Glockman17366
Member
Chaim, I'm not too far from you (live in Windsor).
What gunshop was this, if I may ask?
You can PM tha answer, if you prefer...
What gunshop was this, if I may ask?
You can PM tha answer, if you prefer...
Bad experience at a gun shop
- Thread starter chaim
- Start date
- Status
If Chaim says that the guys in the gunshop were motivated by anti-semitism then you can bet a dollar to a doughnut that he knows whereof he speaks.
Here's why I believe that:
I'm a middle class white guy. I grew up when racial prejudice in this country and anti-semitism were not only the norm but accepted. Luckily my parents raised me to judge a person by their actions and not what they looked like.
Prejudice was and is abhorrent to me and until a few years back I believed I understood it and could empathize with those it was directed at.
I WAS WRONG!
Until you've actually experienced real prejudice IMO you cannot understand it's impact on those subjected to it or empathize with those that experience it.
How do I know this. Believe it or not from personal experience.
I love oriental food - Korean in particular. Here in OKC we have not a few specialty grocery stores run by Koreans. Now these aren't your run of the mill specialty grocery stores. They're korean stores run by and for koreans. No english in them. The signs on the outside of the store are in Korean. These guys haven't been assimilated and don't want to be assimilated. There are a few of them that when you shop in one it becomes obvious real quick they don't want us round eyes in there. Their attitude, the way they speak to you when they deign to even do that, their reluctance to help you find what you want, the way they handle the money you hand them - all points to them being anti-whitey. And not just anti-whitey but actual and projected disdain.
Believe me when I say - I developed a whole new outlook on racial prejudice and how it can make one feel after having to deal with it in those stores a number of times. It isn't a pleasant experience and it is pretty obvious when it is happening and I'm talking just being subjected to some rude behavior and open disdain. Having to deal with job discrimination, housing discrimination and all the rest... It makes me wonder how minorities have put up with that BS for so long?
I believe Chaim when he says his treatment was due to anti-semitism and not just rudeness.
Here's why I believe that:
I'm a middle class white guy. I grew up when racial prejudice in this country and anti-semitism were not only the norm but accepted. Luckily my parents raised me to judge a person by their actions and not what they looked like.
Prejudice was and is abhorrent to me and until a few years back I believed I understood it and could empathize with those it was directed at.
I WAS WRONG!
Until you've actually experienced real prejudice IMO you cannot understand it's impact on those subjected to it or empathize with those that experience it.
How do I know this. Believe it or not from personal experience.
I love oriental food - Korean in particular. Here in OKC we have not a few specialty grocery stores run by Koreans. Now these aren't your run of the mill specialty grocery stores. They're korean stores run by and for koreans. No english in them. The signs on the outside of the store are in Korean. These guys haven't been assimilated and don't want to be assimilated. There are a few of them that when you shop in one it becomes obvious real quick they don't want us round eyes in there. Their attitude, the way they speak to you when they deign to even do that, their reluctance to help you find what you want, the way they handle the money you hand them - all points to them being anti-whitey. And not just anti-whitey but actual and projected disdain.
Believe me when I say - I developed a whole new outlook on racial prejudice and how it can make one feel after having to deal with it in those stores a number of times. It isn't a pleasant experience and it is pretty obvious when it is happening and I'm talking just being subjected to some rude behavior and open disdain. Having to deal with job discrimination, housing discrimination and all the rest... It makes me wonder how minorities have put up with that BS for so long?
I believe Chaim when he says his treatment was due to anti-semitism and not just rudeness.
tinygnat219
Member
Go back in with the baseball cap and the same guns and see what happens.
HUMONGO
Member
Could not have said it better myself. Their prices are kinda high, but they are great with customer service and have a wide selection. Plus, I see Jews in there almost every time I go.
jack the toad
Member
It does sound like they were prejudice toward you and that stuff does unfortunately happen. Your rant is justifiable.
I'm certainly not advocating their behaviour, but they were exercising their right to refuse (in an inappropriate way) service to you. You in turn have the right not to do business with them.
