Aughhhh, SP primers in 45ACP brass

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mugsie

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I am so tired of having to continually sort through all me 45 brass just to find the couple Federals with SP primers installed. All of my brass is range pick ups, so there's no complaining about headstamp etc. I'm lucky to find it cause we have some clowns going through the buckets dumping everything to either resell or recycle. So what I have I have. Either way, I cull through it prior to tumbling, and afterwards prior to putting on the press (I use a Dillon 550b progressive), but every once in a while one of the little suckers makes it through. When it does everything comes to a screeching halt.

Fortunately I haven't set a primer off yet trying to force a LP primer into a SP pocket, but I'm sure one of these days I am going to be very surprised.

How do you guys feel about the SP primers in the 45 case? Anyone seen any difference in accuracy? I'm sure it was only a cost thing for the manufacturers, but I haven't seen the prices drop with all the money they are saving! Silly me....
 
It's a pain on a progressive press I agree. I have a brass feeder, so I sort after cleaning. Once I have enough to load, I load them when I switch over to SP, aka 9mm. Accuracy, I have seen no difference between the 2. I'm using WST for my powder.
 
I use a single stage press, but ran into this problem myself recently. Herters' brand ammo, 38 Spl. Small primers, but a crimped in primer. Solution: I had to buy a swagger to overcome the problem. Problem solved, it cost me $100 , but now I don't have to buy new brass either.
 
they are pretty darn easy to sort out. either before or after you clean them, shake em around so they arrange themselves mouth up. then just grab a handful and do a quick look for small pockets.
 
Yeah, they aren't hard for me to tell apart either. A few months back when I couldn't get LP primers and I could get SP Primers I was glad to have 'em. Once they are sorted, I never have to sort them again....only exception is when I do range pick-up. I figure if I get the brass for free, sorting it by primer is not a big deal.
 
I handle them the same way as crimped pockets. I'm feeling for the primer to settle into the mouth of the pocket before I give it the real push, pretty much for any case. So I don't waste a second sorting them out beforehand. If the primer doesn't easily start in the pocket, I stop and take it off the press, no matter the cause. In my experience, the anvil of the LPP fits into the SPP pocket, so the primer doesn't normally get squished/damaged in the process.

If I were to use a progressive that can't automatically handle an empty spot on the shell-holder, I'd just take the first 10-20 cases off the press after sizing/decapping. Then when you run into one of these small primer cases, take it off the press and replace it with one of these.

I have never loaded a SPP. I don't see why I would. Until I have as many SPP cases as LPP, reloading (and shooting) SPP cases is just compounding the problem.
 
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I love em! Only have to order small pistol primers and not worry about what I have in stock. I swap large for small all the time.
For those of you complaining,,,,,well you should inspect all of your brass anyway. This is just another reason to check them out.
 
I size/deprime THEN inspect (have to do it anyway) before putting into the tumbler. Easy to sort for me at that point and I do not use a progressive press so no big hairy deal.:D

FWIW I find it easier to see PP size on a deprimed brass than if left primed.:scrutiny:YMMV
 
They are evil!

Actually, I started sorting my .45ACP brass after I encountered some Federal or Blazer brass which had the SPP. I clean all my cases via stainless steel tumbling now, so I decap everything. Sure makes it easy to find those nasty SPP cases.

I keep a bunch on hand in case I am shooting lost brass matches.
 
I sort too, but those little buggers are very very clever! They hide, and when no one is looking, they jump in with the big boys!
 
I used to hate 'em!
Then in late December 2012 I discovered I was low on LPP and there were none to be found anywhere.

At that point I acquired a lot more appreciation for SPP .45 ACP brass. Just think about how versatile they are!

With appropriate changes to your powder charge (and assuming your weapon will reliably ignite them) you can prime with:
Small Pistol Primers,
Small Pistol Magnum Primers,
Small Rifle Primers,
Or
Small Rifle Magnum Primers.

With the LPP brass you're pretty much limited to:
Large Pistol Primers,
Or
Large Pistol Magnum Primers.

Unless you want to use a Large Rifle primer pocket uniformer and make the pockets too deep for use with pistol primers ever again.

I was happy that I'd saved all that annoying SPP .45 brass because it allowed me to use up a bunch of old SRP's and keep my P-220 shooting without having to pay scalpers prices for Large Pistol Primers.

