ATF - "Always Think Forfeiture"

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Chipperman

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I saw this posted on another site. Anyone know anything about this?

From a DOJ/ATF purchase order:

Description

AMENDMENT NOTICE: This is a combined synopsis/solicitation for commercial items prepared in accordance with the format in FAR Subpart 12.6, in conjunction with FAR 13.5, as applicable, and as supplemented with additional information included in this notice. This announcement constitutes the only solicitation; bids are being requested and a written solicitation will not be issued. The solicitation number is 840400000029 and is issued as an invitation for bids (IFB), unless otherwise indicated herein. The solicitation document and incorporated provisions and clauses are those in effect through Federal Acquisition Circular FAC 2005-20. The associated North American Industrial Classification System (NAICS) code for this procurement is 339999 with a small business size standard of 500 employees. This requirement is a [ Small Business ] set-aside and only qualified offerors may submit bids. The solicitation pricing on www.FedBid.com will start on the date this solicitation is posted and will end on 2007-10-29 15:00:00.0 Eastern Time or as otherwise displayed at www.FedBid.com. FOB Destination shall be Landover, MD 20785

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms requires the following items, Purchase Description Determined by Line Item, to the following:
LI 001, EXACT MATCH ONLY - Leatherman Micra Color: Blue - Part number 64340101K Engraved with: ATF-Asset Forfeiture AND "always think forfeiture" PLEASE REFER TO THE ATTACHMENT. NOTE: ATF MAY REQUEST A SAMPLE TO DETERMINE IF IT MEETS OUR REQUIREMENT. A picture of the item may be substituted in place of the actual sample. ***Partial Shipments are allowed. Please use the space below to explain your delivery schedule. Preferred Delivery is between November 15th-23rd, NLT November 23rd***, 2000, EA;
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http://www.fbo.gov/spg/DOJ/BATF/APM...ent to Combined Synopsis_Solicitation 03.html

The link provided does not seem to have the same text as the quoted part.
If this is for real, it's pretty disgusting.
-----
edit: the link above contains another link to the quoted part.
 
We're discussing this line in particular....


The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms requires the following items, Purchase Description Determined by Line Item, to the following:
LI 001, EXACT MATCH ONLY - Leatherman Micra Color: Blue - Part number 64340101K Engraved with: ATF-Asset Forfeiture AND "always think forfeiture"
Click to expand...
 
I am not sure what to say to that either, except *grumble, grumble*

no I don't want to say that either

seems they are sending a message, the message is you have no personal Property rights. From the DOJ's web page:

http://www.usdoj.gov/jmd/afp/07federalforfeiture/index.htm

Administrative forfeiture is an in rem action that permits the federal seizing agency to forfeit the property without judicial involvement. The authority for a seizing agency to start an administrative forfeiture action is found in the Tariff Act of 1930, 19 U.S.C. § 1607. Property that can be administratively forfeited is: merchandise the importation of which is prohibited; a conveyance used to import, transport, or store a controlled substance; a monetary instrument; or other property that does not exceed $500,000 in value.
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It means that ATF is actually willing to admit on a stamped item, presumably worn by their agents, that their goal is to try to confiscate as much personal property as possible. :fire:
 
Sounds like a hack job --subbing nefarious language for a regular request for bids. Might as well have put hangman's nooses in there. Pointedly funny, though.

Anyhoo:

Property that can be administratively forfeited is: (snip) ; or other property that does not exceed $500,000 in value.
Click to expand...

Anyone up for appraising all my stuff at greater than that value?

Oh, wait a minute. With the dollar going the way it is, it won't be long until even my Jennings is worth that anyhow.
 
I saw that on another website too.

I think that it is more than sad and disgusting.

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams

Catherine
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/
 
Whats so surprising? They are part of the Treasury department and the IRS does the exact same thing. They actually use a lot of the same tactics if you think about it.
 
Don't get the wrong idea. They can't just come in and forfeit anything they want. The idea of forfeiture laws is to allow LE agencies to seize the proceeds of criminal activity. The easiest example is finding a guy selling drugs and forfeiting his drug money and the car he uses to move his drugs. Lots of things can be forfeited, though, as long as it can be shown that they are the proceeds of crime. Those who have their property forfeited have a right to a forfeiture hearing in front of a judge, also.
 
So, who here has the bravery to e-mail and write them about it?

Even though I do not participate in illegal activities, I will simply don my foil hat and wait for some one else to post ATF's response.

Dont waste your breath calling me a chicken, cuz I know I am.
 
Hotpig, are you saying that those are BAD things?

If I was a cop, I'd buy a bunch of extras to trade with other cops at conventions and such.
 
forfit

there was recently a mexican going home to buy a farm with mony he saved for years.he was stopped and the money confiscated as drug money.he just with drew it from the bank.he did not get it back.yes he was an illegal mex.still it was his that he worked for and not drug money.they have also done it to peopl that traved to another state to buy a house.:fire:--:cuss:
-----:banghead:---:D----:D
 
he was stopped and the money confiscated as drug money.
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This has happened to quite a few "legal" citizens. Asset forfeiture is quite real and often abused, and you dont have to be a drug dealer or illegal immigrant to experience the joys of it. Its certainly not funny if it happens to you. You dont have to be charged at all, they hold your property and money "guilty" and you have to prove it isnt. This is all done in the civil courts by the way, where the burden of proof is on you. You, or should I say, your property, are guilty until proved innocent.

Hope you have all your receipts and all your affairs in perfect order.
 
