also have pretty good reflexes -- and anyone with reflexes that quick would probably be even faster if he or she went the C&L route. (A physiologist I know says those folks probably have "quick twitch" muscles.) Most GIs, even MPs, seldom got that much range or training time.

Then, too, I don't think many MPs, SPs, or APs have had a lot of access to 1911s since the mid 1980s, when the DoD started phasing in the M9s.

If you find Condition 3 an acceptable carry mode, you better hope you won't have to use your weak hand or arm to block a punch, deflect a knife attack, or push aside a companion to get him or her out of the line of fire as you get your weapon ready to go.

As I understand it, the Israeli technique you referred to was developed and adopted by and for Mossad agents working under cover, and it was a defensive technique that made it hard for someone who grabbed the gun from using it against the agent.From what I've read in recent years, the Israelis no longer carry that way -- as Glocks are becoming the standard weapon.

Condition 3 when used by MPs or other GIs was basically a technique done to keep people who weren't especially proficient from having a negligent discharge. Much of military training takes that basic approach -- keep it simple so even the idiots can do it safely. You shouldn't try to make Condition 3 carry something it isn't.

 

[shoobe01]

It has been recently explained by some knowledgable folks that the Israeli condition 3 is because they have a conscript army, and piles of settlers who carry guns day to day, but do not care much about them. It avoids NDs, and slows down any gun snatchers getting the weapon into action quickly. They are generally in groups, and do not expect action to occur without warning, so the delay in bringing it to action is an acceptable threat mitigation/risk tradeoff.

Soldiers in battle load their guns. Most police now (as stated), and special police units, et al always carried with chambers loaded.