I should probably add that I'm a single stage only reloader and this might have a lot to do with how I feel. If I had to worry about possibly setting off a whole feeder tube full of primers I'd probably feel differently.
 
I use both.
Someone on another forum did a chrony run and found the SP cases gave up 25-35 FPS over LP cases with otherwise identical loads.
And I find the SP cases are a bit more accurate in my Springfield.
 
JMorris.....very entertaining!.....best use of a ball point pen I've seen in a long time!

So you're using the swaging station on a 1050 press. Not being too familiar with the 1050....especially how the swager works, I'm guessing.....

So on the large pocket case the swage rod goes into the pocket and the switch working the solenoid isn't tripped, but the small pocket stops the rod short......but I don't get how the switch is tripped......got to go back and watch again.

Ok, you replaced the swager rod with one where a regular case pocket void allows the rod to go into it preventing downward movement of the rod below the plate. The small pockets prevent the rod from going in, so movement forced downward into the switch......very crafty.

So how can you do that with your 650 press? :)
 
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SPP's in .45 ACP...

Are just one more thing to have to watch for when sorting brass. OF COURSE I inspect my brass prior to reloading, but this is just one more darn thing.

I wonder what the folks at SAAMI were thinking when they OK'd this--Certainly they were NOT considering reloading.

Personally, so far the SPP's are in the vast minority in my range pickups, so I set 'em aside and put 'em into the brass scrap bucket. If they become more common, I guess I'll save 'em up separately, and do up a run of SPP .45 ACP's. But right now not enough to bother with.
 
Can anyone give a reason that a LPP is actually NEEDED in the .45 ACP other than "tradition" or "because it just does"?

I imagine you heard the same sort of talk when the .357 Magnum went from large to small primers back in my Grandpa's day.

I KNOW several of my friends complained back in the 80's when the .454 Casull went from LPP to SRP.

Can anyone give an actual reason that the LPP is functionally superior to a SPP in .45 ACP?

I've thought about it and the only thing I could come up with is that it'd probably give you a slightly larger "sweet spot" for your firing pin to hit, but I feel like that would only matter if the pistol in question was grossly out of spec to begin with.

Also, if you think about it, the argument that ammo companies are pushing the change as a cost cutting measure doesn't really hold water.

A small pistol primer uses about as much priming compound as a large pistol primer. It's true that the SPP uses less brass than a LPP, but a significant percentage of the inside of either primer contains nothing but air. I haven't actually measured it, but visual examination seems to indicate that the LPP has a lot more empty space inside it than a SPP.

Now consider that when an ammo company switches from large to small primers, 100% of the difference in size between the two primers in the case head has to be filled with brass. The last time I checked, brass was considerably more costly than air.

Also, consider that in normal times, SPP are cheaper than LPP and the argument that the people who OK'd this switch "didn't care about reloaders", loses its credibility.

I've seen a lot of changes in the last few years that I disapprove of, but if you look at it objectively (and disregard the fact that most of us already have hundreds or even thousands of LPP .45 brass), the change to SPP really isn't such a bad thing.

Now if there's someone out there following this thread that has a machining background and design skills, you could make a mint by coming up with a relatively inexpensive tool that could be chucked into a drill motor and that could quickly convert SPP's to LPP's.

I suggest that it should index off of the case diameter rather than the flash hole (which can sometimes be off center), that it have a carbide cutting blade, and lastly, a positive, non adjustable, low friction "stop" that would prevent it from cutting too deeply and ruining the case.

Once you have all the design and financing set up to begin production, let me know and I'll give you the address where you can send my royalty checks. :D
 
So, you guys don't inspect your brass before you reload it? If you do even a cursory inspection, the SPP 45s are easy to cull. If you have a bunch that simply make you angry, send them to me.
 
I like 'em. They let me load 45ACP on the 550B without changing primer setups. I cull them out when I sort my range brass, and I cull again when I clean the brass, and set aside the SPP brass for seperate reloading. The few SPP that make it through to the press when I'm loading LPP are caught when the primer won't seat - easy peasy.

But that's me and the 550B - I imagine that they're more disruptive to higher volume reloaders.
 
Can anyone give a reason that a LPP is actually NEEDED in the .45 ACP other than "tradition" or "because it just does"?
Click to expand...

Probable has something to do with Government Regs. way back in WWI days when they put the Colt 1911 into the soldiers hands.
NO, it wasn't George Bush's fault.

Actually a quick inspection is all that needed if you're able to see the difference in size.
 
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