At DEFCON last year, they were able to read RFID tags at a record distance of 69 feet. http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2005/07/_defcon_rfid_wo.html
What makes me think this record will not stand for long.....
As a gunowner, I would get an RFID chip implant if...
- Thread starter Thin Black Line
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At DEFCON last year, they were able to read RFID tags at a record distance of 69 feet. http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2005/07/_defcon_rfid_wo.html
What makes me think this record will not stand for long.....
OrvilleYertleson
Member.
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What kind of answer do you really expect from those on this board?
Thin Black Line
Member
More than 8% would take the chip and I suspect the number would be
much higher among the non-firearm owners of the public.
What if the feds throw in a $1000 pre-paid debit card for Big-Mart?
much higher among the non-firearm owners of the public.
What if the feds throw in a $1000 pre-paid debit card for Big-Mart?
Nicky Santoro
Member
As a gunowner, I would get an RFID chip implant if...
Hell froze over
Hell froze over
Haymaker
Member
Oh, I DON'T THINK SO!!
All of my CCW's are already on a few govt. 'lists'
The rest are:
1. Stainless Steel (including the mags.) and 'unaccountable'
2. Too old to have a paperwork 'trail' and also 'unaccountable'
All of my CCW's are already on a few govt. 'lists'
The rest are:
1. Stainless Steel (including the mags.) and 'unaccountable'
2. Too old to have a paperwork 'trail' and also 'unaccountable'
madmike
Member
Two notes at a slight tangent:
Hackworth was a great man and a good investigator. He called a great many shots right. He also called a great many shots wrong. (Heck, he supported WESLEY CLARK's campaign.) That he endorsed something doesn't make it correct.
The anthrax vaccine (which I've had. Yawn.) is the SAME anthrax vaccine that's been used by veterinary and other animal workers since 1970. All the crap about it polluting people's precious, bodily fluids is just that: crap. PS: It also won't work on weaponized anthrax, which is why it's not in use at present (though it may have come back again due to further political idiocy. Last I heard it was stopped).
On topic:
At present, I can't think of any way to enforce RFID compliance in the US. If people can refuse common vaccines (And I WISH people would properly call them "inocculations") on religious grounds, and they do, and can have veiled photos on drivers' licenses, and they do, then anyone can refuse to accept a chip on the same grounds. At worst, I'll join the local Pentecostal church and attend a few services to "prove" I have a religious objection. And enough people WILL refuse that the system will not be universal. Once its realized that someone will have to man the door, check the ID, etc, especially with all the haxx0rs spoofing them, they'll disappear. A fad and a stupid one.
It's universal in a couple of my books. I suppose eventually that might be the case. But there will STILL be ways around it. What am I bid for a clean chip from a slight "injury" I suffered?
Did anyone else hear that the FBI was using Onstar to surveil people and made a few busts? Still want to get it for your car?
Hackworth was a great man and a good investigator. He called a great many shots right. He also called a great many shots wrong. (Heck, he supported WESLEY CLARK's campaign.) That he endorsed something doesn't make it correct.
The anthrax vaccine (which I've had. Yawn.) is the SAME anthrax vaccine that's been used by veterinary and other animal workers since 1970. All the crap about it polluting people's precious, bodily fluids is just that: crap. PS: It also won't work on weaponized anthrax, which is why it's not in use at present (though it may have come back again due to further political idiocy. Last I heard it was stopped).
On topic:
At present, I can't think of any way to enforce RFID compliance in the US. If people can refuse common vaccines (And I WISH people would properly call them "inocculations") on religious grounds, and they do, and can have veiled photos on drivers' licenses, and they do, then anyone can refuse to accept a chip on the same grounds. At worst, I'll join the local Pentecostal church and attend a few services to "prove" I have a religious objection. And enough people WILL refuse that the system will not be universal. Once its realized that someone will have to man the door, check the ID, etc, especially with all the haxx0rs spoofing them, they'll disappear. A fad and a stupid one.
It's universal in a couple of my books. I suppose eventually that might be the case. But there will STILL be ways around it. What am I bid for a clean chip from a slight "injury" I suffered?
