Bad range advice from Wisconsin shooter

[BigFatKen]

My Ruger .41 mag, 1967 #6781 - #12272 1968 that I bought when I turned 21, stays in a box so lint, etc. stays out. Shortly after I bought it, I was shooting it with mag loads at the old, State approved, more or less, gravel pit range on hwy ZZ in Waukesha County and the front trigger guard screw came out and fell to the ground. So some guy at the range suggests I get some Loc-Tite to put on the screws. He did not say anything about not using red Loc-Tite. So I went to a hardwre store and the bought the only type of Loc-Tite they stocked. I think it will never come apart now. Good thing I keep it clean. I don't listen to most of what I hear at ranges since then. Amazing what a 21ish young guy will do after hearing it from an older and presumably wiser man.

Range advise would make a funny, but informative thread if the bad advice is followed by correct advice. A few years later another guy said I had a nice gun and good thing I did not get the .45 Colt as it was way less powerful than the mag. See also: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=247283 So when I saw a .45 with 4 5/8" barrel at Safari Sam's on Greenfield Ave in 1973, I passed the $79.95 piece.
I finally found an unaltered .45 Colt Blackhawk after 30 odd years of looking.
See also:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=184137

 

[Brad Johnson]

It is possible to get red loc-tite off. Unfortunately, most of the things that will cause it to loosen/soften will also cause the blueing to turn slightly.

However...

You can always try getting a good precision screwdriver and apply even pressure. If you can find a precision impact driver, even better. Normally a few taps on the impact driver will break loose the loc-tite, although it may also noticeably "ugly-fy" the screw head.

Brad

 

[Headless]

Which loctite # did you use? Most loctite can come off with a bit of excessive heat applied. Red and green can be serious stuff; i use the green to hold pinions on output shafts from electric motors...it'll hold through some insane torque on a smooth shaft. Red loctite in a screw is bad news (tm). Threadlock loctite is usually blue.

 

[busdriver72]

Maybe the guy was just trying to be helpful, and he didn't know he needed to tell you what kind of loctite. Maybe he didn't know what you didn't know.

 

[BigFatKen]

thank you for the idea

This was 1973 or so, I don't remember anything but the color. New screws can still be bought. I will buy some and put them away with the gun for the next generation, unless, of course, it wears out before I pass on. If I live to see it wear out at two boxes a year, call me the 800 year old man.

I had heard that the "simple" use of a 350 degree screwdriver would melt it. I'm not doing that.

Maybe the guy was just trying to be helpful, and he didn't know he needed to tell you what kind of loctite. Maybe he didn't know what you didn't know

True. Maybe he bought the only can his store stocked. Still, he gave me less than well informed advice.

 

[nplant]

It's true that heat will melt it off, and usually people say you need a brazing torch of some sort, BUT, have you tried using a soldering iron? Just heat up the screw head itself for a bit, and then use a precision screwdriver to get even contact all across the slot (I'm assuming a slotted screw head, though).

Could work, and might save your blueing. Disclaimer: I have no idea whether or not it will harm your gun. Sorry.

 

[proud2deviate]

The red stuff is pretty good if you don't plan on removing the screw any time soon. I use it on my bailsongs (love the smell of the stuff, kind of chlorine-ish, like a well kept swiming pool, only brighter. . .) Red is generally considered "permanant". The blue stuff is non-permanant, meaning a screw can be removed with a little coaxing; violet is even weaker.

As noted, heat will take it off. Most folks recommend a soldering iron for this. A strong solvent might work also. Something like methyl ethyl ketone, or maybe acetone. It'd have to soak for a while to get it down into the threads, though. I'm not sure how either of those might affect the finish.

 

[the naked prophet]

You don't have to use a soldering iron or anything that hot. Use a hair dryer set on the hottest setting. That guaranteed won't harm the gun or the finish. It'll take a few minutes for the heat to soak in, but give it time. Then use a strong screwdriver (and oven mitts) and it'll come off.

 

[jlbraun]

I use the red to keep my gas piston pinion in on my AK. Good luck getting that one unstuck.

 

[BigFatKen]

Good thing I keep it clean.

I should never have to break it down. Ruger does not recomend total breakdown for the average shooter. They say a little oil and wipe with an oily rag is all you need.
I just used this advice as an example. Others include:

"Use the 220 gr .30-06 bullets for deer as they have more power than the 150 gr ones. 150s are for varmints."
"I lean my shoulder against the truck bumper to steady myself when shooting this .300 mag"
"You shoot, and I'll just stand a few yards off to the side of the 100 yard target."
And my biggest (dumbest) winner is:
"Usually my rifle goes click, bang. This time it went click but no bang. I better check the barrel."

 

[44AMP]

Loctite

Because I can never seem to remember which one is which, I avoid the use of Loctite.

I do, however, recommend the use of a Loctite product, called "Guntite". It can be found lots of places, and is the right type (removable) for gun screws.

Don't use the industrial Loctite, as you might (and apparently have) get the "permanent" one. It can be broken, but it is a pain. Use Guntite, that way no mistakes can happen. Guntite comes in a small tube, with (last time I bought some) a green label. Avoid the stuff in the bottles, as there are several different grades ranging from the "removable" kind up to the "permanent". Unless you are familiar witrh their product line, it is easy to get the wrong one.

A cheap fix (if you can't get guntite) is to use nail polish or model paint. A small drop will keep screws in place (ususally), and will yield to a proper fitting screwdriver and some elbow grease. Just don't use alot. And, if you do, nail polish remover (acetone) will loosen thing up.

 

[OBXMIKE]

The OBVIOUS answer........take that pig out and shoot it 'till the barrel glows, then unscrew it. That way you get to have a little fun while you're working on that derned screw!

