Baldwin Charged Again With Manslaughter
- Thread starter Speedo66
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Howland937
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That's what our emotions tell us, but doesn't mean a jury will find it to be a criminal offense. Especially if it's truly a jury of his peers. Not that it'll ever make it to trial anyway.
Those are the facts, period.
1. SAG does not make law, it does not have the power to prosecute people who violate its policy.
2. SAG is actually defending Baldwin's actions and saying that the charges against him are unwarranted.
SAG-AFTRA Defends Alec Baldwin, Says ‘Rust’ Shooting Charges Against Him Are “Wrong & Uninformed”
SAG-AFTRA y came to the defense of Alec Baldwin, who is facing involuntary manslaughter charges in theaccidental shooting death of Halyna Hutchins.
deadline.com
Facts are important, but they are not the end-all be-all. Context is absolutely critical.
Or, if you prefer, context is part of the whole that makes up the full set of facts and ignoring it can't provide a proper view of the situation.
bdickens
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Bovine excrement.That's what the facts tell us.
Nevermind that it is blindingly obvious to anyone with three functioning brain cells to rub together that guns can kill people. And that pointing them at people and pulling the trigger is how that happens.
It just boggles the mind how far some of you people bend over backwards to justify what is clearly negligence.
Furthermore, some of y'all obviously haven't been paying attention. It has been pointed out here and elsewhere - by people who have worked in the industry - that industry standard practices for safe firearms handling go far beyond the four rules, that functioning firearms are never supposed to be actually pointed at another person and that those industry standards were grossly violated on multiple occasions by multiple people.
Many of the union crew walked out over - get this - unsafe working conditions.
Finally, Baldwin was the producer. He was in charge of the whole operation. His was therefore the ultimate responsibility.
The way I understand it, based on hollywood protocols for actors - he is not culpable. Should he be in my opinion? Yes. But actors have never been held to a high standard with firearms scenes. They treat these people with kid gloves and don't empower then to learn about firearms and verify. Was Hannah ultimately responsible? Yes. But they need to hold actors responsible for double checking and not just rely on a film armorer. Baldwin is ignorant and film standards are weak requiring the actor to check and understand firearms. He gets a pass and the film industry needs to extract its heads from its a**.
Howland937
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I guess some of YOU don't understand how trials work, or a jury for that matter. Burden of proof has zero to do with "justifying negligence".
Ask OJ Simpson if a person can get away with murder. Or ask the illegal immigrant, multiple deportee who "found" a gun, "accidentally" pointed it and pulled the trigger. Killed the young lady in CA because he "didn't know it was loaded". Think Baldwin won't have better attorneys than that dude? Think again.
Guilty on paper (or the court of public opinion) doesn't mean guilty in the minds of a jury, if he doesn't plead out to a lesser charge anyway. It boggles my mind that you'd assume I'm taking up for the guy just because I pointed that out.
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No, the legislature and the superior courts make law. The District Attorney prosecutes people who violate it. That is happening now.
The significance of the SAG safety recommendation that no one ever point a firearm at another person is that it would strongly counter any attempt by the defense to claim that the apparently commonly held misconception that firearms are customarily pointed at people on movie sets is valid.
SAG is defending an actor? What a surprise! Notice that their defense avoids any mention of that annoying bit about pointing guns, and it does not address any points of law.
Baldwin pointed a firearm, which he surely knew to be inherently dangerous, at another person; it fired, taking a life. That meets the definition of the unusually insignificant crime with which he is charged.
There is nothing in the context, such as the fact that they were rehearsing a movie, or that he had been told that the gun was "cold", that would justifie his negligence.
Anchorite
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This one is going off the rails …
buck460XVR
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....this has been my argument all along. Like Baldwin himself, many here are putting the blame on everyone else but the one person that pointed the gun at another human being and pulled the trigger. She and the person behind her were not actors, so even it it was a rehearsal, there was no reason to to point the gun at them and pull the trigger. I doubt if anything will come out of the charges in Criminal Court, but hope like 'ell they roast his backside in Civil Court.
Really hard for me to believe that Baldwin would want to finish this film, much less, release it and try to make money off it. Odds are he is counting on the publicity surrounding the film, to pack his pockets.
Otto
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^^Could Keanu Reeves have made the movies without pointing a firearm at another person? Maybe, but the films wouldn’t have been successful.
Keanu’s kill stats….
John Wick 1 76 (he shoots 56)
John Wick 2 114 (he shoots 107)
John Wick 3 85 (he shoots 65)
John Wick 4 ?
I doubt that Keanu personally checked every round loaded but I haven’t asked him either.
Keanu’s kill stats….
John Wick 1 76 (he shoots 56)
John Wick 2 114 (he shoots 107)
John Wick 3 85 (he shoots 65)
John Wick 4 ?
I doubt that Keanu personally checked every round loaded but I haven’t asked him either.
buck460XVR
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....but those are all fictional kills. I have yet to hear of him killing any real folks during the production process. Maybe because he clears his firearm first? From my perspective in the photo you posted, it looks like the gun is pointed to the left of the BG's head. But, there is so much they can do now with special effects, who knows if there is really a BG there or if the image was inserted during editing.
Anyone who is truly passionate about firearms, also needs to be passionate about safe and responsible firearm handling. Doesn't matter who it is. Trying to justify the young lady's death and Baldwin's complete disregard of safe and responsible firearm handling, because he is an actor and it's a film, makes no sense to me at all. The idea that there are legitimate exceptions is grasping at straws.
bdickens
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Are you really this obtuse or are you conducting some kind of bizarre thought experiment?