Did anyone else hear that the FBI was using Onstar to surveil people and made a few busts? Still want to get it for your car?
madmike
Member
I'm not sure what good a chip does against kidnapping, since you'd have to be within feet of the person to ID them. Nor am I sure why anyone would want to kidnap a Mexican official. Sounds like an attempt to intimidate their peasants.
The new US military ID cards have major medical data and such BARCODED on the back for easy access, and an ACCESS CHIP to government computers. Of course, they've also been proven to be incredibly easy to forge visually for access or illicit booze purchasing, so expect some changes shortly.
Thin Black Line
Member
MM,
I would expect that human use of RFID implants will create two tiers of
so-called "citizenship." People will still be able to refuse them in the future
and they may very well end up living like the Amish or the savages in the
hinterlands of Brave New World, ie, you will not have access to many public
utilities, computer networks, transportation, etc out of interest in protecting
"public security."
But, yes, you will still be free to attend your Church and you will still have
access to very basic things such as food and water.
I would expect that human use of RFID implants will create two tiers of
so-called "citizenship." People will still be able to refuse them in the future
and they may very well end up living like the Amish or the savages in the
hinterlands of Brave New World, ie, you will not have access to many public
utilities, computer networks, transportation, etc out of interest in protecting
"public security."
But, yes, you will still be free to attend your Church and you will still have
access to very basic things such as food and water.
madmike
Member
Thin Black Line: I really don't see that anytime in the next 50-100 years. While a number of people would jump on RFID for "Safety," (I'd say 20%), a good number of people would not because of the "surgery," even if it's minor, for personal reasons or from fear of being controlled by the chip. And almost no one would approve of forcing it on others. Then there's the civil rights issue--the Amish DO manage to live by their own rules by and large, and are left alone by the government, also by and large. At worst, it would create very large groups of people with religious objections that could not be ignored.
Implementation would probably start with prisoners for purposes of tracking in prison--have a sensor in each location they barrrack and work and it would be easier to track them...until they figure out a way to spoof the mechanism. Then police and other security personnel.
But as has been observed, these things are hackable if they are programmable, and would be so at once. They would be obsolete before accomplishing anything. Think about how fast cars and computers are outdated. This isn't a chip one puts in and leaves for 90 years. It would have to be replaced every 5 years or so, maybe more often. It's a little more than just a shot.
As has been noted, there are far more efficient, and once set up cheaper, ways of monitoring people. They already exist, and there's little objection, though there should be.
Implementation would probably start with prisoners for purposes of tracking in prison--have a sensor in each location they barrrack and work and it would be easier to track them...until they figure out a way to spoof the mechanism. Then police and other security personnel.
But as has been observed, these things are hackable if they are programmable, and would be so at once. They would be obsolete before accomplishing anything. Think about how fast cars and computers are outdated. This isn't a chip one puts in and leaves for 90 years. It would have to be replaced every 5 years or so, maybe more often. It's a little more than just a shot.
As has been noted, there are far more efficient, and once set up cheaper, ways of monitoring people. They already exist, and there's little objection, though there should be.
Thin Black Line
Member
How severe should the penalties be for someone who: duplicates a valid
ID # or creates a false one (both are really easy to detect on a central
monitoring system)?
Lackey: "Sir, I have a new cloned ID that was just detected in Seattle." (looking at flashing dot on street map of Seattle on his left screen).
Sector Boss: "Where's the original dot?"
Lackey: (looks at screen to his right with another flashing dot) "Chicago."
Sector Boss: (sips coffee) "Detain them both."
Lackey: "Yes, sir."
ID # or creates a false one (both are really easy to detect on a central
monitoring system)?
Lackey: "Sir, I have a new cloned ID that was just detected in Seattle." (looking at flashing dot on street map of Seattle on his left screen).
Sector Boss: "Where's the original dot?"
Lackey: (looks at screen to his right with another flashing dot) "Chicago."
Sector Boss: (sips coffee) "Detain them both."
