Barnes TSX. Bad down range accuracy performance?

[GJgo]

Mine is a 1:10 twist. If I can find a 180gr that groups where I want at 400, I'll be happy!
http://www.weatherby.com/products/guns.asp?prd=Rifles&prd_sub_type=3&prod_code=VSM243NR4O

I actually did try the Barnes MRX. They didn't shoot any better than the TXS I was trying at the time, and to be honest, I couldn't stomach the cost. I like to shoot a lot.

Thanks for all the responses, fellas..

 

[GJgo]

Thought I'd give an update on my 300 WSM loads, I settled in on a great load using the 180 TSX and H4350 seated at 2.860. They're coming out of the tube at around 3040 fps. If I let the barrel cool between shots it'll poke a ragged hole. And, to fix the problem I started this thread about, it will shoot great groups at 300yds that are in line with the sub-MOA I'm seeing at 100 yds. Problem solved! (Note- I did try the new 180gr TTSX, and they don't shoot worth a darn compared to the standard 180TSX in my rifle. Less powder, more pressure, less consistency.)

Since I got that rifle sorted, I decided to get a backup- a Weatherby Sub-MOA 270 WSM. This one's in blued steel where the 300 is in stainless. I've tried 130 TSX and 130 TTSX, H4350 and H4831SC, and they shoot pretty inconsistent in all charge & seating depth combinations. I'm going to try some Reloder 19, and if that doesn't work, I'll be moving on to another brand of bullet..

 

[carbunkle]

barnes tsx and big game

I have some recent experience with 180gr barnes tsx .30 calibre
bullets in Africa. I shot zebra, gemsbok, greater kudu, and impala,
all with the same ammunition, shots taken from 50 yards to 265 yards.
Performance on each was about the same. Every shot was a complete
pass-through and all game was dead within a few seconds. Both impala
were knocked off their feet with good blood spray through the exit wounds.
Impala buck is smaller than a white-tail buck deer and a Greater Kudu is about 550 lbs- simliar in size to a bull elk. The Kudu was shot broadside
at 265 lasered yards. My point is, with the TSX, it doesn't matter what
plains game you shoot. It's accurate, it expands, and it passes through
like a buzz saw. I don't think you have to worry about ballistic co-efficients,
sectional density, etc. Just get a heavy, 180 grain TSX and kill your game.

 

[Casefull]

1,200lb 6x6

That would be the first 1200 lb elk ever shot in the lower 48. lol Most elk never get close to 1000 lbs let alone 1200...think a horse or moose.

 

[MCMXI]

Boy, this is an old thread.

TTSX bullets are my "go to" hunting bullets for 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x47mm Lapua, .308 Win, .300 Win Mag and .375 H&H Mag. They have proven time and time again to be accurate and deadly. Here's a 5-shot group with my .375 H&H at 100 yards and two shots at 400 yards.

 

[Bart B.]

I think 1:12 twists are wonderful for 30 caliber magnums shooting 190 to 200 grain bullers very accurate through 1000 yards. They've been doing that for 50 years in long range matches. 180's from a 300 Win mag leaving over 3100 fps from a 1:13 twist barrel tested sub MOA at 1000; from that 9.3 pound rifle whose recoil during barrel time is far from small and repeatable in the way the muzzle points while bullets are going through the barrel. After all, if a 1:12 twist 24" barrel in 308 Win shooting 190's winning matches is pretty good, wouldn't the same bullet leaving 400 to 500 fps faster be OK in a 1:12 twist barrel?

All rifle's groups get bigger in MOA as range increases. That's caused by spread in bullet BC, muzzle velocity, subtle cross winds and air density. A 15% increase in MOA for each hundred yards past the first one is common for commercial rifles shooting commercial ammo or hand loads.

One more thing. If the barrel's groove diameter is larger than the bullet's diameter, test groups will have a larger spread. Smallest groups won't change much, if at all. Largest groups will be bigger; accuracy gets worse.

 

[MCMXI]

All rifle's groups get bigger in MOA as range increases. That's caused by spread in bullet BC, muzzle velocity, subtle cross winds and air density. A 15% increase in MOA for each hundred yards past the first one is common for commercial rifles shooting commercial ammo or hand loads

I don't necessarily agree because as I've stated a number of times the relationship between moa and range is not linear. If you're trying to shoot moa at 100 yards you're trying to land bullets inside a circle with diameter of approximately 1" and an area of .785 in.^2. At a range of say 400 yards which is 4X the distance, the area of the approximately 4" circle in which you're trying to land bullets is 12.566 in.^2 which is 16X the area.

 

[Casefull]

Thought I'd give an update on my 300 WSM loads, I settled in on a great load using the 180 TSX and H4350 seated at 2.860. They're coming out of the tube at around 3040 fps. If I let the barrel cool between shots it'll poke a ragged hole. And, to fix the problem I started this thread about, it will shoot great groups at 300yds that are in line with the sub-MOA I'm seeing at 100 yds. Problem solved! (Note- I did try the new 180gr TTSX, and they don't shoot worth a darn compared to the standard 180TSX in my rifle. Less powder, more pressure, less consistency.)

Since I got that rifle sorted, I decided to get a backup- a Weatherby Sub-MOA 270 WSM. This one's in blued steel where the 300 is in stainless. I've tried 130 TSX and 130 TTSX, H4350 and H4831SC, and they shoot pretty inconsistent in all charge & seating depth combinations. I'm going to try some Reloder 19, and if that doesn't work, I'll be moving on to another brand of bullet..

FYI, I could not get my 300wsm, montana, to group decently until I went with a max load of superformance powder. That has not been my experience but it was with that rifle.

 

[Bart B.]

If you're trying to shoot moa at 100 yards you're trying to land bullets inside a circle with diameter of approximately 1" and an area of .785 in.^2. At a range of say 400 yards which is 4X the distance, the area of the approximately 4" circle in which you're trying to land bullets is 12.566 in.^2 which is 16X the area.

Do you measure at the outside edge of the bullet holes?

This is the first time I've heard of a shot group area. That's not the way all the group shooters I know of do it. They measure the extreme spread of the two widest shots' centers. Their axis angle is random. And I've never heard of the area of a circle that diameter used to define the size of a group. But yes, a circle of some diameter is what the groups' extreme spreads would be.

Extreme spread of widest two shot hole centers is the traditional and accepted standard in the shooting sports. And it's the dimension that increases a little angular wise as range increases. Except when positive compensation of vertical barrel whip shoots slower velocity bullets at a higher angle than faster ones so they land at the same place.

 

[MCMXI]

Bart B., I measure groups center to center like most others, see my targets above. However, think about moa cicular targets at different ranges and notice that the area of those targets is increasing as a square of the diameter. So at 800 yards the moa area is 64X times the area at 100 yards. So my point is that it can be easier to hit a 4" circle at 400 yards than a 1" cicle at 100 yards. Ths is consistent with the group being randomly distributed around the group center.