orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,711
A...women?
Yep, that would be pretty difficult....
Bad experience at a gun shop
- Thread starter chaim
- Start date
- Status
A...women?
Yep, that would be pretty difficult....
Tom Servo
Member
I'm used to gun-shop hostility, which is probably the reason my shop has seen a 160% sales growth over the last year.
Women and minorities have money to spend, and they're concerned with getting means to self-defense. Why alienate them? All day long, I have customers tell me horror stories of the treatment they've received at other shops.
I don't care what your ethniticity/background/religion/gender are, unless it makes for interesting conversation. There's no such thing as a "women's gun" (and if there were it's NOT a .357 Airweight), nor do some groups go for a particular model.
It's amazing what a huge market niche you can tap into by not pre-judging folks.
Oh, and Chaim, if you're still interested in unloading that 586, and you're ever in Georgia, look me up
Women and minorities have money to spend, and they're concerned with getting means to self-defense. Why alienate them? All day long, I have customers tell me horror stories of the treatment they've received at other shops.
I don't care what your ethniticity/background/religion/gender are, unless it makes for interesting conversation. There's no such thing as a "women's gun" (and if there were it's NOT a .357 Airweight), nor do some groups go for a particular model.
It's amazing what a huge market niche you can tap into by not pre-judging folks.
Oh, and Chaim, if you're still interested in unloading that 586, and you're ever in Georgia, look me up
arcticap
Member
His finger on the trigger was very wrong, but at least you both knew that the gun was unloaded.
He must have empty guns pointed at him all of the time by customers.
Of course, it's not proper. But sometimes you just have to let your friends (& others) slide for being dumb.
Do I think that he was prejudiced? You bet I do! But so what, he's just a meaningless speck in your life. I'm glad that you didn't ask him why he wasn't interested in your guns since he was just yanking your chain the whole time anyway. But in my view, as much as I wouldn't want to patronize him again either if I was in your shoes, it's really wrong to feel that way. Why? Because he's there to serve you, and to meet your gun needs and interests. Just because he's a jerk, doesn't mean that you should suffer by not being able to walk back in there and look over his goods with your head held high. You should keep your enemies close, and now that you know him, use that to your psychological advantage and get some satisfaction out of it too.
I'm not saying that you should spend any money in his shop, but you should reserve yourself the right to walk in there and look around and fondle his guns and buy anything you chose to, anytime you feel like it. Remember, he's working for you. If you walk in there and want to hold some guns, do so. Him & his employees are your servants, and they will serve you just as you went out of your way to bring & show them your guns.
If you walk away and not visit his shop ever again, you will be losing out and maybe suffering for it, so he wins.
If you go back, he must serve you, and you win.
Make him earn your respect, with good service, either by him or his employees. Even if you don't buy, it shows him that you're the boss each and every time that you go in there.
Show him that what happened doesn't bother you, and that you are a bigger & better man than him. It will bother him and his conscience in the end. And even if it doesn't, you will forever be a symbol of your forgiving and divine nature, at least to yourself and for all of TheHighRoaders.
That guy doesn't deserve to get off scott free.
Don't shut yourself out, and feel free to string him along a few times.
Sometimes those that don't get along at their first meeting become the best of friends, and just maybe he will try to make things right with you.
If he has something that you would like, somehow make him give you a good deal. Dangle some money in front of him and then hem and haw for a better price, then walk out and tell him that you want to think about it some more. Give him a good work over!
He'll want to sell you something eventually.
Hi Ho Silver....Away!
He must have empty guns pointed at him all of the time by customers.
Of course, it's not proper. But sometimes you just have to let your friends (& others) slide for being dumb.
