Balance beam vs Electronic Scale

[chiltech500]

Hi,

I have a balance beam scale used for like 20-30k loads by now.

Wondering about using a cheaper electronic scale instead. I see accuracy+/- 0.1mg is that pretty normal or what should I expect?

Thanks

 

[CaptHank]

Make sure you have the option to change the readings to "Grains".

 

[Blue68f100]

^^^^^^^^^ Yes you want grains not grams.

There is a thread covering the digital scales. I use a GemPro 250 and will not got back to std scales. Once you get use to a good digital it's hard to beat.

 

[mgmorden]

I have both - a cheap electronic scale and 2 beam scales (Lee and Redding).

I tend to use the electronic scale a lot more for the sake of convenience. Truthfully it's pretty much all I use for pistol loads, and I'll use the beam scale some for rifle.

What I'll often do though, is for pistol I'm just using the scale to set my powder measure. The accuracy of the scale is a lot less critical if you're doing the average of a series. If I'm going for say, 4.5 grns, rather than checking a single charge, I'll drop ten charges into the pan and then weigh that. If it's 45.0 +/- 0.5 grns, then the AVERAGE per charge is 4.5 grns and I'm good.

 

[Rule3]

Every time this topic comes up, I post the same thing. Unless it is a very high quality electronic you can keep it. Balance beams have been used for a gazillion years. They carry a lifetime warranty (if ever needed) and are pretty much fool proof.

Electronics are subject to drafts electronic interference and are a computer and WILL break at some time. Plus they use batteries.

Sure they are fine to quick check a bullet weight or something but for tiny amounts of powder no thanks.

 

[cfullgraf]

Plus they use batteries.

I do not buy an electronic scale that does not plug into the wall. No problems with batteries.

Of course, I can't say much about TVA.

Beam scales can take a header off the bench as easily as electronic ones can.

Drafts can affect beam scales as well as electronic ones.

I will admit that beam scales are not easily damaged by lightning or other electrical upsets.

I've never had electronic interference with any of my scales, but I do not allow the scales to sit near any potential interference. I believe scales currently manufactured are less susceptible to interference than the predecessors.

I prefer an electronic scale. No adjusting the sliding poise to find out what the weight is.

You do have to hit the Tare button frequently to zero the scale. (zero as opposed to calibrate).

I currently use a GemPro 250 because I like the 1/100ths read out.

 

[Reloadron]

This is the thread where we beat up scales. That thread should answer most scale related questions.

On average any scale that delivers a resolution of 0.1 grain and an uncertainty of +/- 0.1 grain is fine for most hand loading use. As you move into the digital jewelry scales they do offer improved resolution as well as accuracy but you really need to ask yourself how accurate of a scale do you really need?

I have and use both digital and a balance beam. I was using balance beam scales for my hand loading long before digital scales ever became popular. Both types work fine. Use whatever you are comfortable with. You have a balance beam and it serves you well, personally I see no reason for you to change but it's up to you.

Ron

 

[spitballer]

+/- 0.1mg is exceptional for an electronic scale - be sure this is not +/- 10mg! My e-scale weighs to 10 mg but this can be whittled down to 5 mg with a 5 mg check weight. 5 mg is somewhat less than a tenth of a grain.

 

[Rule3]

I do not buy an electronic scale that does not plug into the wall. No problems with batteries.

Of course, I can't say much about TVA.

Beam scales can take a header off the bench as easily as electronic ones can.

Drafts can affect beam scales as well as electronic ones.

I will admit that beam scales are not easily damaged by lightning or other electrical upsets.

I've never had electronic interference with any of my scales, but I do not allow the scales to sit near any potential interference. I believe scales currently manufactured are less susceptible to interference than the predecessors.

I prefer an electronic scale. No adjusting the sliding poise to find out what the weight is.

You do have to hit the Tare button frequently to zero the scale. (zero as opposed to calibrate).

I currently use a GemPro 250 because I like the 1/100ths read out.

The Gem Pro is a good scale, but just wait until the first EMP goes off, then we will see who laughs last,

An electronic scale is a computer , IT WILL DIE>

 

[Bart B.]

There's a greater spread in primer output for a given lot of them than a 1/10th grain (.1) of powder causes. And that's ten times the spread of 1/100th grain (.01) grain of powder. Some powders have 3 to 6 granules per 1/10th grain of weight, so how does one measure to the nearest .01 grain if that covers 3 granules: cut one in thirds or fourths?

To say nothing of the variables humans have that influence the accuracy of a given load that's 10 times bigger than what those powder charge variables cause. For example, several people shooting the same rifle and ammo will have a muzzle velocity average somewhere in a 100 fps range. If they're hand holding the rifle against their shoulder, the muzzle velocity will be slower and the spread will be 3 to 4 times that the barreled action will have clamped solid in a vice so it doesn't move at all. Newton's laws prevail.

Sierra Bullets throws charges direct from measures that have a spread of 2/10ths grain or more. Their best match bullets shoot 1/4 MOA 10-shot groups in their 200 yard range. They don't work up new loads for different lots of components nor for a new test barrel; the recipie that worked well with the old stuff does as well as the new stuff.

It doesn't matter if a beam scale is 2/10ths grain off exact. As long as it's repeatable to 1/10th grain, that's good enough. There's typically a grain or two difference across powder lots to produce the same exact pressure with a given load in a given barrel anyway.

Having bullet diameters at least .0003" larger in diameter than the barrel's groove diameter is 10 times more important thatn exact charge weights.

But it's easy to see errors in charge weight. Much more so than the other elements of accuracy that are not considered that have a much greater impact. How many of you who've watched a benchrest match notice the people shooting do not hold onto their rifles? They're fired in free recoil untouched by humans except for a finger on their 2-ounce trigger. Rifles shoot much more accurate when they're not held by a human against their shoulder; rested on bags or not.

