Arizona becomes more anti-gun!

[Zoogster]

Well not exactly, considering it just passed some of the strongest firearm freedoms in the nation.


The subject I was considering is the passage of the legislation that allows everyone to carry concealed with no permit or license requirements. A previous privilege that has become a freedom in Arizona.

While that is great, I cannot help but wonder how it impacts open carry.
Currently Arizona is one of the only places in the nation where walking down the street even in the city with an open carried handgun is unremarkable.
There is other places with this freedom, but in most of them it is remarkable, and is quite noticed. Resulting in commentary on the gun by some who both support or disapprove.
In Arizona it is like a wallet or cell phone, and results in almost nothing. The occasional comment from someone from out of the state being most likely.
This means the people of Arizona have been groomed by the presence of firearms into seeing them as an everyday item. A common tool.

But now everyone can carry concealed (except for those 18-21, meaning the primarily people who still open carry may be in this young group, representing gun owners.)
I do not think this legislation is going to change the amount of people who carry firearms much if at all, considering everyone already could carry. But it may have a significant impact on the number who open carry.

After years of few people open carrying because everyone can freely carry concealed I imagine those who actually do open carry some years in the future may be much more noticed than currently.
That the members of the population that do not carry openly or concealed may become less familiar with firearms in public, and as a result be groomed to be slightly more anti.

Nobody knows the person standing next to them in public is carrying concealed. Concealed firearms are a statistic to the public, only available if they look it up, and impersonal.
Open Carry is boldly there, and makes a clear statement that firearms are around you every day causing no trouble carried by responsible citizens.
It is very personal, and contrast the news reports of criminals misusing firearms.


What do you think? Will Arizona be more anti in 10 years as the public no longer sees many open carried firearms and open carry goes from common to rare?
Will police start getting "man with a gun" calls in 10 years after people grow up or move to AZ with little or no experience with open carry? Will it once again be something that has strong emotional responses?
Or what about the fact that the only significant age bracket representing firearms with open carry will be 18-21, which is not typically an age group you want solely representing anything! (No offense to those who are responsible in that age bracket.)
Will it lose that unique quality where firearms in public are totally unremarkable, which contributes to a generally positive firearm outlook by those who do not carry openly or concealed?
Will Arizona lose a quality that greatly contributes to it being so pro-firearm as firearms and carry take a more hidden and shadowy existence like they do most other places?

 

[F40]

I don't think it will change squat, a lot of people with CCW permits still open carry on a regular basis, and we have open carry dinners every month, nothing is going to change, except for the amount of women that will now carry a gun in their purse.

All of the anti's are on their way out of the state anyways, thankfully. A lot of the left wing are on their way out since SB1070 was signed yesterday by th governor, and they don't like that. AZ is slowly turning into paradise.

 

[Zack]

AZ is slowly turning into paradise.

I wish more states would.

 

[General Geoff]

I don't think it will change squat, a lot of people with CCW permits still open carry on a regular basis, and we have open carry dinners every month, nothing is going to change, except for the amount of women that will now carry a gun in their purse.

Furthermore, those who already carry in a set pattern, aren't likely to change their wardrobe, holster and carry style just because of a law that's been passed. This is far more likely to affect minors who are just now becoming adults, and adults who will soon be 21. And if what you say is true about open carry in Arizona, I don't see any reason why a person who's been open carrying for three years (between 18 and 21), suddenly concealing just because they can, on their 21st birthday. Open carry is generally much more comfortable, especially in a warm clime like Arizona.

 

[ArmedBear]

Idaho's CWL is not especially difficult to get. Essentially everyone who is interested in carrying a gun for self-defense or on the trail, has a permit (at least this is what conversations with people I know, and the surprise of gun shop employees when someone obviously familiar with guns doesn't have a permit).

However, OC is still practiced here. Not all guns are comfortable to conceal, and not all purposes for a gun can be satisfied with a .380 or J-frame. Also, it's part of the culture. AFAIK most of Arizona is proud to be the West.

I honestly don't think that OC in AZ will disappear.

 

[lkbenson]

My son brought up the possibility that with no permit to carry concealed there will be no recoprocity with other states so a person that used to have a license could carry in say Colorado but will no longer be able to do so because Colorado will not recognize their permit (or lack of one as the case may be)

 

[General Geoff]

The permit has not been eliminated; it has merely been made optional.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

So wont the people who teach CCW classes be loosing a good amount of business from this?

I think unlicensed carry is fine, but I wonder if the guys who were making money from the licensing process are a bit miffed?

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Permits are soon (I hope) going to be something that is geared more towards people who travel a alot. Like me (OTR truck driver), by having the requirement for a permit the state offers assurance that you have taken and passed all the required tests and checks.

I understand the concept of the permit in that context...one state cannot say what is legal in another state.

 

[General Geoff]

RevolvingGarbage, yes some of the instructors were against the passage of this bill. They also confirmed themselves to be pro-extortion and as such their businesses should be avoided at all costs.

Running a business to provide a government mandated but unnecessary service, and complaining when the government considers lifting that mandate, is reprehensible.

