Astounded at the themes

[labgrade]

Assounted at the themes

Wahtever, but I am way curious.

Everyone seems to be elated that they can now carry concealed - although many of your state constitutions say that you can already carry uncconcealed - you have bought into the whole deal that your cops can describe your method of carrying .... did not you already have the choice to carry openly?

Now we're free! because the state has licensed you to what!? "hide your gun!"

Hoo-ray!

Be free!

Seems silly.

You already had "the right," & now you get to hide them? .....

 

[kbr80]

Which states constitutions state that open carry, or concealed for that matter is OK.

 

[Jay Kominek]

Concealing lets me and the sheeple get along.
That way, when I go to the bookstore, to get a book, I get to come home with a book, rather than have a nice chat with the local police.
If you've got any ideas for retraining the sheeple that doesn't end with my face in the dirt while some Boulder cop grinds his knee into my back, then I would like nothing more than to hear it, I assure you.
But both Paul Tiger and Rick Stanley have tried open carry in the Boulder and Denver areas (respectively), and my life will be that much better without repeating either of their experiences.

 

[Werewolf]

No open carry in Oklahoma, period. And though I agree that having to beg for the privelidge of carrying concealed is total BS and maybe unconstitutional what's the alternative short of open revolt?

Gun laws, weapons laws in general are in many cases just plain silly.

For example in OK someone with a CCW permit who can carry around a big gun capable of killing a lot of people in a very short time in a crowded area cannot carry a knife. What's even sillier is that the law that enabled CCW is called the Self Defense Act but a knife which in a close quarters situation with lots of people around and would be safer to use for SD than a gun which could take out innocents is forbidden.

But then laws don't have to make sense they just have to make someone feel good so the feel gooder will vote for the lawmaker - duh...

 

[Baba Louie]

One more thing to regulate, tax and ultimately decide more money is required to keep it afloat or to use for other "social" programs... like treating gunshot victims who are otherwise uninsured... yeah, that's the ticket.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

You're right. But something is better than nothing.

The proliferation of shall-issue laws is a strong step in the right direction from may-issue or no-issue.

And the trend will eventually, I believe, lead to more Alaskas.

It's not perfect, sure. But when it's the only choice, I won't say no to a cheeseburger, even though I'd like a bacon cheeseburger.

 

[Partisan Ranger]

Open carry is legal in Virginia, but you don't see it in my neck of the woods (Northern VA and the upper Valley).

If a soccer mom saw me carrying a Glock in Fairfax VA, she'd shriek bloody murder, grab little Taylor and Brittany and toss them in the BMW SUV, then call the cops on her cell phone.

 

[Chipper]

Not that it will carry any weight but I must agree with labgrade. Licenses to carry are paying, asking or begging for permission from the state to exercise a pre-existing right.

Moreover, the manner of carrying a firearm whether concealed or open is irrelevant when it comes to exercising a right. What part of "NO infringements" don't you understand?

As a preference I like open carry. I lived in Arizona for a while in my youth. It was definitely a case of culture-shock when I saw these folks wearing their hoglegs in the open. Being from Indiana I was already accustomed to rifle racks in the pickup and that was no big deal. At first I thought the hoglegs were quaint. After getting used to the idea I began to think that this was the best way to carry. People you met or even those who spied you from a distance instantly knew that you were armed. No guessing. No questions. No hassles. You could go about town and take care of your business and nobody, cops or thugs gave you any grief. This was polite society in action. I believe open carry is much better than concealed carry. Could be the best fashion statement of the 21st century.

I wish the Indiana constitution wasn't so "foggy" on this issue. Too much is left to the private interpretation of DAs and local or even individual police.

Chipper

 

[El Tejon]

Chipper, say what? The state constitution and case law are well-established.

Are you listening to the experts at the gun shoppe again?

 

[Shooter 2.5]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Red to Yellow to Blue to Green

 

[Jay Kominek]

Moreover, the manner of carrying a firearm whether concealed or open is irrelevant when it comes to exercising a right. What part of "NO infringements" don't you understand?

We understand it just fine. How do you propose to convince everyone who doesn't understand it?

The problem is that there is a discrepancy between what is constitutional, and what will get you thrown up against a wall and harassed by the police.

I think everyone understands that, even if they don't want to act like it.

Rather than questions that don't help anything, like the one that spawned this thread, how about ones that might be useful such as:

How do we go about changing the attitude of the sheeple towards open carry?

 

[hillbilly]

labgrade, you are both absolutely right and absolutely wrong.

