Bad Gun Store Experience

[mgkdrgn]

Transfers are near pure profit, aren't they?

Hardly any time or effort required for the shop.

(heavy sigh) ... if only that were true ... and my time was worth nothing

Mostly just storage taken up.

Yep, for the next 20 YEARS, and you're expected to be able to produce that paperwork on a moments notice during those 20 years.

 

[jerkface11]

$25 for doing a transfer or $0 for doing nothing. Hard decision.

 

[vamo]

Nonsense. My LGS charges $75 for a new gun and $50 for a used one, plus the $10 background check. They're not the only store in town yet do plenty of transfers.

$85 to buy a new gun online is pretty freaking expensive, their store and they're entitled to charge what they want, but I personally wouldn't be using them for transfers especially since they have the nerve to itemize it as 75 for transfer 10 for bgc.

 

[TennJed]

Nonsense. My LGS charges $75 for a new gun and $50 for a used one, plus the $10 background check. They're not the only store in town yet do plenty of transfers.

I am curious as to how you know they do plenty of transfers

 

[dogtown tom]

Tirod

Quote:
I say that the market will supply all the cheap transfers we want thru the kitchen table FFLs who work from home and don't have to pay for brick and mortar.

Most of them were run off when the BATF raised the fees....

Only those not actually engaged in business were "run off".

Doubtful that a fee increase caused the drop in licensees.....since the fee went from $12 a year to $90 every three years. If you can't handle $90 every three years you probably shouldn't be in business anyway.

Most likely they chose to not renew because they could not legally operate a business at their licensed premises or refused to obtain a sales tax permit or business license.

BTW...."kitchen table" dealers greatly outnumber "brick and mortar" dealers.

 

[mgkdrgn]

BTW...."kitchen table" dealers greatly outnumber "brick and mortar" dealers.

Yes we do!

PS ... I do business in my garage, not my kitchen table, so ..

 

[ljnowell]

Nonsense. My LGS charges $75 for a new gun and $50 for a used one, plus the $10 background check. They're not the only store in town yet do plenty of transfers.

Just because your guy is more outrageous doesn't make his reasonable. We have three LGS in my area. Two are 25 and one is 35.

 

[1911 guy]

Every time I read one of these threads, it makes me glad to have a good shop within easy driving distance. 25 minutes from my house i have Stockers Gun Shop in Champion, Oh. No, I'm not affiliated in any way, except as a customer. They are seldom the cheapest, but I'll pay an extra 10 or fifteen dollars on a gun or couple percent on ammo to get a big selection, helpful and informed salespeople and no BS about what they can and cannot get for me.

I have walked in and said I wanted a rifle to fill a need. They went through the inventory and found something i was happy with. On another occasion, I walked in and asked for a specific rifle. They didn't have it. Rather than try to get me to buy what was on the shelf, they took my 10% deposit (clearly posted policy for special orders) and placed my order to their distributor.

 

[OARNGESI]

I never understood ffls that complain about transfers if they don't make enough from a transfer either raise there price out stop offering the service.

 

[PabloJ]

This guy acted like he was moving heaven and earth for 25$. He told me it's not worth the cost in labor. Even though when I came in the guy was standing there shooting the breeze with another employee.

They should have charged what they quoted you which was $25. I would not lift a finger for $25 never mind handling paperwork and hustle. I wish they took gun shop out of Bud's it seems to be place like Amazon.com not a true gun shop at all.

 

[Tirod]

When the rules changed, we lost most of the kitchen table dealers, as the rest had to prove a place of business and operating hours. At least that is the continued point by the BATF in issuing licenses.

Further, the few kitchen table dealers don't even advertise. I've yet to see "$25 internet FFL transfers, call 1-myareacodeandnumber." At least that could give the appearance of trying to be in business, which the BATF is attempting to force. Hence the requirement to collect and report sales tax, hold local licenses, etc.

Add those annual fees to holding the FFL, to, it's not a cheap hobby.