 

[svaz]

As someone has already mentioned, OC is more comfortable than CC so those who already OC will likely continue, or, maybe just stop worrying that their shirt may cover their weapon.

I don't think those that were not previously inclined to CC will rush out to do so just because they can - after all, they could already OC, but chose not to.

It makes my life a little easier cause now I can just discretely slip on my SIG when we take the kids for a walk through the countryside without my wife getting all bent about the kids seeing the gun (she's not anti, just a little more irrational around the kids.)

I suppose, however, that if carry becomes common enough and crime drops enough THEN people stop carrying AND if the Country loses it's mind, like it did in the 90's, enough people might have taken these freedoms for granted and the time may be ripe for another AWB or something similar. I say this only because my vigilance, through the Clinton years, dropped to nothing and apathy during the Bush years [shame on me].

 

[SouthernBoy]

Open carry is a non-issue and therefore, almost always a non-event in Virginia. I have carried open every day for the past three years and have only had one negative encounter - a citizen in a McDonald's who I would bet was not a native of the state.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

God Bless this Great State!

 

[TIMC]

I am from Texas and have my CHL but spent 5 months last year in the Phoenix area and never saw anyone open carry. I just go back Phoenix early this week and today I saw my first open carry at a gas station while I was fueling my truck.

No one seemed to care this guy was carrying even though he looked a lot on the gang banger side with dreadlocks, giant necklace and droopy pants. I watched him as he walked around (trying to sell music CD's).

My only thought was with the holster he was using and the way he had his belt slung loose I was sure I could draw my Kimber Pro Raptor out of my IWB holster and deploy it way before he could get his out of the holster.

I do not think I would open carry here even though I can. I prefer to have supprise on my side.

 

[Sharpie1]

RevolvingGarbage, yes some of the instructors were against the passage of this bill. They also confirmed themselves to be pro-extortion and as such their businesses should be avoided at all costs.

Running a business to provide a government mandated but unnecessary service, and complaining when the government considers lifting that mandate, is reprehensible.

I agree completely. I am an instructor in Virginia and most of my students attend my courses to qualify for the CHP. Nevertheless, I am very much in favor of Virginia removing the CHP law - since this is a tax and limitation of freedom.

 

[pty101]

I dont think it will really change anything. And I wish I could join you all in the paradise of AZ

 

[Old Fuff]

The only thing that is going to change Arizona's pro-gun attitude is the unfortunate influx of liberals coming from California. The combination of hot weather and large handguns will insure that open carry continues, especially in rural areas.

 

[armoredman]

Yes, my point, too, some find it difficult to conceal during the hot months, (most of the year, ) and carry openly. Yes, it is normal in AZ, been doing it myself since I was 16, (legal back then), until 1994, when I got my permit. I just have gone to lenghts to get a wardrobe and holsters than aid in easy conealment even when it's 120 outside...and that ain't easy!
BTW, you know all those people with gorgeous tans running around out here? Tourists, every one of them, because us pasty white native Arizonans stay inside, where the AC is!

 

[Blue .45]

Will non-residents be allowed to carry a concealed weapon without a permit?

Threads like this make me hate Illinois more and more. :banghead:

 

[General Geoff]

Will non-residents be allowed to carry a concealed weapon without a permit?

All U.S. Citizens are covered.

 

[Clifford]

That's a good question blue.45, I'm afraid I can't anwser it thou. I wouldn't be suprised if non-residents are allowed simply due to the large number of snowbirds here in the winter months. I think it would be acceptible to allow the snowbirds to CC seeing as most of them are here for 3-5 months out of the year. Also many are older and it would allow them to properly defend themselves.

Phoenix has the WORLDS 2nd highest kidnapping rate. Anyone, especially an older and possibly physically weak person should have the right to defend against the kind of scum that has been crossing the border lately.

 

[Blue .45]

All U.S. Citizens are covered.

That's good news. The second amendment SHOULD be our concealed carry permit. Hopefully, other states will soon follow suite.

We here, in Illinois, have a lot of work to do, beginning in November.

 

[tpaw]

I applaud Arizona's governor for having the guts to sign into law the new bill about gun ownership and carry rights. Bravo!!!!!!
The only thing I'm fearful of is the ACLU filing civil rights law suits concerning the right to question suspected illegal's. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it. I just hope the police develop the proper suspicion and reasonable cause to do so. I don't want to see Arizona going bust financially in court.
Carry on big "A", you got my vote!.........

 

[F40]

I think you're confusing two different bills, constitutional carry and SB1070 are two different animals.

 

[armoredman]

The immigration law is well covered to keep officers going over the line, even states officers who act in bad faith are on thier own. It also states officers must be conducting a lawful contact, not just fishing. The Governor also made an executive order requiring all law enforcement agencies to immediately begin training all officers on how to use the law so as NOT to violate civil rights. That will be interesting. The ACLU will have fun trying, but I don't see them winning.
As for the Consitutional Carry, yes in AZ the 2A is your CCW permit.