He would certainly have had to make the viewers perceive that he was doing so.
Mosin Bubba
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Movie sets are working with people who aren't passionate about firearms and don't know about safe and responsible firearm handling.
It's like saying I need to know about harness designs to strap in and ride a zipline, or that I need to inspect the disc brakes every time I jump in someone else's car. Or heck, how to inspect window rivets before I get on an airplane. We trust our lives and safety to other people all the time, because we can't know everything.
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Speedo66
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Even if Baldwin isn’t technically responsible, due to other’s prior responsibility's, for the death, he certainly didn’t help his case with what sounds like perjury, “I didn’t pull the trigger”.
I’m sure though the jury may be instructed to disregard that, it will still be in the back of their minds.
Hiring an inexperienced and what looks to be an incompetent armorer won’t help either. Although, if (when?) she is found guilty, it may take some of the burden off him.
I’m sure though the jury may be instructed to disregard that, it will still be in the back of their minds.
Hiring an inexperienced and what looks to be an incompetent armorer won’t help either. Although, if (when?) she is found guilty, it may take some of the burden off him.
danersmiff
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I have not liked Mr. Baldwin's public personna, ever. When I heard the news report of him berating his daughter ON THE PHONE... ?? His arrogance has repeatedly offended me... Now to get to the heart of this matter, He is a veteran of making many movies, and movies with guns. He's at least 60 years old. You cannot tell me, that a man of his means, ($$), life experiences, repeated movie training, etc., do you want to tell me he never heard of clearing a chamber? (on EVERY weapon)... I for one feel he should fry. That director should not even have been wounded, much less dead. Mr. Baldwin is a piece crap. Burn baby Burn... .... okay, that felt good.... I am sorry my first post on this forum has to be a rant on Alec ****ing Baldwin.... but I have never been a fan of that man... yes Mr Speedo, let's see how it works out this time... d---
buck460XVR
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Kill someone because you did not know how to use the brakes, or because you ignored the "check brakes" idiot light will get you in the same boat as Baldwin is in. So, the excuse that Baldwin did not know how to operate a firearm is not, at least to me, a legitimate excuse to explain his lack of safe gun handling techniques. Even if it was a blank gun, as long as it is capable of firing a projectile, can be dangerous at close range.
.....I agree. It's like he is trying to feed off the ignorance of his fans to explain the death. Maybe he is that ignorant that he does not know what a trigger is and what it takes to fire it. Seeing as it was a SA revolver, he also had to cock the hammer first. Basically, he took the "safety" off, before he pulled the trigger.
....oh, she will be found guilty and her life as she knew it before the shot was fired, is over. Baldwin's high priced lawyers will do everything they can to pin this whole thing on her, even tho Baldwin was well aware of her inexperience and ineptness. The is a lot of talk about the gun being just left laying around for hours, unattended, before the fatal shot was fired. Just so many red lights.
doubleh
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I wasn't there to actually see what happened. I doubt anyone on this forum was. I think I saw a video of the incident right after it happened but I am forgetful. That said Baldwin had a lot of excuses after the fact of why he wasn't to blame. Tried to lay it at everyone's feet except his. I am not a Baldwin hater. He made some good movies in his younger days and I enjoyed them. Then he went into things that I had no interest in and I quit watching him. However he was the producer and from what was available in the new's, cut a lot of corners and ignored basic safety rules with this low budget film. He went to great lengths to say he never pulled the trigger but that the gun just fired on it's own. I don't blame him for not admitting to anything but he could have just kept his mouth shut and let his lawyers handle the matter. Anyone familiar with that type of revolver knows that is impossible with one in good working order and the FBI proved it was so. He pulled the trigger so he killed Hylena Hutchins. I certainly believe he didn't intend to but he did. Therefore he committed a crime and should suffer the penalty just like you or I would if we did the same.
Will he? This is NM and he has a "name". We will eventually see but I still expect him to draw no more than a suspended misdemeanor if even that.
Will he? This is NM and he has a "name". We will eventually see but I still expect him to draw no more than a suspended misdemeanor if even that.
Howland937
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Deleted. Refer to my final post.
But to answer, no. My shape is more round and less angular.
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Please be nice. People are allowed to have opinions you don't agree with.
Agreed, but bdickens started the coarse exchange. Words matter, so people need to learn how to utilize them properly and not be sarcastic and snarky.
RetiredUSNChief
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I'm not an attorney, but I suspect this question would be objected to and sustained.
What SHOULD be asked would revolve around the specific details regarding the actual safety training, rules, and procedures that are in place on such movie sets in which firearms props are used. Those are solid procedures which aren't based on personal opinions.
If you where wondering why Alec Baldwin’s first manslaughter chargers where mysteriously dropped, the New Mexico prosecutors sent the murder weapon to the FBI for testing to see if the gun could go off without pulling the trigger. It turns out the FBI lab experts had broken the revolver while testing it, to be specific, they hit the weapon with a hammer. The prosecutors were a bit nervous about making a case using evidence compromised by the FBI forensic lab. Luckily, prosecutors were able to “fix” their problem by sending the revolver to a different lab, Forensic Science Services of Arizona. Experts reconstructed the broken weapon and conducted a battery of more appropriate tests proving that the gun wouldn’t have just “gone off” spontaneously in someone’s hand. That provided prosecutors with the evidence they needed to proceed with manslaughter chargers agents Alec Baldwin.
Source: American Thinker; The FBI’s weird relationship with Alec Baldwin
Source: American Thinker; The FBI’s weird relationship with Alec Baldwin
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