As for the OP, he didn't get stuck for the $50 charge, he successfully negotiated with the clerk and got it reduced. Let's not assume said clerk was working entirely on his own recognizance. Again, it was a transaction conducted over weeks of time, and he answers to the owner. It's quite likely getting a gun shipped in without expecting it - just forgot or whatever - made the owner consider the situation. He very well may have instructed his up front guy to ask for $50 in the future, and when the OP showed up, he did. The clerk very well may have been doing his job as required. Some owners with "buddies" who constantly take advantage of the relationship figure out ways to communicate they aren't happy about how they get used, or abused.

We keep banging away at the poor clerk when the real situation was doing his bosses dirty work. Frankly, not every customer is worth all the hand holding and high maintenance they demand - and those of us who actually work retail can give you about 100 pages of our anecdotes justifying what the clerk may have been doing.

Otherwise, it's a he said she said situation, and whether or not the negative future business was intended, that well may be the result. Choose whatever side you like, but don't insist it has to be your way or the highway, as we have no clue or statement from the other side at all. There very well may be details being left off the table.

I still stand on what I said - after weeks of waiting for delivery, more could have been done to nail down the details and prevent it. A third party arranged this deal with only one perfunctory conversation on the part of the OP. Is that the way you would do it?

 

[larryh1108]

Further, the few kitchen table dealers don't even advertise. I've yet to see "$25 internet FFL transfers, call 1-myareacodeandnumber."

I really don't know where you get your information but a simple search of the Springfield, MO area shows A LOT of cheap transfers starting at $15 (see link below). There is also a pawn shop that has no fee ($0) in Springfield.

Maybe you tried to get a home FFL years ago but you cannot get one if your city or town does not allow home businesses or your HOA prohibits it. Getting a business license is cheap and easy if you have no local restrictions to deal with and getting a FFL is also cheap and easy if you pass all the local requirements. I can't count the number I've seen in IL and CT because they are all over the place.

link for Springfield, MO area FFLs with prices and services
There's 100 within 50 miles of Springfield:

http://www.gunbroker.com/FFL/SearchForFFL.aspx?st=Zip Code&sv=65806

 

[GBExpat]

I still stand on what I said - after weeks of waiting for delivery, more could have been done to nail down the details and prevent it. A third party arranged this deal with only one perfunctory conversation on the part of the OP. Is that the way you would do it?

After confirming with the LGS that xfers were $25 I would tell them that I was going to be having a firearm shipped to them.

If it took weeks to be delivered, I would not be contacting the LGS (they probably haven't even noted that something is supposed to be delivered), at most I would be contacting Bud's Gun Shop about the reason for the delay.

The only time I would keep in touch with the person who was going to receive it and do the xfer would be if they were anticipating the delivery (like my "kitchen table" FFL).

 

[TennJed]

When the rules changed, we lost most of the kitchen table dealers, as the rest had to prove a place of business and operating hours. At least that is the continued point by the BATF in issuing licenses.

Further, the few kitchen table dealers don't even advertise. I've yet to see "$25 internet FFL transfers, call 1-myareacodeandnumber." At least that could give the appearance of trying to be in business, which the BATF is attempting to force. Hence the requirement to collect and report sales tax, hold local licenses, etc.

I am going to disagree with you on the advertising, they advertise where they need to. With the online dealers. If I go to Buds, Impact guns, Davidson's, ect they all have list of FFL's that are on file with them. Put in your zip and it gives you a list. There are a lot of tabletop FFL's near me on file with the major online dealers.

Just like the actual business model of gun stores is changing, so is the advertising. Why should the tabletop FFL advertise in the phonebook or newspaper? They shouldn't. Needless cost with little return.

Adverstive with with the online dealers and have a web page. That is what you need to do, and that is what they ARE doing. It may be regional, but around here tabletop FFLs are growing. You seem to want to resist it, but they tend to provide things a traditional stand alone gun shop can't. Flexible hours

I work a 9-5 schedule. When gun stores are open, I am at work. Buds is open 24-7. My tabletop FFL lets me pick up online transfers at 7 or 8 at night. Even on sundays. He provides good customer service. So does Buds BTW.