Do I think that he was prejudiced? You bet I do! But so what, he's just a meaningless speck in your life. I'm glad that you didn't ask him why he wasn't interested in your guns since he was just yanking your chain the whole time anyway. But in my view, as much as I wouldn't want to patronize him again either if I was in your shoes, it's really wrong to feel that way. Why? Because he's there to serve you, and to meet your gun needs and interests. Just because he's a jerk, doesn't mean that you should suffer by not being able to walk back in there and look over his goods with your head held high. You should keep your enemies close, and now that you know him, use that to your psychological advantage and get some satisfaction out of it too.
I'm not saying that you should spend any money in his shop, but you should reserve yourself the right to walk in there and look around and fondle his guns and buy anything you chose to, anytime you feel like it. Remember, he's working for you. If you walk in there and want to hold some guns, do so. Him & his employees are your servants, and they will serve you just as you went out of your way to bring & show them your guns.
If you walk away and not visit his shop ever again, you will be losing out and maybe suffering for it, so he wins.
If you go back, he must serve you, and you win.
Make him earn your respect, with good service, either by him or his employees. Even if you don't buy, it shows him that you're the boss each and every time that you go in there.
Show him that what happened doesn't bother you, and that you are a bigger & better man than him. It will bother him and his conscience in the end. And even if it doesn't, you will forever be a symbol of your forgiving and divine nature, at least to yourself and for all of TheHighRoaders.
That guy doesn't deserve to get off scott free.
Don't shut yourself out, and feel free to string him along a few times.
Sometimes those that don't get along at their first meeting become the best of friends, and just maybe he will try to make things right with you.
If he has something that you would like, somehow make him give you a good deal. Dangle some money in front of him and then hem and haw for a better price, then walk out and tell him that you want to think about it some more. Give him a good work over!
He'll want to sell you something eventually.
Hi Ho Silver....Away!
Last edited:
TimboKhan
Member
For all the talk about Jewish liberals, it is important to note that the JPFO is rabidly pro-2A. Just my opinion, but I think the JPFO is more hardcore about 2A rights than the NRA, even.
mike101
Member
If these people were enthusiastic about your guns while you were wearing a ball cap, but wouldn't even look at them when you were wearing your yarmulka, that sure sounds like anti-semitism to me. I don't care what kind of mood you're in, business is business.
Surprising, though. Glen-Burnie isn't exactly a hick town.
As an experiment, try going back, sporting your yarmulka, and browse. Then ask to see a gun. See what their attitude is. If it still sucks, screw 'em. Don't go back, and bad mouth them all over town. You might even write a letter to the editor of the local paper about your experience. Editors love stories about discrimination, especially in a liberal state like MD. That'll learn 'em.
Surprising, though. Glen-Burnie isn't exactly a hick town.
As an experiment, try going back, sporting your yarmulka, and browse. Then ask to see a gun. See what their attitude is. If it still sucks, screw 'em. Don't go back, and bad mouth them all over town. You might even write a letter to the editor of the local paper about your experience. Editors love stories about discrimination, especially in a liberal state like MD. That'll learn 'em.
MountainPeak
Member
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2002
- Messages
- 784
I like mike101's idea on how to handle the situation.
Happyshooter
member
1. Yes. Judgments have to be made based on how people chose to dress. Around these parts the folks who dress like that bat for the far left team.
2. I forgot what yarmulkes were called.
chaim
Member
And the only judgements you can accurately make about a person who is wearing a yarmulke is that they are Jewish, religious, and mostly likely Orthodox.happyshooter said:
Really? Exactly how did you come to that conclusion? Did you actually talk to a bunch of guys who wear a yarmukle or is it that you know that someone wearing a yarmulke is Jewish and assume that Jewish=liberal?happyshooter said:
As I said before, the vast majority of those who wear a yarmulke while out and about (not just while in synagogue) are Orthodox. The VAST majority of Orthodox Jews are EXTREMELY conservative. Most would make you or me look like raging liberals. As for "around here", there are quite a few Orthodox Jews in Detroit and other Midwest cities. There are even smaller Orthodox communities in smaller cities in MI, not all MI Orthodox Jews are in Detroit. Again, the vast majority (like 90+%) of those who wear a yarmulke are Orthodox. So, most likely most folks who dress like that around there are quite right wing.
