Batch of .38 Special on Herter's Press

[film495]

Getting set up to do a batch of .38 Special on my Dad's old Herter's press. I think in the back there is an RCBS Turret press I might get set up for this at some point.

I think it is 315 cases if I did my math right

75 S&B, Once Fired
50 Magtech, OF
25 Winchester, OF
50 Federal, OF
50 Starline, New
40 Winchester - primed, OF
25 - CBC stamped in a Federal box - primed, OF





I cleaned then deprimed and sized everything recently, the primed cases I left flared and primed ready to load maybe a few years ago. I think I'll just get everything up to the same point in the process prepped and primed and flared, and then load all of it at the same time.

the firing end of the process is a new Taurus 856UL 3" Barrel and a S&W 10-7 4" Barrel - which is at the gunsmith getting a new hand to sure up the timing

Figired I'd share how I do this and my guess is I probably get a lot better at it and pick up a few more tricks.

 

[Reinz]

That Herters #3 press is an absolute beast! It should last several more lifetimes as long as it doesn’t succumb to rust.

 

[film495]

That Herters #3 press is an absolute beast! It should last several more lifetimes as long as it doesn’t succumb to rust.

looks and works the same as it ever did. always looked extrememly old, whatever that look is - when I saw it as a kid it looked like it was hundreds of years old, but it is from the late 60s I think.

 

[rocirish]

Here are the three pieces that you need to replace on the press to eliminate the string to hold the handle. You see them attached to a magnet.

 

[41 Mag]

I have my dad's old Wells press set up. It is basically a carbon copy of the Herter's. There is no telling how many rounds it has produced since the early 60's. They really are built heavy duty.

Your process is a good one, and I have loaded thousands of rounds of 357, 41, & 44mag on the Well's in the same manor. In the early 80's I shot several hundred rounds of each weekly, and then processed them just as you said, by caliber, then when all were sized, primed, and flared, I'd set up the powder measure and go to finishing them.

As for those 3 pieces, yep they seem to have migrated away for mine as well, and yes the ram WILL mash a finger. I also tied an old shot bag under the ram to catch primers. I've always been a barefoot versus shoes person, and I hate stepping on those things....

 

[film495]

Here are the three pieces that you need to replace on the press to eliminate the string to hold the handle. You see them attached to a magnet.View attachment 1180737

three pieces? the thin rope is only one piece

oh - I developed the habit of resting the arm on my knee anytime my fingers are near the pinch point. can't imagine another way to do it.

 

[Captcurt]

I have an old 2-station Herter's press that I bought used back in the early 70's. Pretty handy loading rifle rounds with both dies set. It must have been engineered by a German because it is super heavy duty. I still use it occasionally but use a Rock Chucker for the serious stuff.

 

[Reinz]

Here are the three pieces that you need to replace on the press to eliminate the string to hold the handle. You see them attached to a magnet.View attachment 1180737

Not all number 3’s had this ability. I don’t know when Herters made the mod.

 

[HowardC]

Half my reloading life has been using a Herter's Model U3 Super press. Started on it in about '73 doing 38's, 357's, 30-30's, 30-06 and 7 mag. Wasn't until I delved into the wildcats and expanded my shooting that I added the Rockchuckers, both at my house and the home ranch. It's been handy to load a few rounds and be able to step outside to try 'em. It's plenty strong for all resizing, swaging and reforming brass. I still use the pistol dies as the Hornady nitride sizer doesn't properly resize all cases.

I can't see any difference in rounds loaded on the Herter's and the RCBS. You're right on the danger of the handle dropping. Never got caught, but occasionally have the clang of the drop. Might go to the string trick when my big rubber bands break. The detent ball works ok, but if you keep it loose enough to be easy to operate, it'll still drop sometimes.