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms requires the following items, Purchase Description Determined by Line Item, to the following:
LI 001, EXACT MATCH ONLY - Leatherman Micra Color: Blue - Part number 64340101K Engraved with: ATF-Asset Forfeiture AND "always think forfeiture" PLEASE REFER TO THE ATTACHMENT. NOTE: ATF MAY REQUEST A SAMPLE TO DETERMINE IF IT MEETS OUR REQUIREMENT. A picture of the item may be substituted in place of the actual sample. ***Partial Shipments are allowed. Please use the space below to explain your delivery schedule. Preferred Delivery is between November 15th-23rd, NLT November 23rd***, 2000, EA;

For this solicitation, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms intends to conduct an online competitive reverse auction to be facilitated by the third-party reverse auction provider, FedBid, Inc. FedBid has developed an online, anonymous, browser based application to conduct the reverse auction. An Offeror may submit a series of pricing bids, which descend in price during the specified period of time for the aforementioned reverse auction. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms is taking this action in an effort to improve both vendor access and awareness of requests and the agency's ability to gather multiple, completed, real-time bids. All responsible Offerors that respond to this solicitation MUST submit the pricing portion of their bid using the online exchange located at www.FedBid.com. There is no cost to register, review procurement data or make a bid on www.FedBid.com. Offerors that are not currently registered to use www.FedBid.com should proceed to www.FedBid.com to complete their free registration. Offerors that require special considerations or assistance may contact the FedBid Helpdesk at 877-9FEDBID (877-933-3243) or via email at [email protected]. Offerors may not artificially manipulate the price of a transaction on www.FedBid.com by any means. It is unacceptable to place bad faith bids, to use decoys in the www.FedBid.com process or to collude with the intent or effect of hampering the competitive www.FedBid.com process. Should offerors require additional clarification, notify the point of contact or FedBid at 877-9FEDBID (877-933-3243) or [email protected]. Use of FedBid: Buyers and Sellers agree to conduct this transaction through FedBid in compliance with the FedBid Terms of Use. Buyers and Sellers understand that FedBid ranks all bids by price; however, pursuant to applicable acquisition regulations and/or departmental guidelines, Buyers may use criteria other than price to evaluate offers. Accordingly, please note that, unless otherwise specified herein below, to the extent required by applicable regulations and/or guidelines, award will be made to the responsible Seller whose offer conforming to the solicitation will be most advantageous to the Buyer on the basis of price, technical capability, delivery, and past performance.

CCR Requirement - Company must be registered on Central Contractor Registration (CCR) before an award could be made to them. If company is not registered in CCR, they may do so by going to CCR web site at http://www.ccr.gov.

The following FAR clauses in paragraph (b) of FAR clause 52.212-5, Contract Terms and Conditions Required To Implement Statutes or Executive Orders-Commercial Items, will apply: 52.222-21, 52.222-26, 52.222-35, 52.222-36, 52.222-37, 52.225-13, 52.232-34. The full text of a FAR clause may be accessed electronically at http://www.acqnet.gov/far.

The selected Offeror must comply with the following commercial item terms and conditions. FAR 52.212-1, Instructions to Offerors - Commercial, applies to this acquisition. The selected Offeror must submit a completed copy of the provision at 52.212-3, Offeror Representations and Certifications - Commercial Items. FAR 52.212-4, Contract Terms and Conditions - Commercial Items, applies to this acquisition.

In addition to providing pricing at www.FedBid.com for this solicitation, each Offeror must provide any required, NON-PRICING responses (e.g. technical proposal, representations and certifications, etc.) directly to [email protected](NOT THROUGH FEDBID.COM) so that they are received at that email address no later than the closing date and time for this solicitation.

Preferred delivery between November 15th-23rd, 2007. NLT November 23rd. VENDORS MUST PUT THEIR BEST DELIVERY. If you cannot comply with this term, DO NOT bid.
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Let's start again looking at this. First off, it is not a hack-job. It is the real thing. Those who think the bidding ended on Nov. 23, 2000 have misunderstood the solicitation. If you read further, it is saying that they want it delivered NLT or no later than Nov. 23rd. And that they want 2000 pieces delivered. Or 2000, EA.

This bid was awarded:

http://www.fbo.gov/spg/DOJ/BATF/APMD/Awards/DJA08B000084LnALL.html

Just think, $37,460 of your tax dollars and mine went to pay for the monstrosity. It sure makes me feel good.

John
 
They hold your property and money "guilty" and you have to prove it isnt. This is all done in the civil courts by the way, where the burden of proof is on you. You, or should I say, your property, are guilty until proved innocent.
Click to expand...

It probably varies by State law, but in Michigan the standard of fact for initiating a forfeiture action is probable cause. If contested, the plaintiff (the State) must show that a preponderance of the evidence exists to substantiate that the item is the proceeds of crime. To put it simply, the State must show that it's more likely than not.

In my experience (and I have forfeited people's property) people usually don't contest the forfeiture because they know that their stuff is the proceeds of criminal activity. They just don't fight it. A good guy whose property has been wrongfully taken would fight tooth and nail to get their stuff back, and would have the evidence to do it.

I'm suppose it's possible to be the victim of a wrongful forfeiture, but not likely.
 
Don't get the wrong idea. They can't just come in and forfeit anything they want. The idea of forfeiture laws is to allow LE agencies to seize the proceeds of criminal activity. The easiest example is finding a guy selling drugs and forfeiting his drug money and the car he uses to move his drugs. Lots of things can be forfeited, though, as long as it can be shown that they are the proceeds of crime. Those who have their property forfeited have a right to a forfeiture hearing in front of a judge, also.
Click to expand...

Yup, forfeiture is perfectly legal and there always is recourse to a judicial hearing. I don't believe for a moment that any law enforcement agency would entrap people just to get their personal property. Not for one single moment. Not even for a fleeting nanosecond. Forget about the obvious and glaring conflict of interest or the plain-as-the-nose-on-your face motivation for the agency to do so. Couldn't happen in a zillion years you betcha Mary Poppins.
 
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