Baldwin Charged Again With Manslaughter

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I collect prop guns, some of which were found at the filming site.
The ones that might actually get pointed at someone were totally incapable of firing anything.
Most had no moving parts.
Others had electronic noise makers that could be used to cue special effects.
If Baldwin hired a prop master that allowed a loaded, functional revolver on a live set then he should be found culpable for anything that resulted from that error of judgement, regardless of who pulled the trigger and who was killed or injured.
 
I look at it like this . I take my car to the automotive shop to have the tires rotated . The mechanic leaves the lug nuts loose . The wheel comes loose when I leave the shop and I crash my car into another car and kill the person in that car . Is it my fault , or the mechanics fault ? Yes , I would expect to be charged , but in the end found not guilty .
 
This tells me a lot about who they put their faith in..

DB6A94B1-CA03-4714-8B7A-14DC3C485252.jpeg

 
He’ll walk…no doubt about it.
A year ago the DA dismissed the charges because there wasn’t physical proof that he actually touched the trigger.
But this year they decided to reopened the case based on new evidence. The basis of that evidence is from a forensic armorer who examined and tested the revolver and determined that it had a 2 lb trigger which could only be activated through a forced applied to it.
The problem with this, is that this armorer replaced certain internal parts in order to reach his conclusion.
Why did the forensic armorer replace parts?
Because after the initial accident, the gun was sent to the FBI who did their own examinations and tests. In the process, some of the gun’s parts were damaged.
So basically, the most valuable piece of evidence (the gun) has been tampered with twice since the shooting.
This case will be a slam dunk for the defense.
 
He’ll walk…no doubt about it.
A year ago the DA dismissed the charges because there wasn’t physical proof that he actually touched the trigger.
But this year they decided to reopened the case based on new evidence. The basis of that evidence is from a forensic armorer who examined and tested the revolver and determined that it had a 2 lb trigger which could only be activated through a forced applied to it.
The problem with this, is that this armorer replaced certain internal parts in order to reach his conclusion.
Why did the forensic armorer replace parts?
Because after the initial accident, the gun was sent to the FBI who did their own examinations and tests. In the process, some of the gun’s parts were damaged.
So basically, the most valuable piece of evidence (the gun) has been tampered with twice since the shooting.
This case will be a slam dunk for the defense.
And a complete waste of taxpayers money .
 
Most of us tend to think of the basic rules of gun safety anytime we see a firearm. A lot of people just don't. That is why the professionals are supposed to be there to protect people from stupid gun handling.

I think whoever handed him a gun and somehow it got loaded with live ammo has at least some civil liability.
 
I don't think Baldwin pulling the trigger on a revolver handed to him is the crime.
Do you understand the statute under which Baldwin has been charged?
The crime didn't happen when the trigger was pulled, the crime happened when a friends child was hired for a key supervisory role that they were utterly unqualified for resulting in the death of a member of the crew.
Is that kind of thing even rermotely addresssed in New Mexico criminal statutes?
All the checks are supposed to have taken pkace BEFORE the armorer hands the actor the weapon. The armorer's job is to make sure the firearm is safe and ready. I'm not sure how an acter who is practicing a scene who is handed a firearm that he didn't load, was informed was safe, he didn't bring the wrong ammunition, and he otherwise didn't do anything wrong other than allegedly pull the trigger during the scene would be guilty of a crime. Either something is missing or it's a simple witch hunt. It makes more sense for the armorer to be charged, as it was his responsibility, then it makes sense for the actor to be charged.
Thiink about it! Were a mature adult to pick up a firarem, assume that it is not loaded, possibly be told that it is not loaded. point it at another person , would said adult be culpable if the gun discharged, whether or not the trigger had been touched?

The answer is, of course, yes, not only in New Mexico but in all other juridicions, most of which prescibe much more severe penalties.
I will reiterate again that it's ridiculous to apply typically gun safety rules that civilians and L.E. practice to shooting a movie.
You are obviuosly not familiar iith the official rules pertaining to the handling of firarms on movie sets.
Every movie old and new that has had a gun fight, military, or law enforcement scene in it has had firearms pointed at actors. Applying the same gun laws and safety practices, e.g., never point a gun at anyone, while shooting Hollywood movies or TV shows is ridiculous and not realistic IMHO.
The movie producers have certainly had you fooled, and what you have thought you have seen is just what they have wanted you to think. They do their jobs very well indeed.
 