 

[jmorris]

How about a hybrid using an electrical fed beam? Played with one I put together last week and it would drop +\- a single kernel of powder (less than .1 grain)..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA0_KDjbBGQ

 

[salpal48]

. I only use beam scales . never owned a digital Or want One. . When You decide to Give your experience to a Cheap machine for the sake of speed. you will never Know if Your right or wrong.
Handloading is a Craft, Only learned not acquired. Most Younger loaders will rely on the Digitals and progressives . but will never learn .
You will be better off staying with the beam.

 

[Reloadron]

How about a hybrid using an electrical fed beam? Played with one I put together last week and it would drop +\- a single kernel of powder (less than .1 grain)..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA0_KDjbBGQ

That was pretty cool. Not to mention how well it would resolve a single kernel of powder.

Ron

 

[Reeferman]

Why not use both? If a emp ever does happen then you have a beam. I think however if it does happen there will be much more to worry about.

 

[ajandrs]

I will never use an electronic scale again until (maybe) I can afford one of the really nice metering scales. When I first started reloading a couple years ago I started with 9mm using a $20 frankford arsenal electronic scale and I'm lucky I didn't blow up my guns due to that POS. Long story short, using that scale I got VERY inconsistent velocities that made no sense with the charge I was using. Luckily I never went close to the "max" charge because if I had it may not have ended well.

When I recently added .223 to my bench I also bought an RCBS 505 beam scale because I knew the frankford wasn't accurate enough for what I wanted to do with my rifle ... I just didn't know HOW inaccurate it was. After getting and setting up the 505 my mind was blown by how off the Frankford unit was. Not only was it off quite a bit from the 505, it gave hugely inconsistent readings. For example, I would weight, say 24gr on the 505 then dump it on the Frankford and might get 23.3. Then I'd dump it out of the Frankford, tare it out, and dump it right back on and maybe get 23.7 ... over and over again I would do this and never once got consistent back to back readings. Granted, Frankford is kind of a "budget brand" to begin with but still, that experience was enough for me to swear against them for now on.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I retired my RCBS balance beam nearly 20 years ago. I bought a Pact BBK. It does take a battery. I have had zero problems out of it.

My buddy bought a used RCBS balance beam last year. It appeared to zero. He did not check it with a set of weights. He blew the grips off a RI 1911 9mm twice before he decided to pull his loads and check them. According to what he told me, it was throwing about 2 grains too much.

 

[cfullgraf]

The Gem Pro is a good scale, but just wait until the first EMP goes off, then we will see who laughs last,

An electronic scale is a computer , IT WILL DIE>

Which is why I still have a beam scale carefully stored away.

 

[jmorris]

The Gem Pro is a good scale, but just wait until the first EMP goes off, then we will see who laughs last,

It will probably be the guy that has a bunch of different progressives setup for each different caliber so he doesn't have to change anything to crank out ammo.

Guess it doesn't matter much because he won't be able to get on the Internet to brag about it anyway...

 

[Reeferman]

I have several beam and electronic scales and no matter which one I use I have a set of calibrated weights to check to make sure they are weighing properly. I couldn't imagine weighing loads without checking with them before and during reloading.

 

[sugarmaker]

Electronic and balance scales require their own technique. My 505 hasn't been used much since I got the 750. The 750 has some zero drift but I always hit the zero button before weighing so it doesnt affect my process. I check zero on the balance on each weigh also so the 750 is still faster for me. Setting up a powder measure is much faster on the 750 as you can re-zero without dumping the pan, i usually run 10 dumps into the pan to see if the measure is behaving, then dump the pan once instead of 10 times, saves alot of time.

I also use a check weight at the start of each session, balance or electronic. The 750 has been super stable in this regard, i dont recall it ever needing re-cal but i do it anyhow once in a while just because.

 

[Rule3]

It will probably be the guy that has a bunch of different progressives setup for each different caliber so he doesn't have to change anything to crank out ammo.

Guess it doesn't matter much because he won't be able to get on the Internet to brag about it anyway...

Excellent point! LOL

 

[spitballer]

long as it's repeatable to 1/10th grain, that's good enough...Having bullet diameters at least .0003" larger in diameter than the barrel's groove diameter is 10 times more important thatn exact charge weights...Rifles shoot much more accurate when they're not held...

Bart B this more of your good, practical, useful advice and this is why it's so hard to understand why a man with such good common horse sense and practical experience starts to lose it when a simple albeit advanced loading technique like duplexing comes up. It has proven so successful for me that I find it hard to believe top shooters aren't making use of this technique.

Nevertheless I never seem to tire of your posts, and FWIW I would add that the competition triggers you're talking about are extremely sensitive and worthy of respect.

 

[joem1945]

I have both and they are Dillons. I use the beam scale because it's faster, doesn't need warm up time or calibration weights. If I load and test at the range I will take the battery operated electronic scale.

 

[chiltech500]

Thanks for all the replies. They are very helpful.

Yes I could use search but then then
newer members input would be missing... and I would deprive someone of their opportunity to gripe LOL

BartB your in depth information about inherent error ranges in so many other factors is very enlightening.

I've read Gempro, anyone have a Dillon sold electronic? Thanks

 

[mgmorden]

Yes I could use search but then then
newer members input would be missing... and I would deprive someone of their opportunity to gripe LOL

Well, that and since the thread already exists - 2 or 3 years from now someone may well search for the topic here or on Google and when they get here "use search" isn't a very useful response.

I've literally had cases were I was Googling an a topic and the first 3 or so pages I found was all people telling the person asking the question to "just Google it".