Umm, it was only in the first post (and several others) in this thread.happyshooter said:
rangerruck
Member
anyway, to follow my previous post, I say , give the store another chance, and don't give them any wiggle room , let them know you are about guns, you like guns, and you have those previous guns, and are allways thinking about more guns. If they still give you the brush off, then exit their store, and wipe the bottom of your shoes off, on their welcome mat. Meshiach will take care of the rest.
Happyshooter
member
Yes. Ooops.
The several times a year I see one, he is with the Democrat State Party, or the UAW national headquarters team. Both hate everything that is not far left.
Our local Beth (the temple?) closed a few years ago.
As for clothing choices, that is the best way to judge people. Wearing a tie and tan pants with no tats? Likely the muffler store manager or a CPA, and a good middle class guy.
Wearing ghetto jeans sagging with the pockets at the knee level and a Bears jacket? Watch for shoplifting.
TimboKhan
Member
Judinging someone by the clothes he or she wears is one way to be wrong about people on a consistent basis. I just (unhappily) spent $650.00 on a suit, which means that if you would see me in it you would think "Hey, theres a guy in a suit. I bet he is an upstanding citizen". Then the next day, you see me in cargo shorts, a baseball cap and a t-shirt with my several tattoos being visible, and your going to judge me differently? Why? Trust me dude, if you go into a cowboy bar, not many of those people are actual cowboys, despite the dress.
As it happens, I really represent neither of those stereotypes. I am a college graduate, a Marine, a Christian, a Republican and an overall nice guy. That I am 6'1, 400 pounds and have an earring and tattoos changes none of that.
Look, I am not an idiot. I know that to some extent we are judged on personal appearance. I didn't buy the expensive suit because I wanted to, I bought it to look appropriate in interviews. I wouldn't wear a Slayer shirt to church, either. But, to judge people by how they dress based on the fact that criminals of this era tend to dress a certain way is wrong. It would be like us being judged by the fact that people use guns to commit crimes, which when it does happen enrages us all.
In short, wearing baggy jeans does not make someone a criminal anymore than going to church makes someone a Christian, being a white southerner makes someone a racist, or owning guns makes someone a criminal.
Morally, ethically, AND in a perfect world the above stand is absolutely, 100% the right stand.
BUT - we don't live in a perfect world.
Put 9,999 blue balls and one red ball in a barrel. Reach in and draw a ball. Draw a blue ball and continue on about your business; draw a red ball though and you get to DIE! Would any reasonable person take that chance knowing that there's absolutely nothing to be gained by reaching into the barrel but the chance, no matter how slight, of a whole lot to lose? Not I!
Real life is the same. Ignore the fact that someone is dressed like a criminal and 9,999 times you may come out all right. It's that 10,000th time that will get you dead.
That very practical reality is why so many on this forum carry a concealed weapon. They hope never to have to use it - and most never will - but it's that one time in 10,000 when it is needed that saves them.
Personally I'd rather ignore or maybe even anger or annoy 9,999 law abiding citizens who choose to dress like a criminal and stay alive than risk that 1 chance in 10,000 of being made dead because I blissfully chose to treat everyone the same regardless of how they dressed.
The point is that if you don't want to be treated like a potential threat then don't dress like one.
Of course how one treats another that dresses like a scumbag, criminal or other lowlife is up to each individual. Odds are you'll make it through life just fine treating them like law abiding citizens; odds are...
TimboKhan
Member
The problem is that is isn't 1 out of 10,000. Dressing like a thug is in fashion whether we like it or not.
That 10,000th time also might be when the guy dressed like a welder comes and stabs you in the face. I understand what your saying, and I am not quite as naive as I may sound, but the very simple fact of the matter is that you should be on alert for everyone, not just the thug kids. Assuming that everyone that commits a crime dresses like a thug is just as dumb as assuming that all criminals will dress like the hamburglar. Watch "COPS" sometime: The better portion of the people that are arrested on that show are not dressed like thugs, although some are.