What else can you do?
I'm certainly not advocating their behaviour, but they were exercising their right to refuse (in an inappropriate way) service to you. You in turn have the right not to do business with them.
What else can you do?
Deanimator
Member
I see this with some gun people. I see it with hard core anti-gun people too.
Scum is scum.
Take your business elsewhere and badmouth them freely.
Scum is scum.
Take your business elsewhere and badmouth them freely.
Blackbeard
Member
Or better yet, a big cowboy hat.
MIL-DOT
member
i agree with jdkelly's statement :" I’ve found gun shop owners to be some of the most rude and moody retailers I’ve dealt with. Some times I think I appear to be a valued customer in their eyes and the next visit I’m treated to as a threat."
i never see the atitude and arrogance in a dive shop or a bike store that i seem to often encounter from gun store owners. i've noticed it for years and could never figure it out.
but as to your situation, if it happened as you describe, i'm leaning toward them having a problem with your headwear and heritage,so screw 'em ! long live israel !!
i never see the atitude and arrogance in a dive shop or a bike store that i seem to often encounter from gun store owners. i've noticed it for years and could never figure it out.
but as to your situation, if it happened as you describe, i'm leaning toward them having a problem with your headwear and heritage,so screw 'em ! long live israel !!
Prince Yamato
Member
Chiam, I say you should go back to the shop, but this time, dressed in full Saudi Arab garb and try to sell them a WASR. Repeatedly ask to sell the gun. Everytime they try to deny you respond, "Bismillah! Hu Kafir!" If they call the cops, take off your headdress, reveal your yamulke and with the biggest grin you can manage, utter, "Shalom boys!" 
madmattmd
Member
Chaim, would you care to share the name of the shop?
BTW, any specifics on the Model 586 you have for sale? I have two, but, I’d be willing to look at another.
Thanks,
Matt
BTW, any specifics on the Model 586 you have for sale? I have two, but, I’d be willing to look at another.
Thanks,
Matt
budney
member
Chaim, switch the kipa for a baseball cap and try again in another few days. Then tell us how it went. Especially if it goes well next time, let us know what shop it was so we can avoid giving them any business.
--Len.
--Len.
03Shadowbob
Member
My opinion only but unless they called you a slang term for Jewish then I would think long and hard before labelling someone as a Race monger or worse.
Do you think you are the only orthodox jew in the country and that they have never sold a gun to one?
The only way you can be somewhat sure is if you put your cap back on and go back. Even then, that doesn't mean a hill of beans.
I personally can't stand when someone labels another person as something based on a hunch.
Do you think you are the only orthodox jew in the country and that they have never sold a gun to one?
The only way you can be somewhat sure is if you put your cap back on and go back. Even then, that doesn't mean a hill of beans.
I personally can't stand when someone labels another person as something based on a hunch.
tegemu
Member
Chaim, reading your posts it is patently obvious that you are a very intelligent man with a penchant for good writing. Perhaps you could put these talents to work by broadcasting this shop's bigotry and ignorance, in a manner that would not open yourself up to some form of retribution, 'twould be good for them.
larry_minn
Member
Only read first couple posts. I am sorry they treated you this way.
Personally I would call the shop and talk to owner. Let him know how you felt and give him a chance to apoligize. If he does not tell everyone you know to avoid that shop. BUT to call the shop afterwards and tell them what you bought elsewhere.
I did this for a business that put up a "No weapons allowed" sign on door. Every time I bought at a competitor down the street I would call them on my cell on way home and list the items I bought 60yds from their store. (only a thousand bucks a yr max) they soon changed their ways. A couple friends said they also called with same. (no way I could check) but it worked.
Personally I would call the shop and talk to owner. Let him know how you felt and give him a chance to apoligize. If he does not tell everyone you know to avoid that shop. BUT to call the shop afterwards and tell them what you bought elsewhere.