I don't think Baldwin pulling the trigger on a revolver handed to him is the crime. I think Baldwin, as the films producer, hiring a utterly unqualified firearm handler to save money on his cut rate movie is criminal negligence. If Baldwin hired some utterly incompetent friends child as director of lighting to save money on the lighting and a light tower fell down and killed an employee Baldwin would be held responsible for negligently cutting corners resulting in the death of an employee.

The crime didn't happen when the trigger was pulled, the crime happened when a friends child was hired for a key supervisory role that they were utterly unqualified for resulting in the death of a member of the crew.

If Baldwin is convicted of a felony will he no longer be able to be in possession of a firearm ever again? That would have a lot of well suited ironic justice to it!
THIS!!
When this happened I at first felt bad for him. He is handed a prop and told its cold. Then when I found out later just how utterly incompetent the person was he hired to do the props? That she had been using the damn thing with live ammo? Then I felt he was guilty of negligence. Not because he pulled the trigger, we all know he did but, because to save a few bucks he put the life of the crew in the hands of a complete idiot.
 
If the news services were correct the gun was sent to the FBI for examination right after this happened. They determined that it could not be made to fire without pulling the trigger. They finally got it to fire by breaking it. Evidently that was the reason for replacing the parts for the second test.

Wow! 1 1/2 years is the sentence for manslaughter. I knew NM has become very lenient on crime but didn't realise we cared so little for a human life. We only want to disarm the law abiding now and let the criminals keep on doing what they do.

Mark my words. Baldwin will either walk or only be found guilty of the lessor charge and my money is on him walking away. I have lived in this state a long time and have little faith in law enforcement. Incompetent most of the time and sentences are short if you do get convicted. Credit for good time makes them even shorter.
 
Indictment means little as only one prosecution's side of the story is told with no defense presented.

I admit I haven't been following this case very closely but my initial position still stands absent information otherwise.

On the set of a movie where real firearms are being used, and the firearm is being handed to the actor by a safety person, I hold that person and not the actor responsible for the status of the gun.

If the actor himself loaded the gun or if the set protocols require the actor himself to check the gun and those rules weren't followed, or the actor somehow had reason to believe the gun may be loaded with live ammunition then I would hold the actor culpable.

I know little of the actual facts of the case so I'll stay on the sidelines and let it play out in court.
 
The armorer, who was also the asst. prop master, her lawyers say it’s not her fault because she personally inspected every round from a box of “dummy” rounds and then spun the “chamber“ which held six rounds, before handing it to the asst. producer. Spun the chamber? Hmm, you might want an attorney who knows a little more about guns. And she, as an expert armorer, can’t tell a dummy round from a live round?

Her lawyers also say the gun sat out unsupervised for two hours, and that everyone had access to the prop truck, so it’s not her fault.

To me, those statements sound more inculpatory than exculpatory. We won’t get into the allegations that she was hung over and got rid of cocaine to someone just before the police arrived. She was also arrested after the incident for bringing a gun into a bar, a felony there.

If no one else, sounds like she’s definitely going down. Her trial is supposed to start in Feb.
 
I think gun owners and Republicans want him found guilty because of his political affiliation and antigun stance(even though they won't admit it). I don't believe he did anything criminally wrong, and this is just a witch hunt for some prosecutors and politicians to put an extra notch under their belt and on their resume.

It's sad that we live in a time that one's fame, political beliefs, and/or unlikable personality plays a role in whether they're the target of an investigation or found guilty of a crime.
Bro didn't have to point a gun and pull the trigger. He did, he gets to deal with the consequences of it.
 
It's sad that we live in a time that one's fame, political beliefs, and/or unlikable personality plays a role in whether they're the target of an investigation or found guilty of a crime.
It is indeed.

But what would make you think that that has been the case here?

Did Baldwin commit the act that led to his being charged, or did he not?

If you eere to point a gun at someone and kill them, would your having believed that the gun had not been loaded protect you from criminal charges, trial, conviction, and /orpenalty?

The anser to that is NO.
 