I try my hardest to treat everyone I come into contact with with respect. Your absolutely right, Werewolf: The odds are that I will make it through life just fine treating people how I want to be treated. I carry a concealed weapon to protect against those times that plan fails. You can be friendly and respectful to someone while still remaining alert. Frankly, if I were really worried about the odds of something interrupting me geting though life just fine, I probably wouldn't ever leave the house. If I did, I certainly wouldn't drive a car . I would never have a beer or enjoy a chew. I am not being sarcastic as much I am just pointing out that treating people respectfully is a calculated risk that I am willing to take.
That 10,000th time also might be when the guy dressed like a welder comes and stabs you in the face. I understand what your saying, and I am not quite as naive as I may sound, but the very simple fact of the matter is that you should be on alert for everyone, not just the thug kids. Assuming that everyone that commits a crime dresses like a thug is just as dumb as assuming that all criminals will dress like the hamburglar. Watch "COPS" sometime: The better portion of the people that are arrested on that show are not dressed like thugs, although some are.
I try my hardest to treat everyone I come into contact with with respect. Your absolutely right, Werewolf: The odds are that I will make it through life just fine treating people how I want to be treated. I carry a concealed weapon to protect against those times that plan fails. You can be friendly and respectful to someone while still remaining alert. Frankly, if I were really worried about the odds of something interrupting me geting though life just fine, I probably wouldn't ever leave the house. If I did, I certainly wouldn't drive a car . I would never have a beer or enjoy a chew. I am not being sarcastic as much I am just pointing out that treating people respectfully is a calculated risk that I am willing to take.
chaim
Member
Werewolf, I think in a way you are both right. You are right, not everyone who dresses that way (like a gangbanger for instance) is a criminal, most aren't, but most gangbangers dress that way. If you completely ignore them you may be making a mistake.
TimboKhan, certainly it is one of the more popular styles in most of today's highschools and maybe even beyond to a slightly older crowd. A substantial number of kids today dress this way. So, to assume a certain look means someone is a criminal is a mistake.
So, what to do...I think it has to do with situational awareness. We shouldn't be in "Condition White" all the time anyway, we should be aware of our surroundings, who is nearby, and how they are acting. If a clothing style gets your attention, fine. Pay a little more attention to that person. However, in the context of the thread, that is all that is OK. It is acceptable to pay a little more attention, it is not acceptable to change how you treat the person.
So, you don't even know one person who wears a yarmulke, because you've seen two people on TV you make an assumption about all of us. I've already made clear (as someone who knows a LOT of Orthodox Jews) that the vast majority of us are pretty right wing, and most people who wear a yarmulke are Orthodox. But your non-experience (pre-judgements) about us outweight my real-life experience? We must be liberals because those two guys on TV are liberals?
OK, lets extend your logic. Around here most people are registered Democrats and very liberal (MD is between 2-1 and 3-1 registered Democrat). Most people who wear a yarmulke either don't care about politics (the government is too corrupt for us to dirty our hands dealing with it) or they are VERY right wing. Most people (based on registration, especially here in central MD) are left wing. So most people without a yarmulke around here is a lefty. Should I assume all people I see without a yarmulke are far-left? Of course not. However, it makes as much (maybe more) sense than what you are doing.
TimboKhan, certainly it is one of the more popular styles in most of today's highschools and maybe even beyond to a slightly older crowd. A substantial number of kids today dress this way. So, to assume a certain look means someone is a criminal is a mistake.