Lackey: "Yes, sir."
madmike
Member
Yup, because detaining spurious signals is way more important and less dangerous than murderers...
Thin Black Line
Member
That's right, Mike, and I've seen the alleged meth (use to be crack) houses
raided the same day some "anonymous tip" was received while the perps of
child sexual abuse, rape, domestic violence, home invasion, etc seem to
be further down the list of priorities.
Real CONversation:
TBL: "Why hasn't so-n-so been picked up yet for molesting those kids?"
LEO: "Not enough evidence."
TBL: "What about our taped statements --are you saying a victim's
statements aren't enough to make an arrest or at least try asking him
some questions about it?"
LEO: "No, but we have other things higher on our list to get to this
week. I might talk to him next week"
TBL: "There haven't been any murders here in XX weeks." (Yeah, I know
this really pisses off LEOs and is forbidden to address while trying to
maintain polite relations, but I really couldn't give a crap when it comes
to kids being left hanging....)
LEO: "We have a drug problem here, too, you know. That alone leads
to a lot of our other problems we're trying to deal with." (Good counter,
but
TBL: "I agree. But you guys took 24 officers to raid a house yesterday
the same day that anonymous tip was received. You didn't even find
anything there. That was just based on someone's word, right? I'm
asking for ONE to go check out this alleged perp."
LEO: "I gotta go...."
So, yes, MM, the dots will be more important.
raided the same day some "anonymous tip" was received while the perps of
child sexual abuse, rape, domestic violence, home invasion, etc seem to
be further down the list of priorities.
Real CONversation:
TBL: "Why hasn't so-n-so been picked up yet for molesting those kids?"
LEO: "Not enough evidence."
TBL: "What about our taped statements --are you saying a victim's
statements aren't enough to make an arrest or at least try asking him
some questions about it?"
LEO: "No, but we have other things higher on our list to get to this
week. I might talk to him next week"
TBL: "There haven't been any murders here in XX weeks." (Yeah, I know
this really pisses off LEOs and is forbidden to address while trying to
maintain polite relations, but I really couldn't give a crap when it comes
to kids being left hanging....)
LEO: "We have a drug problem here, too, you know. That alone leads
to a lot of our other problems we're trying to deal with." (Good counter,
but
TBL: "I agree. But you guys took 24 officers to raid a house yesterday
the same day that anonymous tip was received. You didn't even find
anything there. That was just based on someone's word, right? I'm
asking for ONE to go check out this alleged perp."
LEO: "I gotta go...."
So, yes, MM, the dots will be more important.
Carl N. Brown
Member
Noticed an item in the paper the other day
that ID chip implants in pets have been linked
to cancer.
that ID chip implants in pets have been linked
to cancer.
Evil Monkey
member
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2006
- Messages
- 1,486
I got your implanting right here.
Ain't NEVER going to happen me.
Ain't NEVER going to happen me.
Professor K
Member
I'd probably get it, exacto it out, and then get a tattoo over the scar. And if it's set to explode, that's not a big deal, considering it's a small chip.
I wouldnt get the chip if it was the kind that circulates though your bloodstream, but if it was the bigger kind, I could take that out myself later, but save myself the hassle of shooting/getting shot at people putting the chip in me.
Passive noncompliance has always been my way of doing things....
Also, you can fry RFIDs with enough microwaves. I read on forums in the past, of scenarios with all products having RFID chips in them, and the scenario was that some teenager would just get a magnetron out of a microwave and put it in walmart, and watch the fun begin as all the prices go away.
I wouldnt get the chip if it was the kind that circulates though your bloodstream, but if it was the bigger kind, I could take that out myself later, but save myself the hassle of shooting/getting shot at people putting the chip in me.
Passive noncompliance has always been my way of doing things....
Also, you can fry RFIDs with enough microwaves. I read on forums in the past, of scenarios with all products having RFID chips in them, and the scenario was that some teenager would just get a magnetron out of a microwave and put it in walmart, and watch the fun begin as all the prices go away.
Bartholomew Roberts
Member
No longer on topic for Legal.
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