CQB45ACP
Member
I know but I had to buy the gauges to be sure. I’ll give the patient one more chance before I pronounce him.
Are loose primer/primer pockets dangerous?
- Thread starter CQB45ACP
- Start date
You pushed a fired primer out with a tooth pick then a live primer was a snug fit? Hmmm. More research needed. I've reloaded some very hot, max loads and the only time oversize pockets were found (when seating a live primer) were after several reloadings and firings in military surplus rifles...
On a few different occasions, I have followed the "get a gauge..." opinions and have more problems when they are used. If/when I ran into "loose" pockets it was during seating a new primer (very easy to tell by feel) and I just sat the case aside and later pushed out the primer saving it for later and tossed the case...
On a few different occasions, I have followed the "get a gauge..." opinions and have more problems when they are used. If/when I ran into "loose" pockets it was during seating a new primer (very easy to tell by feel) and I just sat the case aside and later pushed out the primer saving it for later and tossed the case...
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CQB45ACP
Member
Either 4.8gr Sport Pistol w/230gr RN or 4.5gr Bullseye w/same. Shot 55 of each not sure which these were.
thump_rrr
Member
This is the most important part.
Check your breech face for erosion.
CQB45ACP
Member
Yes did that first thing. It looks normal.
mkl
Member
It can eat up your eyeball if a rifle has a breach gas leak and you are not wearing shooting glasses!
mkl
Member
Yep. Happened to me using a surplus WW2 30-06 bolt action. Middle part of load book ladder, but in all fairness, was probably around 1962 and load book pressure testing was rather primitive. Primer pocket really enlarged and primer laying on top of magazine.
CQB45ACP
Member
Just tested pockets of cases exhibiting loose primer problem. They passed. Not the tightest but no go definitely did not fit.
Tested a few others too and they were about the same size maybe a little smaller.
So this is not great news in my book because the loose primers were caused by something else.
Tested a few others too and they were about the same size maybe a little smaller.
So this is not great news in my book because the loose primers were caused by something else.
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CQB45ACP
Member
Found the problem by attempting to seat Winchester primers in offending cases.
They won’t seat correctly. Not proud necessarily just not level/flat.
So it’s a primer pocket problem but not a diameter problem.
The primers that were loose/lost after firing were CCI. Haven’t I heard they are softer? Maybe they formed/conformed to the uneven pocket?
I say that because after I prime a case I place it on a steel plate to ensure/assure it’s seated properly. It’s part of my motion as I put a primed case in whatever container it’s going in. These latest test cases would’ve jumped out immediately, no question.
Looks like I need another tool—a uniformer. Some would say just toss the brass. Sorry, no can do.
They won’t seat correctly. Not proud necessarily just not level/flat.
So it’s a primer pocket problem but not a diameter problem.
The primers that were loose/lost after firing were CCI. Haven’t I heard they are softer? Maybe they formed/conformed to the uneven pocket?
I say that because after I prime a case I place it on a steel plate to ensure/assure it’s seated properly. It’s part of my motion as I put a primed case in whatever container it’s going in. These latest test cases would’ve jumped out immediately, no question.
Looks like I need another tool—a uniformer. Some would say just toss the brass. Sorry, no can do.
markr6754
Member
In my experience and reading, CCI primers are harder than other domestics. Federal the softest.
Lots of folks use a pocket uniformer. I don't. I try not to do anything that takes meat off the primer pockets. It's why I swage small rifle pockets rather than cut out the crimp. More meat makes me happy. I use a No-Go guage on the primer pockets and toss any that go in without resistance to the scrap jar. If there's a bit of resistance I'll still load it.
I've shot rounds with looser pockets than I'd like...without any issue. On the other hand, I have shot some 9mm Luger loads that didn't appear hot, but punctured the primer. While I thought it was my AR9 causing it...turned out to be my Springfield EMP. The breech face is fine, but the tip of the firing pin looks as if I touched it to a Dremel. Nice slanting score from the tip down about 1/32". Not happy about that...but so far it hasn't affected shooting. So yeah...beware of pressurized hot gases going the wrong way.
Last note: Unis-Ginex primers are listed as 4.5mm vs 4.4mm. I plan to get some to test whether they will give me a few more loads in small rifle cases.
Lots of folks use a pocket uniformer. I don't. I try not to do anything that takes meat off the primer pockets. It's why I swage small rifle pockets rather than cut out the crimp. More meat makes me happy. I use a No-Go guage on the primer pockets and toss any that go in without resistance to the scrap jar. If there's a bit of resistance I'll still load it.