So, what to do...I think it has to do with situational awareness. We shouldn't be in "Condition White" all the time anyway, we should be aware of our surroundings, who is nearby, and how they are acting. If a clothing style gets your attention, fine. Pay a little more attention to that person. However, in the context of the thread, that is all that is OK. It is acceptable to pay a little more attention, it is not acceptable to change how you treat the person.
happyshooter said:
So, you don't even know one person who wears a yarmulke, because you've seen two people on TV you make an assumption about all of us. I've already made clear (as someone who knows a LOT of Orthodox Jews) that the vast majority of us are pretty right wing, and most people who wear a yarmulke are Orthodox. But your non-experience (pre-judgements) about us outweight my real-life experience? We must be liberals because those two guys on TV are liberals?
OK, lets extend your logic. Around here most people are registered Democrats and very liberal (MD is between 2-1 and 3-1 registered Democrat). Most people who wear a yarmulke either don't care about politics (the government is too corrupt for us to dirty our hands dealing with it) or they are VERY right wing. Most people (based on registration, especially here in central MD) are left wing. So most people without a yarmulke around here is a lefty. Should I assume all people I see without a yarmulke are far-left? Of course not. However, it makes as much (maybe more) sense than what you are doing.
chaim
Member
Moderators,
I posed on here simply as a rant. I don't let people I don't know get me down, it was simply since sometimes we see posts here complaining about bad customer service at gunshops, and this happened at a gunshop, I figured I'd just post a little rant and get it out of my system. I certainly didn't expect it to generate so much energy.
Right now we have two valued members getting into an unnecessary argument brought on by my thread, and a couple members said some pretty stupid things. I think the thread may be getting out of hand, and is certainly going well beyond my intentions. Before anyone else gets into trouble, would it be possible to close the thread since it has already served its purpose.
Thanks
I posed on here simply as a rant. I don't let people I don't know get me down, it was simply since sometimes we see posts here complaining about bad customer service at gunshops, and this happened at a gunshop, I figured I'd just post a little rant and get it out of my system. I certainly didn't expect it to generate so much energy.
Right now we have two valued members getting into an unnecessary argument brought on by my thread, and a couple members said some pretty stupid things. I think the thread may be getting out of hand, and is certainly going well beyond my intentions. Before anyone else gets into trouble, would it be possible to close the thread since it has already served its purpose.
Thanks
The gun shop owner could have been Muslim. Maybe he has relatives in the West Bank and wasn't exactly doing cart wheels to see you. (Before you say "but he was a white guy"- who says you can't have white Muslims?)
Or maybe he was just a regular jerk. I have run into a lot of gun shop owners with attitudes and never played the race/religion card over it.
Or maybe he was just a regular jerk. I have run into a lot of gun shop owners with attitudes and never played the race/religion card over it.
Lonestar49
Member
Bad Day, Off day.. BS
...
Personally, I "feel" like I know the answer to them being nice, then being sub-human.. It doesn't matter, as you're done EVER doing any business with them again, as am I with one gunstore, for the following and I feel great about it, cause it cost them 2, and more, gun sales, plus other goodies. $$$$$
Where I bought my first 4 handguns, same place, when I went to buy some goodies, my sales clerk said, "hey LS, its been 30 days since your last gun pick-up, lets register your gun now." I said, hmmm, don't think so, I said, but he said, "I'm sure of it".. so we registered my wife's first gun, a Sig P232 SL 380.. Well, I waited the 10 days for the DOJ report to clear, went in at the right time and day, and my clerk was off, so another, nice guy, went to get my gun. While I was waiting, looking at some used guns on the other-side of the room, suddenly a loud voice yells, MR. LS !!
Rather stunned, I turned, saw some guy with an attitude all over his face and eyes looking at me as I responded, and walked over. He proceeds to talk LOUD, abrupt, and in a hostile tone, as too, saying: "You tried to by a gun illegally somewhere else, your DOJ was denied, where did you try and buy the gun?"
I can tell you right now, if their had been anyway I could have gotten back my full down payment on that gun, I would have in a heart beat.. But knowing that wouldn't happen without a min 75 dollar charge, I told him flat out, so all the customers, 10 or more, could also hear MY response.. "to lose the attitude, I don't know what your talking about, as I have only bought 3 guns, all from YOU, and this is my 4th, chk your paperwork out.."