You are right when you point out the odd position of being elated that the government will now "license" us to exercise a right.

However, you are wrong about not being excited about it.

Here's why.

Our rights have been abridged and erroded over the years to this point.

Our rights will not be fully restored over night. Restoration will also take years.

Getting people to remember the fact that good guys carry guns, and that guns in the hands of civilians are helpful and good will take a long time.

CCW laws are a step in that direction.

The more states that have CCW laws, the more people carry.

The more people carry, the more the scaredy cats realize that their positions against guns are illogical and unfounded.

The more that happens, the more we will get our rights back.

You think Alaska would have ever gone to Vermont-style carry without first getting a CCW law passed?

No way.

Be patient. It will take time.

hillbilly

 

[labgrade]

It's not the sheeple that I really care one whit about, jkominek, but more to the point:

"The problem is that there is a discrepancy between what is constitutional, and what will get you thrown up against a wall and harassed by the police."

Exactly. & The Whole Point.

How is it that one is subject to such treatment in the first place for a perfectly legal act?

Is it because there is a potential for harm? If so, how is that any different than someone having a Bic lighter being a potential arsonist?

Cops that are unaware of the legalities of any possession of a firearm, who use their authority to in any way harrass a law-abiding citizen for a legal act ought to be stuffed into the pit, & personally sued for all they're worth. If they don't know what the law is, they have zip, zero, nada business sporting The Badge.

 

[labgrade]

& hillbilly, I couldn't agree more, or less.

Please don't misconstrue my intent here.

I worked on a local Sheriff's campaign soley due to his pro-issue stance when Colorado was still a may-issue state. I've run the gamut on this - believe me.

Funny thing sorta, is CO's constitution says that we can have a gun where ever we want - we just can't conceal it, but when some have carried openly, they were jacked up, threatened with immediate death & incarceration - & were.

Now, we are "more enlightened" & must carry concealed.

Open carry may get you shot on sight.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all in favor of the tendencies towards the shall-issue bit as a whole, but too, one must consider that we always had "the right" to do as we would without any governmental interference.

Seems that now-a-days all the previous rights are becoming more codified to allow us to do what we always already could.

Somehow that's "progress," & the fact of such discussions makes my brain hurt that we even have to talk about it.

Once was, we just did it, now, we have to have Another Law to allow it.

If it makes sense to you (collectively), I'd sure like a primer to the Realities of the New Age, 'cause I always thought something very different.

If nothing else, all the states' constitutions need to be rewritten to reflect the "more kindler & gentle" aspects of what they really meant, rather than what was written.

[/rambling]

 

[Jay Kominek]

It's not the sheeple that I really care one whit about

It was the sheeple who called the cops when poor mvpel wanted to buy some books.
It was the sheeple who didn't go up to the cops as they drug him out of there and told them to leave him alone.

If the sheeple won't stand for it, then the cops won't do it.
If the sheeple like it, then the cops will do it that much more.

Cops that are unaware of the legalities of any possession of a firearm, who use their authority to in any way harrass a law-abiding citizen for a legal act ought to be stuffed into the pit, & personally sued for all they're worth.

Spectacular. I sent mvpel's legal fund $50, and when you try it and the cops give you trouble, I'll give your fund $50, too. And I'll keep giving people $50 to defend open carry. But I'm all ears if anyone has a plan which consists of anything more effective than sitting around saying "like, WOOOOOW dude, someone oughta, you know, TAKE ON THE MAN, and not let him push us around!"

 

[labgrade]

jkominek,

All I can say is

"If the sheeple won't stand for it, then the cops won't do it.
If the sheeple like it, then the cops will do it that much more."

Big, BIG problem is The Cops are supposed to know what the law is - regardless of what any sheeple-people think.

The Law is what The Law Is. Period & these folk (+ the po-po) are out there to abide by, & enforce, The Law, right? Isn't their Whole Point of Being Is To Serve & Protect & Abide By The Law?

& BTW, there's a constitution that says that "good folk" may have & possess weapons of their choice (in there some where ...)

& those that are enforcing The Law haven't a clue as to what The Law is?

I openly carried a handgun once & was almost shot to death by three Sheriff Deputies .....

Screw the Sheeple, The Cops are supposed To Know & part of their job is to calm The Sheep & Make Everything OK Again.

I've been a cop & tell ya what, I NEVER misunderstood what The Law said.

I'm pissed right now & tell y'all what!

If a cop doesn't know what the law is & he/she arrests someone in violation, he/she should be held PERSONALLY accountable to everything the law will allow. That'll stop many of the abuses they perpetrate.