I've shot rounds with looser pockets than I'd like...without any issue. On the other hand, I have shot some 9mm Luger loads that didn't appear hot, but punctured the primer. While I thought it was my AR9 causing it...turned out to be my Springfield EMP. The breech face is fine, but the tip of the firing pin looks as if I touched it to a Dremel. Nice slanting score from the tip down about 1/32". Not happy about that...but so far it hasn't affected shooting. So yeah...beware of pressurized hot gases going the wrong way.
Last note: Unis-Ginex primers are listed as 4.5mm vs 4.4mm. I plan to get some to test whether they will give me a few more loads in small rifle cases.
CQB45ACP
Member
Thanks
Are the primer pockets clean? I've had a few go in at funny angles because of primer residue left behind after tumbling. I hit them with the primer pocket cleaner on the prep station before I put them in the ultrasonic now. If it's new to me brass, I check it with the Ballistic Tools gauge and then use the pocket uniformer. A couple of rounds also give me trouble after swaging, so I'll follow those up with the RCBS military crimp remover, then everything runs smooth.
243winxb
Member
Try seat primer, turn 180 degrees, seat again.
RCBS Ram Prime Unit seats my primers.
I had to uniform some shallow pockets on 38 special brass.
CQB45ACP
Member
Yeah I turned and turned and applied a little pressure each time using my Redding & then a Lee. Today I’m trying again with CCI.
Thanks
CQB45ACP
Member
Clean? Oh yeah I only shoot jewelry quality. Seriously.
I’ve used the gauge as I said above and didn’t say it but also a crimp remover (it spun freely).
Im on a mission now!
Thanks
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
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- Dec 1, 2020
- Messages
- 11,086
I can’t recall the HS but I have come across some 9mm with “legs” sticking up in the pocket. Some only have one while I recall others having three but, most only have two - opposing ridges, legs, protrusions… something sticking up. The cases I’ve seen like this, the legs are only 4-5thousandths high and maybe the same width but at least 20thousandths on the long side. I will search through my untouched brass and see if I can find a couple to take pictures but it won’t be soon. I use a pocket uniforming tool and these legs are wiped out by the second twist. I am not sure if it’s a new thing but most of my range pickup brass is at least ten years old - I think?
Anyway, something to check.
CQB45ACP
Member
Thanks
I checked these particular ones so closely you’d think I actually knew what I was doing!
I just primed them with CCI primers and they worked. I had to turn em but here they are flat and ready to go. If they don’t look flat it’s the angle. They are. I’ll mark & load em and take to range for a shoot.
Blue68f100
Member
The only way to check for sure is use a straight edge, and run it across the top. It's hard to see or feel 0.001" high. Any bumping with the straight edge tells you it's high. Always seat till it bottom outs in the pocket. Only going flush is not seating the primers to the bottom of the pocket, Then you need a little more to pre-load the anvil for 100% reliability.
CQB45ACP
Member
Got you covered on all points including preload. even place on flat steel plate.
Been doing this a while that’s why it was so puzzling
jmorris
Member
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- Sep 30, 2005
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- 24,211
They can lead to breechface erosion, looks like this.
That can create quite the malfunction in AR’s too. They must be common enough that DPMS made the rug to ensure a loose primer couldn’t make its way under the trigger, disabling the firearm. Personally, I have only seen one such malfunction myself but it destroyed any chance that competitor had that day.
Some of my presses don’t allow for any “feel” of the primer being seated. All of the ammunition I load with those machines gets post load tumbled, where the loose ones fall out and set aside, before the others get boxed.
That can create quite the malfunction in AR’s too. They must be common enough that DPMS made the rug to ensure a loose primer couldn’t make its way under the trigger, disabling the firearm. Personally, I have only seen one such malfunction myself but it destroyed any chance that competitor had that day.
Some of my presses don’t allow for any “feel” of the primer being seated. All of the ammunition I load with those machines gets post load tumbled, where the loose ones fall out and set aside, before the others get boxed.
CQB45ACP
Member
Yeah I’ve seen similar pictures. Have to ensure I don’t do that to my pistols. Do you know if that damage was from just ONE incident?
I use Lee SS to prime and get good feel.
jmorris
Member
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- Sep 30, 2005
- Messages
- 24,211
Generally “just one” incidents are catastrophic in nature vs being an erosion. Just one loose primer would simply be the beginning of erosion vs the end of the gun.
I have seen other damage though.
Like this firing pin stop that eroded to this point after ~ 20,000 rounds of blazer aluminum case rounds.
This is the breechface of the same pistol now ~150k on it.
So there is probably some material/hardening factors involved as well.
I have seen other damage though.
Like this firing pin stop that eroded to this point after ~ 20,000 rounds of blazer aluminum case rounds.
This is the breechface of the same pistol now ~150k on it.
So there is probably some material/hardening factors involved as well.
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