Corpral_Agarn
Member
Happened to me with at carbine not too long ago:
Always wear the eyepro...
Always wear the eyepro...
As I removed my blood-soaked hand from my face...
- Thread starter Elkins45
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Thanks for the reply. I've seen lots of weird stuff happen over the years and even had some happen to me. Some of the biggest problems occur when youngsters "help" loading ammo. One I knew about was when a bullet fell through when the kid put it in the case, so the kid seated another on top of it. That's why I've carefully watched kids load ammo and don't let them load a lot of rounds, when their concentration can wander.
AJC1
Member
My 11yo helps me, but I'm single stage and watching like a hawk. I do not let him prime because I consider it the most dangerous step. I also let him watch a ton of YouTube mishaps to make him aware of the importance of each step. Most often I have him sizing brass.
AJC1
Member
I don't think anything manufactured in the United States right now uses anything other than boxer primers but I don't use any foreign ammo for that reason
Great picture! Was the bolt closed when the round went off?
Corpral_Agarn
Member
turns out it was not LOL
LiveLife
Member
How about using left-handed upper receiver?
https://www.brownells.com/rifle-par...ver-assembly-5-56mm-left-hand-prod113495.aspx
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LiveLife
Member
Hogwash.
My Just Right carbine has ambi ejection port to set up for right or left ejection of spent cases - https://www.justrightcarbines.com/w...arbine-Manual-Master-Version-02-01-2017-1.pdf
"CHANGING DIRECTION OF EJECTION - A UNIQUE FEATURE OF THE J R CARBINE IS THAT IT IS TRULY AMBIDEXTROUS AND CAN BE SET UP FOR EITHER RIGHT-SIDE OR LEFT-SIDE EJECTION AS THE SHOOTER DESIRES. TO CHANGE EJECTION DIRECTION ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS SWITCH THE EJECTOR FROM ONE SIDE OF THE BOLT TO THE OTHER."
And there are other left/ambi ejection carbines/rifles - https://www.gunmann.com/left-handed-ar-15-rifles/
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Taurus 617 CCW
Member
I saw that happen one time with a carbon fiber upper and lower AR-15. The only thing I could make of it was a dirty chamber caused an out of battery discharge. The upper on the carbon finer gun didn’t fare so well and basically blew apart. Even a 9mm had a lot of power behind it. It wasn’t my gun btw.
bfoosh006
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I have often wonder if this a result of "bolt bounce" and pulled trigger timing.
Trigger being pulled at just the right moment , while the bolt is bouncing off the breach face.
I have also experienced this, in my 9x19 Colt Pattern AR.... Once, with Winc. Super Clean 90gr ( copper jacketed zinc bullet ) Although the bullet discharged into the bores rifling, but burst the brass case.
It wasn't a massive case failure... and made me wonder if it was a low charge weight of powder from the factory round.
Good thing it burst and fizzled out... otherwise I may not have noticed, and fired another round behind it.
Since that incident... I keep my Blowback actions very clean in the chamber.
Trigger being pulled at just the right moment , while the bolt is bouncing off the breach face.
I have also experienced this, in my 9x19 Colt Pattern AR.... Once, with Winc. Super Clean 90gr ( copper jacketed zinc bullet ) Although the bullet discharged into the bores rifling, but burst the brass case.
It wasn't a massive case failure... and made me wonder if it was a low charge weight of powder from the factory round.
Good thing it burst and fizzled out... otherwise I may not have noticed, and fired another round behind it.
Since that incident... I keep my Blowback actions very clean in the chamber.
that looks way more bullet setback than out of battery. I had that happen and blow a primer in a CZ. Blaser cases (both kinds) have very weak neck tension, and setback is common. Its not really a problem with factory loads, but can be with reloads.
jmorris
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The aluminum case ammunition has awful neck tension and setback is not unheard of.
Add that to a case that doesn’t have a lot of volume and “kabooms” can happen.
Not to cause panic from aluminum case shooters but the primers also don’t have the same amount of seal in the pocket so hot gasses go into the breechface and firing pin hole.
