ATF Warning Re. IEDs In Arizona

[Jim K]

While I won't minimize the concerns, I have to say that this sounds like more of a "prank" than serious terrorist activity. Without going into gory details, I can say that the explosion of a conventional flashlight full of RDX or TNT or even black powder would have had much worse results than "minor injuries".

I do hope the police and federal officers find the guy and lock him up for a long time; if he gets a short sentence he will consider it part of the learning curve and resolve to do better the next time.

Jim

 

[Zoogster]

Probably just pranks by misguided youth.

Stupid and they need to be punished, randomly hurting people is intolerable.
However as mentioned the lack of severity probably means it is some kid stuffing a weak firecracker or some other common but not particularly nasty things in them and rigging them to light.

However the willingness to target innocent people at random does show a mentality that when they escalate to bigger things could pose a serious risk.
So an emphasis on catching them sooner rather than later is in order.
It is not just some kid playing with explosives or fireworks for their own recreation, but someone willing to harm people at random for fun.


It also gives a positive publicity stunt for the ATF in the area rocked by the Gunwalker scandal. A place they are likely not very popular. Positive publicity they certainly could use.

 

[Texan Scott]

Randomly leaving cans of 'peanut brittle' full of springy green snake thingies is a prank. People potentially suffering crippling hand or eye injuries is not a prank. THIS IS A CRIME.

 

[armoredman]

I agree with JimK and Zoogster, that this could be one of two possible things - stupid people making stupid little bombs as pranks or sick practical jokes, or serious people trying to see how far simple devices like these can go. You can stuff a lot of explosive in a big flashlight case, especially if you only need a small battery for the triggering charge. I am surprised and very thankful that there aren't a few dead people. Perhaps the next series will be like the afore mentioned Mad Bomber, more and more powerful - hopefully ATFE will actually work FOR us for a change and help get these persons.

 

[conw]

As others have noted, the intent to harm does not always result in the harm intended... at first. I wouldn't ascribe it to pranksters simply because it was ineffective at hurting people.

The media attention could be powerfully motivating to the individual(s) responsible and they could either work harder, or get better, to hurt people. It's very serious.

 

[Texan Scott]

Note also that the intent of a terrorist is not to cause harm per se, but to cause FEAR. The harm does not have to be severe, as long as it creates the fear or panic desired.
This is the indirect nature of terrorit violence, that the TARGET is not the VICTIM, but rather the people who HEAR about the victim.

 

[Piper106]

"it was only a matter of time before the TTPs of our enemies crossed the shores to the US of A"

OK I'm dumb, what is a TTP ??

Piper106

 

[Dnaltrop]

As someone with difficulties healing, (thin, weak scars prone to re-injury).

A Bomb is not a prank, whether it's draino and tinfoil, or Dry-ice in a 2 liter, Black powder or any of the myriad of firework materials.

Bad enough to use with a "goal".. but sowing random, deliberate harm should be subject to the harshest penalties.

 

[Fred Fuller]

OK I'm dumb, what is a TTP ??

Generally in this context, milspeak for Tactics Techniques and Procedures

 

[LAK]

This sounds more MS-13ish than anything to do with turbans and beards. Large parts of southern AZ are practically controlled by groups originating south of the border, and AZ has been a sort of political battle zone over border traffic - legal and illegal.

The feds may shy away from that avenue of investigation and quickly ascribe it to some "domestic" group (who are nearly always linked to feds anyway) or the rag and beard group that is currently "helping us" destabilize places like Libya and now Syria.

Regardless, people better be very careful about their impulses, and start exercizing their powers of observation. Because it looks like regardless of who one suspects is behind these upheavals around the world, many of the more unpleasant aspects are coming home to roost.

Regarding the prank theory, I think it is more likely the exploratory phase. Remember that terrorism is about the fear factor, not necessarily the actual effect.

 

[sm]

Anyone who has ever taken a class with Louis Awerbuck knows how firmly he insists that students not pick up dropped items at random on the range. He always says that it's because where he grew up, picking up random items without thinking and checking them closely might trigger an explosion.

I come up with some "interesting mentors" which includes some South Afrikans...

Young'un,
Whom come up being mentored to NOT pick up dropped items...

 

[wheelgunslinger]

One dedicated IED builder is a serious threat. As an Army EOD troop i disarmed several bombs built by a 17 year old kid. This kids bombs kept improving: His last bomb had a trembler switch. The police caught him that day, acting weird near the scene. He readily confessed and was proud of his work.