If no one else, sounds like she’s definitely going down.
As she should. She is a little fish so she's done. Baldwin isn't and might make another movie here if treated kindly so he will likely skate. Gotta keep all that movie and TV money rolling in although we rebate almost all of it back. Fat Bill Richardson is responsible for the rebate thing as he thought he was going to be appointed to a position he wanted badly. Instead he was completely snubbed proving once again politicians aren't the only double dealers around.
 
Sorry, Someone...anyone hands me a firearm and says "it's not loaded" it gets checked!!

Drop the mag...clear the cylinder, if there are rounds in the cylinder do not accept until the firearm is clear.
Listened to a podcast on this topic awhile back where some armorers/propmasters were being interviewed. If you start messing around with props on the set, you will likely be told to stop. The responsible persons (propmaster/armorer) on set are supposed to set things up the way they need to be set up for the scene and do not want the actors messing around with them and possibly causing a retake if they change the setup and ruin the scene. The responsible persons do the setup, hand the prop to the actor with instructions or relevant information and the actors do the scene.
If you eere to point a gun at someone and kill them, would your having believed that the gun had not been loaded protect you from criminal charges, trial, conviction, and /orpenalty?
It depends on the circumstances. In most cases, that would be negligent homicide.

BUT, if I had no significant working knowledge of firearms and a paid professional who is purported to be an expert in such matters and who was hired to prevent accidents/incidents with the firearm props on set of a movie where I was an actor, handed me a firearm prop on set, told me it was not live and that it was ready for the scene, and the scene required that I point the gun at another actor and manipulate the firearm by cocking it and pulling the trigger, then no, I absolutely would not expect there to be criminal charges filed against me for carrying out those instructions. The professional who botched the prop setup, on the other hand, would be in for real trouble.
 
I have mixed feelings on this. I think if this production operated under the normal safety rules (most importantly - that there should NEVER be any LIVE ammunition on a set.) and someone hands an actor a gun and says its a cold gun, that the responsibility falls on the armorer. But this production was reported as being a train wreck with multiple safety violations, and production members quitting over various safety issues. Baldwin, as producer, hired the armorer girl they were using because the previous one either quit - or refused to take the job because of how the production was being run. Baldwin hired a girl without the proper experience because 1: He couldn't get anyone else, and 2: He could control her and do what he wanted. This puts the tragedy on Baldwin's shoulders. I expect he gets convicted, but they reduce charges where he doesn't serve time, and he's hit with a civil penalty. That penalty will probably be covered by the production company's insurance.
 
Hmmm...

Lots of misunderstandings/misconceptions here. So, of course, I'll throw my two cents in. Keeping in mind, of course, that I ain't not no bambalance chaser.


There are firearms safety procedures for movie sets. And NO, they're NOT "the four rules" we talk about here. Why would they not be? For the simple fact that IT'S A MOVIE SET AND MOVIES OFTEN FILM SCENES WHICH ARE BLATANT VIOLATIONS OF THE FOUR RULES.

WE have "four rules". THEY have a whole list of safety rules and procedures because they WILL be firing guns in all kinds of ways which will violate those four rules of ours. It's important enough for them that they're SUPPOSED to have a property master or armorer who ensures all these rules are followed and enforced.

Interestingly, one of those safety rules of theirs is "Never point a firearm at anyone including yourself. Always cheat the shot by aiming to the right or left of the target character. If asked to point and shoot directly at a living target, consult with the property master or armorer for the prescribed safety procedures."

And, of course, "Live ammunition may not be brought into the theatre".

We know the potential consequences if we violate the "four rules". Well, everybody on a movie set is ALSO supposed to know the potential consequences if ANYBODY on the set violates any of THEIR rules. Even if live ammunition is never in the picture at all, prop ammunition can STILL cause serious injury or even death. Jon-Erik Hexum famously killed himself via a blank gunshot to the head on the set of Cover Up in 1984. He had loaded blank cartridges into his .44 magnum revolver and LITERALLY started goofing around with the gun between takes by removing 5, spinning the cylinder, and placing the revolver against his temple and then pulled the trigger, ala Russian Roulette.

Turned out the .44 magnum blank was powerful enough to blow a chunk of his skull into his brain.


Now...who is to blame for the Rust incident?