I did this for a business that put up a "No weapons allowed" sign on door. Every time I bought at a competitor down the street I would call them on my cell on way home and list the items I bought 60yds from their store. (only a thousand bucks a yr max) they soon changed their ways. A couple friends said they also called with same. (no way I could check) but it worked.
Neo-Luddite
Member
Gun shops thrive on referals and word of mouth. Take your business elsewhere. If you're feeling like there might be some misunderstanding or correction needed, call the owner of the gun shop and lay it out for him.
It would be a stretch to bet that it would do any good--but you could at least know you made the effort to let them set things right.
It would be a stretch to bet that it would do any good--but you could at least know you made the effort to let them set things right.
Notch
Member
"Yep, some gun owners mistreated you, it must be antisemitism."
See... Ya dont even have to walk into bubbas gunshop to deal with bubba.
See... Ya dont even have to walk into bubbas gunshop to deal with bubba.
I've read the OP, and the subsequent responses on this thread.
If I had to bet on it, I'd go the route that the shop workers/owners were acting in a prejudice manner.
Equally so, I won't completely dismiss the possibility that those individuals were having an off day.
Often we-- being absorbed in ourselves-- seem to think that we are the only dynamic persons in the world. For some reason, we expect that other persons do not have "off" days. For all I know, they just found out thier insurance went up 30% or any number of factors that could have contributed to a foul mood. Some of those factors may have contributed to no longer seeing it financially attractive to purchase somone's guns. Regardless, it isn't professional and it only hurts their business. At the same time it is part of the human condition to do things that are harmful to ourselves and to others on occassion.
Now that said.
I was not raised to harbor hate for anyone of any race and/or religion. While I will not say that I don't have some prejudices, I strive to be above them.
Whether we like it or not, prejudice is part of the human condition as well. I've met people of all races, religions, sexual orientation, geographical regions, and political affiliations that were prejudice and/or blatently racist. No one has a monopoly on it.
I don't know. I often think that we practice cognitive dissonance when dealing with prejudice in our culture. While I don't like prejudice, I would like to see us recognize that prejudice is in all of us, and approach it from that reality.
I'll illustrate just from my own experiences (I am NOT attempting to stir the pot or target anyone or group.):
--I used to date a Syrian college professor who basically explained to me that I would never meet her family because they would be outraged that she was seeing an "Infidel."
--With my first wife, there was an uproar in her family when it was discovered that I was Protestant as opposed to Catholic. We were unable to be married by a Priest and could not be married in a Catholic Church.
--A friend and coworker of mine had me and a guest over for dinner once. This friend was Orthodox Jewish. When I told him that I would bring the wine, he requested that I make an effort to ensure that the wine was Kosher. Intriqued, I did a bit of research to determine what constituted a Kosher wine as opposed to a non-Kosher wine. It seems that Kosher wines are largely the same as a non-Kosher one with one exception-- from the picking of the grape to the bottling of the wine, it has never been touched by Non-Jewish hands. This was an effort to prevent intermarrying of Jewish persons with Non-Jewish persons.
Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_wine
The point of this? There's a lot of prejudice to go around. Obviously, I left out many groups from the above examples. Indeed, I left out my own race, my own religion, etc. I don't do that in a belief that a group that I belong to is somehow immune to it. We are all guilty.
So what if they were prejudiced? My simple answer is to not do business with them or associate with them. And I don't think I'd like them too much either.
On thing we have failed to understand in such things as the war in Iraq is that you cannot win a war of ideologies with bullets. Nor can one force another person to believe, percieve, or relate in any particular way.
I hate it that the OP had a this run-in with prejudice.
-- John
If I had to bet on it, I'd go the route that the shop workers/owners were acting in a prejudice manner.
Equally so, I won't completely dismiss the possibility that those individuals were having an off day.
Often we-- being absorbed in ourselves-- seem to think that we are the only dynamic persons in the world. For some reason, we expect that other persons do not have "off" days. For all I know, they just found out thier insurance went up 30% or any number of factors that could have contributed to a foul mood. Some of those factors may have contributed to no longer seeing it financially attractive to purchase somone's guns. Regardless, it isn't professional and it only hurts their business. At the same time it is part of the human condition to do things that are harmful to ourselves and to others on occassion.