Ah, the times..... -West out

 

[film495]

Half my reloading life has been using a Herter's Model U3 Super press. Started on it in about '73 doing 38's, 357's, 30-30's, 30-06 and 7 mag. Wasn't until I delved into the wildcats and expanded my shooting that I added the Rockchuckers, both at my house and the home ranch. It's been handy to load a few rounds and be able to step outside to try 'em. It's plenty strong for all resizing, swaging and reforming brass. I still use the pistol dies as the Hornady nitride sizer doesn't properly resize all cases.

I can't see any difference in rounds loaded on the Herter's and the RCBS. You're right on the danger of the handle dropping. Never got caught, but occasionally have the clang of the drop. Might go to the string trick when my big rubber bands break. The detent ball works ok, but if you keep it loose enough to be easy to operate, it'll still drop sometimes.

Ah, the times..... -West out

detent ball?

 

[alfsauve]

I bought my Herter’s in 1970. So many good memories. Of course back then loading 50 rounds was a big deal. Now I load 500 in the same amount of time.

 

[film495]

cleaned up my bench and got all the tools and equipment out I think I'll need, I just lay evernthing out of a fresh set of shop towels laid down on the bench just to have a fresh working surface. My guess is the Herter's beam scale came with the press, seems to work good after a lot of cleaning it up and testing and tinkering, and cleaning. I use the digital scale, but use the beam scale as a sanity check, and go back and weigh maybe every 10th or 20th charge on the beam scale, just cause I've seen too many digital instruments drift. Never seen this scale do that, this digital scale will drag or be slow, so - you trickly and by the time the scale updates, 2, 5, 10 seconds, then you're over, it is almost faster to dricke with the beam scale. I have a plan to try dipper and the new scale tray that is also a funnel, so - I hope to make that step better, I really didn't like it last time, just too tedius and powder sticking to the funne, weighing each charge to .1 accuracy, which is propably where I need to lighten up for plinking mouse far loads.

I need to make a card or a one page print with the process and associated numbers and measurements for .38 Special. Thought I had one, but didn't find it in my folder, probably quicker to make a new one as I go that to keep looking ... lol

 

[film495]

made a 1 page reference with the idea I can just fill in the blanks and then laminate it and keep in my reloading folder for future use.

38 Special Reloading Card - November 11th 2023

Case Prep
Tumble/Clean/Inspect
Sort/Inpect, separate by headstamp into containers
Size and Deprime
Measure case lenght to spec(Max Lenght 1.155"), trim to 1.145" as needed
Inspect Clean primer pockets
Flair case mouth
Tumble/Clean/Inspect, do last to remove any sizing wax or lube

Charging
Prime cases, check for proper primer seating
Charge cases, visually check for double charges in cases
Seat bullets, to OAL xxx TBD, check neck tension - .003 and OAL
Crimp, medium roll crimp, do as separate step
Finish inspection and pack into labeled boxes

Label
Name - Your Name
Cartrdidge - 38 Special
Case - Federal, Magtech, etc (put actual xxxTBD)
Primer - CCI 500 small pistol
Bullet - Speer 158 grain LSWC
OAL - To Cannelure TBD (Speer Data LSWC OAL-1.44")
Powder - Winchester 231
Powder Charge - 3.3-3.7, 3.5 target, check actual xxx TBD

Speer Web and #12 Reloading Manual

https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/handgun/38_Special_158_L.pdf

158 Grain; LSWC - OAL-1.44", LSWC HP - OAL1.455", LRN - OAL1.510"
Winchester 321, Case - Speer, Primer - CCI500
Speer #12 (158 LSWC page 511, Win231 Start - 4.0 grains 792 fps, Max - 4.4 grains 878fps)
Start Charge Win231 - 3.8 grains - 783fps, Max Charge Win231 - 4.3 grains - 863fps
Trim to Lenght 1.145" (Speer #12)

SAMMI

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/SAAMI-Z299.3-2022-Centerfire-Pistol-Revolver-Approved-12-13-2022.pdf

Max Case Lenght - 1.155" - .020
OAL 1.275" MIN - 1.550" MAX

 

[HowardC]

detent ball?