 

[Bergerboy]

I've never had a problem busting red Loctite........with my big IR impact wrench! Works great on rod end caps in my motors, can't imagine it on that little screw!

I second the opinion of trying a well-fitted impact screwdriver.

 

[Headless]

Colors are only basic tells of strength; green vs. red for example, some red's are stronger than some greens and vice versa. Some are high temperature resistant, too, and the temperature resistance doesn't follow by color either -- if you got really unlucky and used loctite 648 for example, you'd need to hit over 250f JUST TO SET THE GLUE!. It's rated at working temperatures of up to 175c! Loctite does not play around. 638 is low temp stuff, can be removed easily with heat...620 is super high heat and actually works at up to 230c (446f!!!) ...it actually CURES at 180c (350f!)! Just goes to show you, heat may not help, especially if you used cylindrical fitting stuff on a screw and it's designed for particularly high heat environments

 

[Nortonics]

From the Loctite web site:

Removal/Clean Up

Q: What solvents can I use to remove liquid Loctite materials?

A: Most organic solvents are effective in removing anaerobic and cyanoacrylate adhesives. Chlorinated solvents are most commonly used. Dry MEK and acetone are used on applications using instant adhesives.

Q: How can I remove a fastener that is "permanently" locked in?

A: The application of heat is needed to remove a fastener that can't be removed with a hand tool. Temperatures of 325F and above is needed to break down a standard anaerobic, 500F for high temperature Anaerobics. A heat gun or propane torch is commonly used to do this process, and careful disassembly should occur while parts are still hot. Once apart, and cooled, use methylene chloride (Chisel #79040) to remove cured excess material. Always wipe down the fasteners with clean up solvent to remove the wax film that Chisel leaves on the surface.

http://www.loctite.com/int_henkel/loctite_us/index.cfm?&pageid=214&layout=2

 

[Waywatcher]

Sorry, but the guy gave good advice. It's your responsibility to do a tiny bit of research and find out that there are multiple loc-tites with different uses.

I am sorry to hear about your gun though.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

That sucks! Ahhh the good ole red loctite. I learned about the different colors one day working in the shop (I think I was working on a motor). Dad told me to use loctite so I grabbed the tube of red. As I was about to put it on I hear a panicked "NOOO!" "use blue or green, you'll never get it off again with red".

 

[HSMITH]

Kroil will defeat red loc-tite, but it takes a while. Keep the head of the screw wet for a couple weeks and it will unscrew normally.

 

[benelli12]

I hate it when ppl at the range, gunshops, outdoor stores, etc. try to sound smart when they really dont know what they are talking about. I bought an sks from the guy at the gunshop, and he said it is extremely innaccurate and is definetly not a target gun, Well... it shot 2" groups at 100yds with wolf,:banghead: :banghead: , and I almost didn't buy it because of his false claims.:banghead:

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Maybe the guy was just trying to be helpful, and he didn't know he needed to tell you what kind of loctite. Maybe he didn't know what you didn't know.

More likely he didn't know there are multiple types of Loctite. Astonishingly enough, many people don't know this.

Personally, I keep blue and purple around but I don't let red in the house. If blue won't hold it, it must be so broken that Loctite isn't the answer.

Avoid the stuff in the bottles, as there are several different grades ranging from the "removable" kind up to the "permanent". Unless you are familiar witrh their product line, it is easy to get the wrong one.

?????

It's almost impossible to get the wrong one. That's why they each have a different number, plus they are color-coded. Purple is low-strength, for small screws. Blue is medium strength, for larger screws and a firmer hold but removeable without special tools or extraordinary effort. Red is high strength and requires both heat and high torque to remove.

Green is high strength and penetrating -- you put it on after the bolt or screw is in place and it wicks into the threads. Also requires heat and high torque for removal.

 

[razorburn]

Yeah, that's just a fact of life. A lot of people say things they think are correct and aren't, you need to check and look into things for yourself. Didn't it say anything on the packaging that the red loctite was basically permanent?

 

[Zoogster]

I imagine certain solvents will remove it (though many will likely alter the finish of the gun as well) and since you do not have a plastic gun should not hurt the firearm. Some research into what solvents would have the least effect on the finish, and metal, yet effectively disolve the type of compound created would be a good start if you don't want to use the heat and high torque method. I am not sure what chemical reaction is used for red lock tite though, and knowing what your disolving prior to finding a solvent to disolve it is a good thing. Some research should give you all the information you need. Learn what the final chemical is, and find solvent that disolve that class of chemicals but does alter or harm the type of metals your gun is made from.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Just stick a couple fired .38 caliber cartridge cases in your ears: they'll stop the noise.

Sounds ridiculous? I've seen it done.

 

[Battlespace]

Many years ago a co-worker decided to mount a scope on a M-70. He used super glue on the screws and then found he used screws that were too long and bottomed out before the mount was tight. I guess the glue took up some room and with screws that were a tad long . . . . . . . . . .

He ended up having the screws drilled out and the new holes re-tapped a little over size.

 

[Snarlingiron]

Hey here's a crazy idea. Why not get the information from the FAQ on Loctites website?:

Q: How can I remove a fastener that is "permanently" locked in?

A: The application of heat is needed to remove a fastener that can't be removed with a hand tool. Temperatures of 325F and above is needed to break down a standard anaerobic, 500F for high temperature Anaerobics. A heat gun or propane torch is commonly used to do this process, and careful disassembly should occur while parts are still hot. Once apart, and cooled, use methylene chloride (Chisel #79040) to remove cured excess material. Always wipe down the fasteners with clean up solvent to remove the wax film that Chisel leaves on the surface.

This product is extremely well documented, and backed by a very good company. The ways to use the various types, and the ways to remove them are available to all from the manufacturer.