Are Shockwaves Now SBS?

[D.B. Cooper]

I hate to say I told you so, but...

I saw this coming the day they announced the Shockwave. I never believed that gun didn't violate the NFA, and I said so in previous posts here. (one of a few reasons I didn't buy one.)

Today, according to Jarrod over at Guns N Gadgets, the Shockwave, and similar, are caught up int he pistol brace ruling. He's saying the ATF is saying that all previous letters and rulings on pistol grip shotguns are invalid and said guns must be resubmitted for evaluation.

I get that people, myself included, doin't like the law, but all of these efforts to circumvent it are starting to come home to roost. Either that, or, given the Bruen decision, ATF is about to take bite out of a giant poop sandwich.

 

[12Bravo20]

Good old Chicken Little from Guns and Gadgets yet again spreading fear and misinformation.

No the Shockwave is NOT an NFA item as it came from the factory!

What has changed is the classification of all non NFA smoothbore firearms such as the Shockwave, TAC14 and similar if and only if they have a brace attached to them. This has been discussed in the numerous threads going on about the brace rule.

First we need to discuss the legal definitions of a pistol, rifle, and non NFA AOW.

• The legal definition of a pistol is that it is designed to be shot using one hand.
• The legal definition of a rifle is that it is designed to be shot using two hands AND has a shoulder stock that rests against the users shoulder
• The legal definition of a firearm designed to be shot using two hands but does NOT have a shoulder stock nor was it designed to have a shoulder stock.

Now let's look at the Shockwave and similar and how they fit into the scheme of things. These types of firearms do NOT meet the definition of a shotgun since they were never designed to be shot from the shoulder and the barrels are under 18" in OAL. AS such, they do NOT meet the definition of a shotgun, hence they are classified as a NON NFA regulated AOW or more commonly called a "firearm"

Now onto the brace rule and what the Factoring Criteria document has to say about smoothbore firearms. The ATF has stated that since these are NOT pistols and they are designed to be shot using two hands. The ATF states that the presence of a brace means that they are redesigned and intended to be shot from the shoulder. Which would mean that they are a short barreled shotgun.

Here is what the ATF states concerning smoothbore firearms and braces. This found on page 47 of the Factoring Criteria document.



https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regul...armswithattachedstabilizingbracespdf/download

As you can see, once the rule actually goes into effect, then braced smooth bore firearms will be illegal since they do not meet the definition of a pistol.

Smoothbore firearms such as the Shockwave and TAC14 will still remain legal to own if they are in their factory configuration with the birds head grip in place.

 

[L-2]

Post 2, thank you very much for the cogent explanation/clarification.
Note, REMARMS no longer has its "Tac 14 Arm Brace" version on its website and, just now, I didn't see any at a glance on GunBroker.com. I don't know if REMARMS was quick to respond to the changing rulings; supply issues; or if it's just part of its normal product line changes by deleting the subject product.
ref. https://www.remarms.com/other-products/model-870-tac-14-arm-brace

Also, I didn't see any shotgun/non-NFA firearm products on the SB-TACTICAL.com website. Perhaps the product line was discontinued anyway whether due to lack of demand or other business issues.
https://www.sb-tactical.com/

FYI, I bought a Tac-14 w/Arm Brace, prior to REMARMS taking over. Personally, I determined I didn't like the arm-brace for few reasons, so I paid my money, did my wait time, and converted the firearm to an SBS. It was a bit of time and money but eventually went through as ATF was having some administrative/technical issues (probably still are) at that time for electronically-submitted Form 1s.

 

[jmorris]

Well, I suppose the good news is we now have a lot of new owners that might get pissed off enough to vote for a change worth having…

As much as that s a negative for them, it could be a positive for us as a whole. Especially now that people have been using them for some time now without them being any issue of concern.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Well, I suppose the good news is we now have a lot of new owners that might get pissed off enough to vote for a change worth having…

I don't think it's an issue of getting more gun owners to the polls. We're pretty much tapped out there. Gun owners are the most reliable block of voters I know of; we're all already voting in every election.

 

[jmorris]

We had a pretty huge addition to the family that was part of the intensity of this last panic we are exiting.

If they see stupid, especially if it has direct effect on them, we have more backing, not less.

The “guns are evil, kids can’t even point their fingers anymore” crowd is what was want fewer of.

 

[Charlie98]

Gun owners are the most reliable block of voters I know of

The True Believer Leftists are a pretty reliable block of voters, too... some of them vote more than once, and some even when deceased.

 

[dogtown tom]

........First we need to discuss the legal definitions of a pistol, rifle, and non NFA AOW.

• The legal definition of a pistol is that it is designed to be shot using one hand.
• The legal definition of a rifle is that it is designed to be shot using two hands AND has a shoulder stock that rests against the users shoulder
• The legal definition of a non NFA AOW is a firearm designed to be shot using two hands but does NOT have a shoulder stock nor was it designed to have a shoulder stock.