Yep. They're not always what you think they are.
If I were a betting man, I'd put money on it being someone feeling out the BATFE's ability to find/or trace components. There's an awful lot of chemistry out there that can be employed to create an exothermic reaction with a violent rate.
People regularly fly under the radar making large quantities of methamphetamine because they've found the blind spots of law enforcement. Bombers can do the same.

 

[Texan Scott]

Nor do we need to assume some vast criminal conspiracy... it could just be one addle-headed, disgruntled wannabe, some lives- in- his elderly- mom's- basement mall ninja weirdo, somebody just acting out for attention, who doesn't CARE who gets hurt, or how badly.

Remember the smiley-face bomber? that nutjob was just trying to get the network news to make a smiley face on a mapof the U.S. by mapping incident sites...

Sooner or later, if he's not caught, this guy will self-dtruct or graduate to something much, much worse. The time to find him and put him away is NOW.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

does it make me a bad man that i wish he'd do like the tree huggers a few years back? makes a big one that goes off prematurely in his lap? clean up the gene pool a bit

 

[Texan Scott]

Statistically speaking, h's probably a male under the age of 30... and that sort of problem generally develops later but we can always hope for the darwin awards honorable mention.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Right, hso, just because the explosives are called IEDs doesn't mean it is some foreign national, Taliban member, etc. We have plenty of our own terrorists and have since the country was formed. The unabomber, Olympic square bomber, abortion bombers, OKC bombing, the smiley face mailbox bomber, KKK bombers, other church bombings, etc. etc. etc. are all our own people. There are no shores that need to be crossed to find terrorists.

+1. Use of the term "IED" at all is just more acronym-fetishism by the military. "IED" is three syllables to quickly say "bomb" -- a one syllable word -- or at best "road side bomb," a three syllable phrase. Some twit probably got a gold star on his efficiency report for coining IED, but its use over there or over here just disguises the fact we're talking about a bomb, and confuses the continuity of tactics between pre-9/11 and post-9/11 domestic terrorist groups.

 

[oneounceload]

What makes anyone think this isn't a continuation of the failed F&F trying to cause an issue?

 

[conw]

What makes anyone think this isn't a continuation of the failed F&F trying to cause an issue?

The null hypothesis. Unless you have concrete reason to believe that, it's speculation. It's not logical to assume two events are linked based on that type of conjecture.

It's not logical to start from the assumption that something DID happen and say "disprove this," you have to do it the other way around...

 

[HorseSoldier]

This sounds more MS-13ish than anything to do with turbans and beards. Large parts of southern AZ are practically controlled by groups originating south of the border, and AZ has been a sort of political battle zone over border traffic - legal and illegal.

The targets make it sound more like someone with a grudge than gang activity. Hypothetically, both the businesses targeted may have been people a gang wanted to send a message to (or not), but the Salvation Army rehab center doesn't sound like a place a gang would take a swing at.

 

[Cosmoline]

Well it could just be a bad practical joke, or it could be that they packed a lot of unique in there and the plastic walls just gave way too fast to create much pressure.

I'd hate to see what a maglight would do.

 

[alsaqr]

The reward is low.

http://www.gsnmagazine.com/article/26476/atf_puts_10000_reward_info_phoenix_ied_attacker

 

[Texan Scott]

i dunno... 10G seems like a lot of money to me... but around here, the bounty on 'yotes is $15 for a pair of ears.

 

[hso]

What makes anyone think this isn't a continuation of the failed F&F trying to cause an issue?

So you think Holder wants to ban flashlights now?
That's no less an absurd notion as trying to make some link between a crank bomber and a government conspiracy on firearms.

 

[LAK]

The null hypothesis. Unless you have concrete reason to believe that, it's speculation. It's not logical to assume two events are linked based on that type of conjecture.

It's not logical to start from the assumption that something DID happen and say "disprove this," you have to do it the other way around...

That is a good textbook theory. However there is a pattern of behaviour by these people which is long and well documented. In plain sight for anyone who wants to take the time to look at it. F&F is way out in the open now, and so far no real action against it's organizers or participants.

 

[LAK]

The targets make it sound more like someone with a grudge than gang activity. Hypothetically, both the businesses targeted may have been people a gang wanted to send a message to (or not), but the Salvation Army rehab center doesn't sound like a place a gang would take a swing at.

MS-13 is not your average gang; more like the army and mechanics used by higher level and more sophisticated drug and arms dealers. On a local level their individual members may involve themselves in other things of vourse, but in the context of "terrorism" their targets may not need to be anyone in particular.