I still stand on what I said - after weeks of waiting for delivery, more could have been done to nail down the details and prevent it. A third party arranged this deal with only one perfunctory conversation on the part of the OP. Is that the way you would do it?

Yes, I have ordered a lot of guns online. I send an email when I make the order to my FFL letting them know. They get back to me when it gets there, Doesn't matter if it takes 2 days or 2 months. Why would I call to check it periodically during the wait? That makes no sense on either parties part. That is just wasted time that the FFL could use in revenue generating actions. Should the customer call every day? Every 2 hours? "hello, just wanted to check to make sure you were still going to do the work we agreed on for the same price. Ok thanks, I will call back at 4 to check again"

Frankly, not every customer is worth all the hand holding and high maintenance they demand - and those of us who actually work retail can give you about 100 pages of our anecdotes justifying what the clerk may have been doing.

You say this but then want the OP to take up time and have his hand held throughout the transaction. It is contradictory. Why should the FFL have to take up extra time answering the same uneeded questions?

 

[HexHead]

I was responding to this....

Charging $50 for a transfer does nothing but alienate customers.

Their store is one of the busiest in town. And as to how I know? I know someone that works there.

 

[Ryanxia]

Personally, I think $50 is pretty steep. My guy charges the required $10, plus 5 or 10 for his time. It takes all of 2 minutes to punch the ffl info into the computer. Charging $50 for a transfer does nothing but alienate customers.

What's this required $10? Are you under the impression there is some law on this?

My LGS doesn't typically charge a transfer fee whether private sale or buying online. He also usually is right around the same price as anything I've found online so most of the time I just get it from him.

 

[HexHead]

What's this required $10? Are you under the impression there is some law on this?

Law? No, but in some states the FFL is billed $10 for each background check they run.

 

[Ryanxia]

Law? No, but in some states the FFL is billed $10 for each background check they run.

Gotcha. That's pretty ridiculous.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

I can certainly understand the frustration....you ask a question and proceed upon the given information and then they change the parameters of the transaction after you have committed to buy a gun and turn a "cool thing" into a "confrontation" after the fact. That sucks and I'm sorry it happened to you.

I buy used/collectible handguns online and ship them to my LGS/indoor range...it's $20 and they are happy to get it. I bought 5 guns from them last year and rented many others. I shoot there every 2 weeks and they get the range fees from that. I fully support them and have paid "list" to support them when I could have saved $50 - $200 by buying online and shipping it elsewhere. I/We have a relationship based on courtesy and support. We conduct business in a "Hometown" manner with a handshake and have a lot of fun doing it.

Sadly it doesn't seem to work that way many other places.....the Internet ain't gonna go away. So the LGS better learn to deal with it one way or another. Alienating clients is not the solution.

VooDoo

 

[zdc1775]

I don't know about your area but where I live there are about 50 FFL's within 45 miles of my house. They range from one the NRA recognized as being the top seller of Ruger's in the US to several "kitchen table" type guys. Some of them have extremely rude employees and some are extremely polite. So had this happened to me I would never set foot in their door again. And around here prices range from $0-$50 depending on the store. Personally I use one that is free (Athens Guns) but that has more to do with the fact that he has great customer service and can beat the big guy on most anything I have ever wanted. Just wished he was closer now that I have moved.

 

[dogtown tom]

Tirod When the rules changed, we lost most of the kitchen table dealers, as the rest had to prove a place of business and operating hours. At least that is the continued point by the BATF in issuing licenses.

A "licensed premises" and "business hours" has ALWAYS been a requirement for holding an FFL......and those requirements have ALWAYS been clearly stated on the application.

Further, the few kitchen table dealers don't even advertise. I've yet to see "$25 internet FFL transfers, call 1-myareacodeandnumber."

Look at my sig line below I don't have to advertise, word of mouth and referrals from customers keeps me busier than I want to be.