Where did you get these definitions? I ask because they sure as heck aren't the definitions ATF uses......these are: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-27/chapter-II/subchapter-B/part-478/subpart-B
Pistol-A weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having
(a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and
(b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s).

Rifle- A weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

Non NFA AOW......has no legal definition because there is no such thing defined in federal law or ATF regs.

The Mossberg Shockwave and Remington TAC 14 are not "non NFA AOW's, but simply "firearms". because they do not meet the definition of pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, etc.

Now let's look at the Shockwave and similar and how they fit into the scheme of things. These types of firearms do NOT meet the definition of a shotgun since they were never designed to be shot from the shoulder and the barrels are under 18" in OAL. AS such, they do NOT meet the definition of a shotgun, hence they are classified as a NON NFA regulated AOW or more commonly called a "firearm"

No, just "Firearm".
Whoever told you they were classified as "non NFA AOW" hasn't read the regs or the 4473.

 

[12Bravo20]

They are still considered as Any Other Weapon by the ATF since they do not meet the definition of a pistol, rifle or shotgun. And since they are over 26" in overall length, they are not considered concealable hence them being a NON NFA item.

I guess I just need to stop posting all together on this forum since I seem to be wrong and get jumped on lately. I will see myself to the door.

 

[rust collector]

Bravo, thank you for trying to make sense of this mess. Unfortunately, when we paraphrase to try to simplify we introduce more opportunities for misunderstanding. This all started with the ATF trying to flex some things to help a select few folks out. Now they are trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle and we need to make sure we use the actual language of the law and the rule. The laws and rules are often harsh and unpleasant but we have to deal with them as they are, unless/until they are overturned or superseded.

 

[12Bravo20]

@rust collector, thank you for the kind words. And yes I was only trying to make things as simple as possible so everyone could understand.

 

[westernrover]

Cool. Not to be a pedantic nag, but when you wrote, "braced smooth bore firearms will be illegal," what I think you meant was that they will be legal as items registered with the BATFE under the provisions of the NFA.

 

[12Bravo20]

Cool. Not to be a pedantic nag, but when you wrote, "braced smooth bore firearms will be illegal," what I think you meant was that they will be legal as items registered with the BATFE under the provisions of the NFA.

Let me apologize for any confusion.

As of today a smooth bore firearm such as the Mossberg Shockwave are now illegal if they have a brace installed AND they are NOT registered as a SBS. And per the ATF and the new brace rule, a smooth bore firearm does NOT qualify for the tax exempt Form 1.

 

[N555]

Same as pistols. As long as your tac14 or shock wave was never a shotgun, doesn't have a brace and still has that almost useless birds head grip it will remain a weird firearm that is fired 2 handed but not from the shoulder.
I have tried a Shockwave, a pistol grip sbs and a full stock sbs. Full stock is the way to go.

 

[dogtown tom]

They are still considered as Any Other Weapon by the ATF since they do not meet the definition of a pistol, rifle or shotgun.

Absolutely 100% wrong. An AOW or "Any Other Weapon" is an NFA firearm and defined as:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-27/chapter-II/subchapter-B/part-479/subpart-B
Any other weapon. Any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

The Mossberg Shockwave is NOT an NFA AOW because it does not meet the above definition.
The Mossberg Shockwave IS a Title I "firearm" as defined:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-27/chapter-II/subchapter-B/part-478/subpart-B
Firearm. Any weapon, including a starter gun, which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or any destructive device; but the term shall not include an antique firearm. In the case of a licensed collector, the term shall mean only curios and relics. The term shall include a weapon parts kit that is designed to or may readily be completed, assembled, restored, or otherwise converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive. The term shall not include a weapon, including a weapon parts kit, in which the frame or receiver of such weapon is destroyed as described in the definition “frame or receiver”.

And since they are over 26" in overall length, they are not considered concealable hence them being a NON NFA item.

Again, they are "Non NFA" because they are not AOW's.
No where in any Mossberg literature will you see them described as an AOW or "Non NFA AOW".

ATF in their determination letter NEVER refers to the Mossberg Shockwave as an "AOW or "non NFA AOW".......and specifically refers to it as a "firearm".
Further, that 2017 ATF determination letter ends with:

....The Mossberg, model 590, serial number V0348718 as described above, is a "firearm" subject to GCA provisions; however, it is not a "firearm" as defined by the NFA [and thus is not subject to registration]. Please note that if the subject firearm is concealed on a person, the classification with regard to the NFA may change.

Calling a Mossberg Shockwave an "nonNFA AOW" is misleading at best, nonsensical at worst. Further writing "they are not considered concealable hence them being a NON NFA item" is clearly at odds with what ATF has written.