This is a Springfield 1911 firingpin stop after 25,000 rounds of aluminum blazer rounds.
photobucket hijacked my better video on the subject but I still have some to demonstrate how bad they are and chambered this one a few minutes ago. Goes in looking good and is buckled coming out.
That visual is all they are good for, for me, any more. I can’t lie though, I have shot many, many thousands of them before I had my “keepers”.
Add that to a case that doesn’t have a lot of volume and “kabooms” can happen.
Not to cause panic from aluminum case shooters but the primers also don’t have the same amount of seal in the pocket so hot gasses go into the breechface and firing pin hole.
This is a Springfield 1911 firingpin stop after 25,000 rounds of aluminum blazer rounds.
photobucket hijacked my better video on the subject but I still have some to demonstrate how bad they are and chambered this one a few minutes ago. Goes in looking good and is buckled coming out.
That visual is all they are good for, for me, any more. I can’t lie though, I have shot many, many thousands of them before I had my “keepers”.
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Well thanks for sharing. One time a buddy shot me point blank in the face with a BB gun and that BB embedded in my bone. I guess we knew there was still metal in there when the sore was still angry a day or two later. They got it out with some big long tweezers at the Docs office. That was 1/4" south of my eye.
This is why we wear eyepro
entropy
Member
Some Berdan, some Boxer. I have some .45ACP Boxer (Small pistol) sized and primed for when I get a .45 ACP revolver, or I really, really need them for my 1911......
Demi-human
maybe likes firearms a little bit…
Thankfully you are "none the worse for the wear".
Unfortunately, this type of thing comes up whenever I start to think about a nine carbine.
Fortunately, a couple more scars wouldn't make me any uglier!
I'm packing up the med kit this afternoon...
Unfortunately, this type of thing comes up whenever I start to think about a nine carbine.
Fortunately, a couple more scars wouldn't make me any uglier!
I'm packing up the med kit this afternoon...
jmorris
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The 38 spl and 9mm, I have seen are Berdan, the 45 ACP are boxer. Even had a friend brag that he was reloading “non reloadable” cases for about 6 months, most of the cases were split upon the 2nd firing but the range was littered with them so there was always a fresh supply of once fired. About 6 months later, after he discovered the eroded chamber in his Kart barrel, he realized that “non-reloadable” didn’t mean he couldn’t do it, rather he shouldn’t.
Not a cheap lesson to learn but a good one.
OP
OP
Elkins45
Member
This particular case was berdan primer. It’s really easy to see the flash holes when the head comes out separately. The box had a $5.00 sticker on it so I’m thinking these particular ones were bought at least 15 years ago.
LiveLife
Member
Could powder decomposition, especially if stored in higher temperature conditions, perhaps contributed to higher chamber pressure that could have caused case wall rupture/failure? And we all have seen powdery corrosion inside and out of cases.
Smokeless Propellant - https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-education/safety/gunpowder-stability
"The main ingredient of smokeless propellant, comprising from about 55% to 90% of the composition, is nitrocellulose. The process of creating nitrocellulose leaves remnant acid in the material. This acid immediately starts decomposing the finished product. Left alone the decomposition will reach the stage where the propellant becomes unstable and self-ignites. This process resulted in massive explosions at U.S. Government arsenals after World War I.
To increase the life of the smokeless propellant, a stabilizing chemical is used. This “stabilizer” reacts with the acid to slow down the decomposition process. However, as the stabilizer reacts with the acid it is consumed. After the stabilizer is totally consumed, the propellant is no longer protected from the internal acid.
The entire stabilizer / decomposition process is a time and temperature function – the higher the temperature, the shorter the safe life of the powder. Even moderate temperature, over extended time, leads to propellant decomposition. As a rule of thumb, any temperature over that which is comfortable to a person is accelerating the decomposition of smokeless propellants."