As rocirish described above, the ram 'tube'on the press has a threaded hole perpendicular to the ram. This hole holds a small ball, a spring, and a set screw to keep it in place. (as noted in his pic with the magnet. There is a corresponding 'ring' groove milled near the upper end of the ram such that this ball catches in the groove and holds the ram in its down position, with the handle up. I always learned these type of 'holding' balls were called 'detents'. I don't know the origin of the term. Another application is on a compound mitre saw, where the rotating saw platform will 'catch' at 90 degrees, usually 45 degrees, maybe 30 and 22.5, depending on the accuracy of the saw. The idea is the mechanical movement of something can be readily and accurately positioned .
On my Herter's press, the ball has worn a small longitudinal groove in the side of the ram. Doesn't seem to hurt anything. If you tighten the set screw to hold the ram firmly in the down position, with the handle up, it creates drag or pressure on the ram through its movement. So, one picks a happy medium..... I'm guessing his is the same or similar.
-West out

 

[film495]

As rocirish described above, the ram 'tube'on the press has a threaded hole perpendicular to the ram. This hole holds a small ball, a spring, and a set screw to keep it in place. (as noted in his pic with the magnet. There is a corresponding 'ring' groove milled near the upper end of the ram such that this ball catches in the groove and holds the ram in its down position, with the handle up. I always learned these type of 'holding' balls were called 'detents'. I don't know the origin of the term. Another application is on a compound mitre saw, where the rotating saw platform will 'catch' at 90 degrees, usually 45 degrees, maybe 30 and 22.5, depending on the accuracy of the saw. The idea is the mechanical movement of something can be readily and accurately positioned .
On my Herter's press, the ball has worn a small longitudinal groove in the side of the ram. Doesn't seem to hurt anything. If you tighten the set screw to hold the ram firmly in the down position, with the handle up, it creates drag or pressure on the ram through its movement. So, one picks a happy medium..... I'm guessing his is the same or similar.
-West out

what do you know? my press does have that hole in the side there. just never figured that out, cool.



I got the case prep done on these early this AM, so ready to prime once they dry. I thought about tumbling for a wash the lube off, but went with a soapy hot water bath and air dry. Thinking about process, after I prime, I'll set up the seater die before I do any charges. then I can just charge a group of 25 at a time or whatever is working and seat bullets in the group of cases right after, and then go back and crimp the whole lot of it all in one sitting to finish the thing as a batch process.

 

[HowardC]

what do you know? my press does have that hole in the side there. just never figured that out, cool.



I got the case prep done on these early this AM, so ready to prime once they dry. I thought about tumbling for a wash the lube off, but went with a soapy hot water bath and air dry. Thinking about process, after I prime, I'll set up the seater die before I do any charges. then I can just charge a group of 25 at a time or whatever is working and seat bullets in the group of cases right after, and then go back and crimp the whole lot of it all in one sitting to finish the thing as a batch process.

View attachment 1181150

Aye Film, I load 'em in a similar fashion. I charge 5-10-15 at a time, setting them in the loading block. Then, after I inspect them with a light, I seat that batch. that way, I don't have a lot of cases sitting open with powder, and not so many I can't fairly readily get up and leave for some reason. I feel the last illuminated inspection is important to guard against improper powder charges, etc.

I dry tumble my cases, corn cob or walnut, and wipe them with a rag as I process them. Yea, it's slower, but doesn't bother me. I also just wipe them before and after sizing to sorta keep dies clean, and 'dry' or de-lube cases after sizing . Old socks work great. I use RCBS pad, or Imperial wax, so it wipes off well, and allows quick inspection of case. Yea, were I using a progressive, might have to figure an alternative.