Now that said.
I was not raised to harbor hate for anyone of any race and/or religion. While I will not say that I don't have some prejudices, I strive to be above them.
Whether we like it or not, prejudice is part of the human condition as well. I've met people of all races, religions, sexual orientation, geographical regions, and political affiliations that were prejudice and/or blatently racist. No one has a monopoly on it.
I don't know. I often think that we practice cognitive dissonance when dealing with prejudice in our culture. While I don't like prejudice, I would like to see us recognize that prejudice is in all of us, and approach it from that reality.
I'll illustrate just from my own experiences (I am NOT attempting to stir the pot or target anyone or group.):
--I used to date a Syrian college professor who basically explained to me that I would never meet her family because they would be outraged that she was seeing an "Infidel."
--With my first wife, there was an uproar in her family when it was discovered that I was Protestant as opposed to Catholic. We were unable to be married by a Priest and could not be married in a Catholic Church.
--A friend and coworker of mine had me and a guest over for dinner once. This friend was Orthodox Jewish. When I told him that I would bring the wine, he requested that I make an effort to ensure that the wine was Kosher. Intriqued, I did a bit of research to determine what constituted a Kosher wine as opposed to a non-Kosher wine. It seems that Kosher wines are largely the same as a non-Kosher one with one exception-- from the picking of the grape to the bottling of the wine, it has never been touched by Non-Jewish hands. This was an effort to prevent intermarrying of Jewish persons with Non-Jewish persons.
Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_wine
The point of this? There's a lot of prejudice to go around. Obviously, I left out many groups from the above examples. Indeed, I left out my own race, my own religion, etc. I don't do that in a belief that a group that I belong to is somehow immune to it. We are all guilty.
So what if they were prejudiced? My simple answer is to not do business with them or associate with them. And I don't think I'd like them too much either.
On thing we have failed to understand in such things as the war in Iraq is that you cannot win a war of ideologies with bullets. Nor can one force another person to believe, percieve, or relate in any particular way.
I hate it that the OP had a this run-in with prejudice.
-- John
budney
member
I still say, try again with the baseball cap. Then we'll know.
If you REALLY want confirmation, go back ONE MORE TIME in kipa, talit and tefillin...
If you REALLY want confirmation, go back ONE MORE TIME in kipa, talit and tefillin...
115grfmj
Member
Don't let those J#ck *sses get you down.....
and I know there are a lot of horses end's in the world
:banghead:. Let me start by saying that I'm not Jewish, I'm Catholic. My view in the world is that we need people of all types in our hobby. The best thing you can do is what I would do if I received poor service from any gunshop. Don't go there again and tell everyone who'll listen why. Jerks are just jerks....hit'em in the pocket book where it hurts
!
and I know there are a lot of horses end's in the world
:banghead:. Let me start by saying that I'm not Jewish, I'm Catholic. My view in the world is that we need people of all types in our hobby. The best thing you can do is what I would do if I received poor service from any gunshop. Don't go there again and tell everyone who'll listen why. Jerks are just jerks....hit'em in the pocket book where it hurts!115grfmj
Member
Also personally....
If anyone points the muzzle of a weapon at you with his finger on the trigger
....side step and smack it away if you can......Then call the police ask them for the survellance tape (as they are required to have one), and press charges for assault (with a deadly weapon), have the cop add "Bias" to the charge. Will it work....who knows...but it'll add a heck of a tab with the guys lawyer trying to sort it out.
If anyone points the muzzle of a weapon at you with his finger on the trigger
....side step and smack it away if you can......Then call the police ask them for the survellance tape (as they are required to have one), and press charges for assault (with a deadly weapon), have the cop add "Bias" to the charge. Will it work....who knows...but it'll add a heck of a tab with the guys lawyer trying to sort it out.- Status
Similar threads