"The main ingredient of smokeless propellant, comprising from about 55% to 90% of the composition, is nitrocellulose. The process of creating nitrocellulose leaves remnant acid in the material. This acid immediately starts decomposing the finished product. Left alone the decomposition will reach the stage where the propellant becomes unstable and self-ignites. This process resulted in massive explosions at U.S. Government arsenals after World War I.
To increase the life of the smokeless propellant, a stabilizing chemical is used. This “stabilizer” reacts with the acid to slow down the decomposition process. However, as the stabilizer reacts with the acid it is consumed. After the stabilizer is totally consumed, the propellant is no longer protected from the internal acid.
The entire stabilizer / decomposition process is a time and temperature function – the higher the temperature, the shorter the safe life of the powder. Even moderate temperature, over extended time, leads to propellant decomposition. As a rule of thumb, any temperature over that which is comfortable to a person is accelerating the decomposition of smokeless propellants."
OP
OP
Elkins45
Member
I have several boxes left. I’ll shoot them in a metal framed pistol and see if I have another case failure. As a general rule, the Blazer line of ammo hasn’t been around long enough for powder decomposition to likely be a factor, even if these were from one of the earliest batches. They’ve been stored in a cool, dry basement since I bought them.
lysanderxiii
Member
I don't think that was an out of battery firing.
It looks like the case burned through given the melted look on the rim.
It is rare in handgun ammunition, but a small flaw in the case that will allow gas to flow through an aluminum case can actually cause the a melt.
jmorris
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If semiauto, I doubt it. That would be .06 second splits, shot to shot to equal the 1000/min rate they can run. Much more likely that the bolt couldn’t fully close but closed enough the hammer/firing pin could do its job, the bullet set back or both.
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double bogey
Member
I had a .22lr fire out of battery in my 10-22 that i allowed the chamber to get dirty. I was actually running a shoot until fail test to see how long it would run. I believe the modified chamfered bolt was why it could fire slightly out of battery. I was impressed by the amount of gas that came out, also because i have a cleaning hole in the back of the receiver so it can be cleaned from the breach end. Thank goodness for safety glasses, and i know i better to at least clean the chamber before 1300 rounds.
zaitcev
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As already was mentioned upthread, a typical blowback AR can fire when it's slightly out of battery, because the hammer can still reach the firing pin. This happens because they do not have an interlock that every pistol has, which is considered an auto sear and thus prohibited. Thank you Congress for the NFA.
The only complete solution is a 2-piece bolt where the bolt head remains in place, while the carrier moves, withdraws and blocks the firing pin before the case becomes unsupported. The CMMG "Rotating Delayed Blowback" and Macon's piston-operated guns have that property. Neither of them is particularly affordable.
I pretty much resigned to this issue. However, some simple measures can alleviate the problem. First, when you ramp up bolt weight, you need to ramp up buffer spring power as well. This reduces the bounce and ability to jam a cartridge into a fouled chamber. The folk remedy with 8oz buffer is to use a spring from a .308 AR-10. And of course the firing pin return spring is vital, although it primarily shows itself by the gun doubling up rather than exploding OOB. Finally, like the OP found, do not shoot wrong-handed.
The only complete solution is a 2-piece bolt where the bolt head remains in place, while the carrier moves, withdraws and blocks the firing pin before the case becomes unsupported. The CMMG "Rotating Delayed Blowback" and Macon's piston-operated guns have that property. Neither of them is particularly affordable.
I pretty much resigned to this issue. However, some simple measures can alleviate the problem. First, when you ramp up bolt weight, you need to ramp up buffer spring power as well. This reduces the bounce and ability to jam a cartridge into a fouled chamber. The folk remedy with 8oz buffer is to use a spring from a .308 AR-10. And of course the firing pin return spring is vital, although it primarily shows itself by the gun doubling up rather than exploding OOB. Finally, like the OP found, do not shoot wrong-handed.
Jim Watson
Member
Might help to load hard primers like CCI, too.
Most serious PCC shooters load PCC ammo separate from their PCP stuff anyhow.
Or buy imports with SMG primers.
Most serious PCC shooters load PCC ammo separate from their PCP stuff anyhow.
Or buy imports with SMG primers.
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