If you go on Gunbroker's "Find an FFL" you'll find thousands of kitchen table dealers........but they aren't listed any differently than any other licensee. To find out whether it's a "brick & mortar" or home based you'll have to Google the address.

At least that could give the appearance of trying to be in business, which the BATF is attempting to force. Hence the requirement to collect and report sales tax, hold local licenses, etc.

Well, they DO have to be "engaged in the business", but there is no requirement to be successful, buy advertising or hang a neon sign out front. If you cannot legally conduct business at your licensed premises you will not be issued an FFL.

Add those annual fees to holding the FFL, to, it's not a cheap hobby.

First, there are no "annual fees".....for the FFL it's $200 for the first three years and $90 for each subsequent three year renewal. I don't know of any state that charges for a sales tax permit, and business licenses aren't required in every city or state (Texas doesn't)

Second, it darn well better not be a hobby. The FFL application clearly states that a Federal Firearms License is NOT for enhancing your personal collection, but for engaging in the business of dealing in firearms.

 

[dogtown tom]

PabloJ ..... I wish they took gun shop out of Bud's it seems to be place like Amazon.com not a true gun shop at all.

You have to be kidding...............

 

[Zaydok Allen]

The guy treated you poorly, and the fact that you won't return or do business with them again is likely to hurt them in the long run.

I do understand their point about online sellers putting them out of business. I amost always buy something when I go into my LGS whether I need it or not, since they are great to work with and their prices are reasonable. A box of ammo, anything I kind of need, I try to buy there.

I've bought a bunch of guns from them too.

 

[Praxidike]

If they're going to have to charge more for the transfer fee they should be more upfront with that information. I would prefer to do business with a local dealer but if they're going to make it a hassle (and more expensive), to do so, then I would look for another dealer.

Exactly... It brings customers in the door who may later come back to buy a firearm, ammo, or other accessories. Plus, they're getting $20-$50 profit for only a little bit of their time. It takes more time and money to search, order, get delivered, log, store, price, display, sell, and do the paper work on the firearms that they do sale for only a $20-$50 profit each. I'm just not buying it, and I don't feel sorry for LGS. It's business and they need to adapt or sink with the ship. They should take county wide internet sales, and sell on gun broker. If they choose not to adapt to the changing times, whose fault is that?

 

[CoThG]

It has been a long while since I have posted on this forum. I usually just use it as a resource, but I have to relate my recent experience using the FFL of a local gun store.

So I let my buddy know I was going to order an AR from Bud's Gun Shop. I told him to let me know if he becomes aware of any places that have reasonably priced FFLs I can use to transfer the rifle to? Well he happened to be at a local gun store later that week and asked them what their price was. They told him 25$. He relayed that information to me and just to make sure (because that's a great deal) I called them and asked them the same question, they reaffirmed that it was 25$. So I order the rifle from Bud's and have it shipped there. A couple of weeks later they call me to let me to know my rifle is in. I head right over to pick it up. I get in there and the guy at the counter asks me how much they told me it was to use their FFL. I say 25$. He says "it's 50$ now" we changed it a couple of weeks ago." I tell him "you told me it was 25$ when I called". So he says "well... we could have got you this gun. It's 25$ if it's a gun we can't get you, but if we can order it for you it's 50$." So I say "you didn't tell me that." (Here's what really burned me up) He says "you didn't ask". What!!! So I hold my ground and finally he says since they told me 25$ he'll give it to me for that, but for future reference it's 50$ if they can get me the gun.

Then he starts talking about how it's not worth their time to go through all this trouble with an FFL for 25$ (Then don't charge 25$), and how online guns stores like Bud's are killing local gun stores. He keeps telling me to "Just give us a chance". So I tell him, I've bought a pistol and a rifle here and my friend bought me a PSE bow for my birthday from here. He ignores all that and continues with his sob story. Plus he kept lowering his voice to a whisper on and off because his manager was around the corner. I just wanted my freaking AR. Anyway, I got my rifle, but not without a dramatic increase in my blood pressure.

What are your thoughts?

My local FFL doesn't charge me a transfer fee at all.