He left, then came back, unapologetic, still with face, tone, and attitude, and said, it was my fault, that "I registered the gun 2 days too soon.." to which I said, "not my fault" and told him of the clerk telling me it was time..
He then stormed away, and came back 2 mins later, at the top of his voice and said: (to all his clerks, all 3 that day) "IT is the customers responsibility to know the correct day to register their guns with the DOJ, NOT YOURS.."
That was the last day I ever bought anything from them, less 20 days later when my DOJ cleared, and I picked up my last gun from them..
Since then, as I said, I have bought 2 more guns, ammo, goodies, from their arch rival, and for less, gun for gun cost, by a simple phone call to that manager, wasting his time with, "how much do you guys get for this model?", and you can hear his frustration/tone, when he says "hold on, I'll get you a clerk.." as I'm doing this..
knowing I'm wasting his time, and beating his prices.
Last laugh is on me, along with, I can sway (10 people) anyone I talk too to not buy there, no problem and, on the other hand, I can convince at least half of those, to buy at the other store I buy from now..
It's how you deal and treat those Caught UP in their own Life's troubles, that like to take it out on others.. and that works ONLY once with me, per human.
LS
...
Personally, I "feel" like I know the answer to them being nice, then being sub-human.. It doesn't matter, as you're done EVER doing any business with them again, as am I with one gunstore, for the following and I feel great about it, cause it cost them 2, and more, gun sales, plus other goodies. $$$$$
Where I bought my first 4 handguns, same place, when I went to buy some goodies, my sales clerk said, "hey LS, its been 30 days since your last gun pick-up, lets register your gun now." I said, hmmm, don't think so, I said, but he said, "I'm sure of it".. so we registered my wife's first gun, a Sig P232 SL 380.. Well, I waited the 10 days for the DOJ report to clear, went in at the right time and day, and my clerk was off, so another, nice guy, went to get my gun. While I was waiting, looking at some used guns on the other-side of the room, suddenly a loud voice yells, MR. LS !!
Rather stunned, I turned, saw some guy with an attitude all over his face and eyes looking at me as I responded, and walked over. He proceeds to talk LOUD, abrupt, and in a hostile tone, as too, saying: "You tried to by a gun illegally somewhere else, your DOJ was denied, where did you try and buy the gun?"
I can tell you right now, if their had been anyway I could have gotten back my full down payment on that gun, I would have in a heart beat.. But knowing that wouldn't happen without a min 75 dollar charge, I told him flat out, so all the customers, 10 or more, could also hear MY response.. "to lose the attitude, I don't know what your talking about, as I have only bought 3 guns, all from YOU, and this is my 4th, chk your paperwork out.."
He left, then came back, unapologetic, still with face, tone, and attitude, and said, it was my fault, that "I registered the gun 2 days too soon.." to which I said, "not my fault" and told him of the clerk telling me it was time..
He then stormed away, and came back 2 mins later, at the top of his voice and said: (to all his clerks, all 3 that day) "IT is the customers responsibility to know the correct day to register their guns with the DOJ, NOT YOURS.."
That was the last day I ever bought anything from them, less 20 days later when my DOJ cleared, and I picked up my last gun from them..
Since then, as I said, I have bought 2 more guns, ammo, goodies, from their arch rival, and for less, gun for gun cost, by a simple phone call to that manager, wasting his time with, "how much do you guys get for this model?", and you can hear his frustration/tone, when he says "hold on, I'll get you a clerk.." as I'm doing this..
knowing I'm wasting his time, and beating his prices.Last laugh is on me, along with, I can sway (10 people) anyone I talk too to not buy there, no problem and, on the other hand, I can convince at least half of those, to buy at the other store I buy from now..
It's how you deal and treat those Caught UP in their own Life's troubles, that like to take it out on others.. and that works ONLY once with me, per human.
LS
Veering way off topic.
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