ATF alert possible terrorist problems
- Thread starter Gordon
- Start date
dogtown tom
Member
Hi ATF! Welcome to 1985.
AlexanderA
Member
By "belt fed rifles" they must mean semiautomatic clones, such as the FN M249S (which currently sells, new, for more than $10,000). It's not cost-effective for "criminal networks" to spend that kind of money on a single gun. Particularly because it's not any more effective than a standard AR.
The primary buyers of such things are collectors.
This sounds far-fetched. I'm highly skeptical.
The primary buyers of such things are collectors.
This sounds far-fetched. I'm highly skeptical.
MachIVshooter
Member
Some of these organizations are very well funded.
That said, if they're after belt feds and destructive devices, I expect they're a lot more likely to acquire them outside of the US for a lot less and with full capabilities and simply smuggle them in. Not like our borders are secure, and not like uncle Joe didn't leave them tens of thousands of M2s, M240s, M249s & M4s. You'd probably be more successful doing that undetected that than ordering a bunch of uncommon, high-dollar belt fed semi autos from local shops.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
They aren't talking about street level criminals, but terrorist/drug organizations which have deep pockets, you know, like the ones that invade countries, own ships, submarines, and commercial aircraft. For example, if Pablo Escobar was alive today (coverting to 2023 dollars), he would have had about 70 billion dollars, more than most African countries GDP. Not all are that well funded, but he isn't unique in what he owned and did.
The Sinaloa cartel, which does operate in the US, is worth anywhere from $3-39 billion. The Gulf cartel, also operating in the US, is worth $10 billion.
The types of money these organizations have is so much more than what most normal people can fathom in terms of purchasing power.
GHinNH
Member
ATF capitalizing on fear...
I'd like to say it surprises me, but with the ongoing persecution of American citizens orchestrated by the White House it doesn't.
Pretty lame attempt actually.
I'd like to say it surprises me, but with the ongoing persecution of American citizens orchestrated by the White House it doesn't.
Pretty lame attempt actually.
MachIVshooter
Member
These announcements are specifically for FFLs, they do the same when there have been robberies/burglaries in the area. It's not the same as press releases, and is a case of them actually being proactive in trying to prevent crime. IOW, doing their job.
AlexanderA
Member
Yes, and that's what makes the ATF announcement so puzzling. These organizations are not going to try to get "belt fed rifles" from FFL's in the southwestern United States. They're going to get full-autos from their international suppliers.
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
Are they? Why don't they do all their purchases there? A lot of guns are apparently moving from Texas, through Texas, into Mexico, right? However, your claim that they won't do it is cost effectiveness. Seriously, unless you are privy to their business strategies and know them to be cost effective, I would argue that cost effectiveness isn't as significant of an issue to organizations that have more money than they know what to do with.
The I-Team: Mexican drug cartels look to North Texas to smuggle military-grade guns
According to a recent government report, an estimated 200,000 firearms are smuggled into Mexico each year. Of those recovered and traced, nearly half come from Texas.
www.cbsnews.com
U.S. citizen made guns on demand for Mexican cartel
An Oklahoma man was sentenced to 12 years for making ghost guns for a Mexican cartel — a practice that a recent government watchdog report found is all too c...
www.youtube.com
MachIVshooter
Member
As I already said, I find it unlikely that a terrorist group would try to procure belt fed machine guns within the US, as any quality of sales of the semi auto version is going to draw a lot of attention, and making them full auto is trickier than ARs or blowback stuff.
However, I don't think it's a bad idea to advise FFLs that these groups may be shopping, because purchasing ordinary semi-auto rifles 2 or 3 at a time really won't raise eyebrows unless someone is already on alert. Knowing to pay attention might mean noticing different people coming in to buy over a period are showing up in the same vehicle or with the same "friends" loitering outside.
Straw purchases are definitely an issue, and we'd all be that much more ticked if these characters shot up a bunch of Americans and we later found out that fedgov knew what they were up to and said nothing. Maybe it makes a difference, maybe it doesn't, but there's no harm in being advised.
Bcwitt
Member
They can get belt fed full autos cheaper on the black market then any replica semi. Sounds like BS to me.