The answer to this is "EVERYBODY WHO HAD A ROLE IN ENSURING THE SAFETY PROCEDURES WERE IN PLACE AND FOLLOWED."

This isn't a "one person shoulders all the blame" thing. The armorer had a role. Alec Baldwin had a role. Halyna Hutchins had a role. The people who brought live ammo onto the set had a role. The people who apparently used live ammo in the gun to go out and have shooting fun with the prop gun had a role. The people who knew about ANY of these things had a role.

Who gets held responsible? Good question, especially given the fact that there are a great many people who played a role in this. There isn't a simple, easy answer to this and quite honestly, there will likely be a whole host of people who will never be charged with anything, much less convicted, for their personal roles in the matter. How many of the people who knew someone was actually bringing and firing live rounds from the prop gun do you think will be charged with anything?

The government will focus on the big picture: Who committed the homicide and who should be held responsible for it? Obviously, Alec and Hannah are front and center in this. But, as you can see by my comments above, there are a whole lotta people who were responsible for a whole lotta violations leading up to this tragic event.

Undoubtedly, there will be civil law suits involved in this as well, which again will very likely focus on the two main characters: Alec and Hannah.

A homicide was committed. Homicide being the killing of one person by another. There are many forms homicide can take, both criminal and non-criminal. A non-criminal homicide example would be the killing of another as the result of deadly force used in self-defense which is covered by the statues dealing with the use of deadly force. In such an example, this would be "justifiable homicide". Murder is one form of criminal homicide. So is manslaughter, unintentional homicide, and various shades of each under the jurisdictional laws.

Alec Baldwin apparently meets the wickets to be charged with involuntary manslaughter. Manslaughter IS NOT MURDER. It is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice, consisting of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting go felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.


If the safety rules in place defined a personal responsibility to Alec Balwin as the person handling a firearm prop on set, then he meets a very important wicket to be charged with this: "...without due caution and circumspection".


Example (hypothetical postulating here, as I don't actually know all the rules which were in place on the set):

- The armorer must personally obtain, inspect, and load any prop gun prior to its use on set.

- The actor must receive a safety brief from the armorer prior to handling a firearm prop.

- The actor must inspect the firearm prop immediately upon receipt, verify it's properly loaded with prop ammunition, and must not allow the firearm prop to leave his possession at any time before returning it to the armorer.


OK...let's say that the above are three hypothetical movie set rules out of however many.

- If the armorer (Hannah) did not personally obtain, inspect, and load the prop gun prior to use on set, or if she failed to properly do so, then she is in violation of that rule. (For example, if someone else loaded the firearm and she didn't personally verify it. If she loaded the firearm prop with the wrong ammunition. If she loaded it, but then left it unattended for a period of time, and then did not personally verify it again.)

- If the actor (Alec) did not receive a safety brief from Hannah prior to handling/taking possession of the firearm prop, then they are BOTH in violation of this rule and BOTH share culpability. (Both, because they both know there are rules that must be followed on set to use firearms. If Hannah did not give the brief, Alec should have asked for it.)

- If Alec did not inspect the firearm prop immediately upon receipt to verify it was properly loaded with prop ammunition and/or did not have the firearm prop in his possession at all times, then Alec is in violation of this rule. (One could say that Hannah has some responsibility here to verify Alec did this, but then she could have observed Alec perform an inspection and Alec was careless in paying attention while he did so.)


If these hypothetical rules were in place, then Alec most definitely meets the wickets to be charged with involuntary manslaughter.

Hannah, however, does not. This is because she was not the one who actually committed the physical act which fired the gun.

This does not mean she is not liable or culpable at all, because it's HER responsibility as armorer to ensure ALL the firearms rules and procedures are in place and followed at all times. She would be charged separately.


NOW...about the politics in this:

Yes, there are those who are politically motivated in this, on both sides. But the fact is that Alec (and Hannah) should be charged and tried in accordance with the laws, regardless.

That means if Alec goes to court and is convicted of involuntary manslaughter, this would be a fourth degree felony with a maximum punishment of 18 months in prison and up to $5,000 in fines.

