Are S&W's marked under the grip with their frame type?
- Thread starter BhmBill
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Jim Watson
Member
Under the grips? No. Some, not all, have a serial number prefix denoting the frame size; but not enough to count on. If you look at enough guns, the differences become apparent.
JWF III
Member
If you post the model you have, I'm sure your question will be answered by several people here.
Wyman
Wyman
Jim Watson
Member
That model is on an N frame, as also used for .44s and .45s for lo, these many years.
No, Jim. We've already been through this on this thread.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=441765
He's got a mismarked 581 (mismarked in that they stamped a hyphen between the 8 and 1). It's a 357 magnum. It's a K frame.
Bill, you have a 'K' frame 581 Smith and Wesson fixed sight, blued 357 magnum with full barrel underlug in 357 magnum caliber. The factory mismarked the "581" in that they stamped a hyphen between the 8 and the 1. They do things like that sometimes.
I happen to own a model 25-2 which is a 1955 target. Only, the gun I bought was part of a lot where the guy stamping barrels that week stamped the barrels as "1950 target." I had a heck of a time figuring out what I had, but it turns out I had a mismarked gun.
I happen to own a model 25-2 which is a 1955 target. Only, the gun I bought was part of a lot where the guy stamping barrels that week stamped the barrels as "1950 target." I had a heck of a time figuring out what I had, but it turns out I had a mismarked gun.
Jim Watson
Member
I did not make the connection.
But a 581 is an L frame, not K. Like I said, you have to have seen a few guns to get acquainted with them.
But a 581 is an L frame, not K. Like I said, you have to have seen a few guns to get acquainted with them.
Pistol Toter
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You can rind some of the frame designations here:
www.handloads.com/misc/Smith.Model.Changes.asp
www.handloads.com/misc/Smith.Model.Changes.asp
So it is. And I knew that. I even posted the distinction on this thread.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=356710
So, Bill, what that means is that, on the other thread, when I discussed the forcing cone problems re the 'K' frame (since you were contemplating buying a model 19, which is a 'K' frame), that doesn't apply to your gun. The 'L' frame is beefier and isn't subject to those problems.
Pistol Toter
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Don't know how much collector you are; but a copy of The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson by Nahas and Suprica is a must if you are into S&W's.
Jim Watson
Member
It's on the L frame, dadblast it.
The bad news is that a minor mismark that would lead someone with only "58-1" to go by to think you had a .41 magnum is not going to add anything to the value. It's not like a stamp or coin that is worth more because it is wrong.
The good news is that the fixed sight L frames - 581 and 681 - are getting a cult following and are gaining in resale value just because they are not real common and have that businesslike look.
The bad news is that a minor mismark that would lead someone with only "58-1" to go by to think you had a .41 magnum is not going to add anything to the value. It's not like a stamp or coin that is worth more because it is wrong.
The good news is that the fixed sight L frames - 581 and 681 - are getting a cult following and are gaining in resale value just because they are not real common and have that businesslike look.
Well, in all fairness to the 'N' frame people, you said you had a model 58-1. The model 58 is an 'N' frame. 41 magnum. That was your fault.
I didn't see anybody post that you had a 'J' frame.
I said you had a 'K' frame. I knew better since I posted as much last year on this thread.
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=356710
But I had forgotten it.
Probably not. It's not one of those things collectors look for.
Yes, but do you know what that means?
The gun says 58-1. It S&W's fault, don't blame me!
People, outside of THR, told me it was a J frame.
No added collectors value, eh? All the more reason to carry and actually shoot it
Other than L being beefier than J and K frames, I don't know what that means. This is my first S&W.
People, outside of THR, told me it was a J frame.
No added collectors value, eh? All the more reason to carry and actually shoot it
Other than L being beefier than J and K frames, I don't know what that means. This is my first S&W.
Me neither. I don't own any newer Smiths. But it's not the whole frame that's beefier. The grip frame, for example, will use grips for 'K' frame revolvers. So, the grip frame is the same.
The only thing I know that's beefier is the top strap. The 'K' frames not only had problems with the forcing cone, but also with flame cutting the top strap. The 'K' frame top strap was, I guess, too thin for some magnum loads.
Ok, now that's funny.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
The cylinder of the L-frame is larger around then in a K-frame.
1.43" vis 1.56"
This larger frame window allows the barrel to be full diameter over the gas ring.
The K-frame had a flat milled on the bottom of the barrels forcing cone to clear the gas ring, which sometimes cracked.
rc
1.43" vis 1.56"
This larger frame window allows the barrel to be full diameter over the gas ring.
The K-frame had a flat milled on the bottom of the barrels forcing cone to clear the gas ring, which sometimes cracked.
rc
S&W did mark the grip frame sometimes with the finish that the gun left the factory with. If your 581 is Nickel finished (or originally left the factory that way regardless of what it is now), and you pulled off the grips, the grip frame would probably have a large capital "N" stamped on there. This refers to the factory finish, not the frame size. Stainless guns had an "S" and blue guns usually had no stamp at all.
It wasn't the top strap that was the problem, it was the forcing cone diameter and the amount of frame around the barrel as rcmodel said. The extra 1/8" diameter cylinder also necessitated making the frame window 1/8" taller, of course, and this resulted in extra steel around the barrel threads and especially directly below them, where it was thin.
The L frame debuted in 1980. So it's going on 30 years old - plenty of time to get acquinted - it's no "newcomer"!
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thank you sirs.
Regarding the OP, the grip frame has a big "K" stamped on it along with the same numbers that the cylinder crane has. There's also, what appears to be, a little crown stamped on it.
I was just wondering if the K referred to what frame type it was, pardon my ignorance.
Thank you again
Regarding the OP, the grip frame has a big "K" stamped on it along with the same numbers that the cylinder crane has. There's also, what appears to be, a little crown stamped on it.
I was just wondering if the K referred to what frame type it was, pardon my ignorance.
Thank you again
Those are meaningless numbers - they only relate to each other. They are called "assembly numbers" and are to mate a crane/cylinder assembly to a frame after they have been hand fit. That way if they are separated for finishing or any other reason, they can be mated together again w/o worry of parts mis-match.
I see how the "K" confused you since it was also a frame size. But no, there was never a pattern of marking frame size on the gun, only s/n, assembly numbers, finish type, and occasionally other odd assembly stamps or refinish-stamps.
I saw your pics in the other thread and what you have is a Blued-steel 4" S&W model 581 with some aftermarket pachmayr grips, it appears, like the other posters stated.
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