If he gets sentenced in accordance with the NM sentencing guidelines, then he "didn't get off". Yeah, he'll probably have paid FAR more in putting up a legal defense than any possible fine. He'll probably pay FAR more than any prison time he may or may not get, even if he gets the maximum. An actor who killed someone on set, then goes about trying to blame everybody EXCEPT himself for it is gonna burn him in the industry FAR more than the courts will.

And yes, we all know there can be all kinds of scenarios which might happen, from nothing to maximum. I'm not going to entertain this, because we all know that untold thousands of "every day people" get all kinds of plea deals every day of the year which amount to a range of nothing to maximum. Criminals get firearms charges dropped. Sentences and fines get reduced. Alternative punishments offered in place of jail time. Dismissal of all charges. Treatment programs in place of fines/jail time. You name it, it happens all the time.
 
It is indeed.

But what would make you think that that has been the case here?

Did Baldwin commit the act that led to his being charged, or did he not?

If you eere to point a gun at someone and kill them, would your having believed that the gun had not been loaded protect you from criminal charges, trial, conviction, and /orpenalty?

The anser to that is NO.
Exactly, culpable ignorance is not an excuse under the color of the law.
 
As a retired Chief who as a Reactor Operator on a number of our submarines, I've been to my share of critiques and had my share of incident reports.

If there's one thing I've learned about ANY GIVEN INCIDENT, it's that it's exceptionally rare that it just "happened out of the blue" without a whole host of issues leading up to it which could have prevented it.

A properly held critique will point this out Every. Single. Time.

In fact, it's so rarely the case that things actually happen completely out of the blue that I'd bet money any critique/investigation which finds this to be the case was NOT properly performed.

I like to use what I call the combination theory. Pandora's Box has a combination lock on it. That lock will ONLY open and allow a particular bad event to happen at a particular time when a specific combination of events are dialed in.

If any single one of those events didn't happen, or happened differently, then Pandora's Box would not have opened.

I already mentioned a number of things in my previous post. If any one of those things had not happened, Alec would not have shot Halyna on October 21, 2021. If nobody had brought live ammo to the set. If Alec had verified the firearm prop he was rehearsing with was not loaded. If Alec had not pointed the gun at Halyna outside of the actual scene shoot. If Hannah had enforced a proper safety atmosphere on the set at all times. You name it, and that combination which allowed Pandora's Box to open would never have been dialed in for this incident.
 
" The actor must inspect the firearm prop immediately upon receipt, verify it's properly loaded with prop ammunition, and must not allow the firearm prop to leave his possession at any time before returning it to the armorer."
^^^^^
THAT. The last person handling the weapon is responsible for what happens NEXT with it pure and simple. If a friend hands me his gun to admire the FIRST thing I do is open it to check the action. Baldwin should not have taken her word for it and should have personally verified that it was loaded with blanks. The Prosecutor should pin him down and ask him if HE was the one being shot AT in the movie scene being filmed would he allow this inexperienced person to prep the weapon before the scene?
 
BUT, if I had no significant working knowledge of firearms
The screen Actors' Guild safety rule pertaining to firearms specify that anyone handling a firearm on a set be familiar with its operation.

In 2020, Baldwin unwisely claimed that he was an expert.
...if I had no significant working knowledge of firearms and a paid professional who is purported to be an expert in such matters and who was hired to prevent accidents/incidents with the firearm props on set of a movie where I was an actor, handed me a firearm prop on set, told me it was not live and that it was ready for the scene...
The SAG material clearly states that the actor is ultimately responsible.
and the scene required that I point the gun at another actor and manipulate the firearm by cocking it and pulling the trigger,...
Just pointing it is a no-no, according to SAG.

A couple of years ago, Attorneys Andrew Branca and Mike Gosneyy analyzed the case and concluded that, based on on whwt was known at the time, Baldwin was guilty of the crime charged.

That was posted on Youtube again thei morning, and Youtube deleted it on the basis that it "violated their standards".
 
If it hadn't been Baldwin, would anyone beyond the immediate families of the people still care?
He still should have verified the firearm placed into his hand, that is HIS responsibility!!
Is it the expectation that he should know the difference between dummy rounds and live?
What about all those times when hundreds of extras are used to replicate large scale battles? All of them expected to be firearm savvy?

I take issue with the part where a decision was made to allow functioning firearms on set with non-functioning brains. Everyone involved in that decision making process should be held accountable.
 
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