-West out

 

[film495]

put them back in the tubs and hit them with a blowdrier for a few minutes after sitting out with a fan on for a day. I'm sure they are good, but in the back of my mind I see a piece of dry tumbling media soaked with moisture, figure in 5 minutes, heating up the cases good as a last dry check would dry even that out. primed the lot, came out to 300ish. Did them right on the press, seemed to work decent and go pretty quick really.



press seems to be running well. I set up the seater die and made a dummy round out of habit before looking at throwing charges. The OAL I got seating to the crimp groove was 1..47 inches a three thousands over the listed OAL for the bullet, but I'm relatively confident I did this correctly, checked it against another bullet out of the box and inspected it with magnifying glass. The headstamped brass I picked from had some right at Max case lenght, so - I should have measured the case, my assumption is it is one of the longer, most batches had a variation of 3 or 4 thousands in case lenght by headstamp, and that seemed consisten accross brands.

I'm just going to go with the 1.47 for now, if whatever reason later I want to push some in a few thousands more I can, but I think it is good,



I still need to do a visiual post prime inspection of the boxes, I'll just line them up like this again, and go back and forth over the cases with a light and look for anything visually that seems off or diferent, play a little try to find the one that doesn't look like the others.

The flashlight check of the powder level in the cases once charged while they are still in the loading block is one I like also. Very quick check, seems worth it.

Getting there.

 

[Mark_Mark]

You got your books, sturdy table, Press that daddy used… could not think of a more precious moment!

I hope my boys will do the same with my old Rock Chucker when I’m long and gone

 

[Bazoo]

Nice vintage setup. I like it. I had a Wells press for a few years. I enjoy using vintage stuff and making ammo at my own pace. Thanks for sharing.

 

[film495]

I loaded 100 and did end up bumping them down to 1.44", so for what it is worth, the speer published lenght hits the top of the crimp groove really spot on.

edit - I went back and did another round of 150, so - 250 total charged and seated 100 to go, then just crimping is left.

ummm, how are you supposed to actually use the RCBS expand flair die? It is newish, just 4 or 5 years old if that. In the direcitons it made it sound like expanding and flairing was doing an expansion, and then for lead going back and doing it again to add flair to the case mouth, but that doens't make sense, it has to be just one pull of the press. I don't know if I should expand with the plug deeper or not. The bullets snap into the case like the directions say they should, I actually started fitting 5 in the loading block accross at a time and then bringing them to the press individually with the bullet already started, feel like I'm less likely to spill that way, just feels much more stable and less arm movement overall. I did shave a bit of lead, but not crazy, just tiny bits on the shell holder, and the cases fit into one of those drop in checkers, I think a Dillon - but, I should double check exactly what that is checking. I'll run each of them through that again after they are crimped, but I wanted to gauge where I was and they all seemed good, a few hung up and stuck lightly, but from experience that is usually from a lack of cleanliness, little lead shavings and all, seems to make sense to me anyway.

 

[film495]

So how did I do? I finished these up and labeled boxes, just packaged and ready to go. They all got crimped and dropped into the little .38 Special gauge, then right into the boxes. I think that is enough crimp, no?

 

[Captcurt]

I need to make a card or a one page print with the process and associated numbers and measurements for .38 Special. Thought I had one, but didn't find it in my folder, probably quicker to make a new one as I go that to keep looking ... lol
View attachment 1180924

You need a new Manual. That old Speer doesn't have Creedmoor in it.

 

[HowardC]

Aye Film:
If I am reading your post correctly, I'll comment:

I don't sweat COL much. I go by the books, with some slight tolerance. Case length is important, but most pistol cartridges don't stretch much. As long as they crimp in the cannelure, or crimping groove, I go with it. I don't remember ever trimming pistol/revolver cases.

My usage of 'expander' dies is just to expand(flare) the mouth of the case to easily facilitate the insertion of the bullet, either lead or jacketed. As far as I know, that's its only purpose. I don't have a straight-wall rifle, but I presume one would expand those cartridge cases as well. The expansion is really just the flaring of the case mouth. Nothing else gets expanded. The deeper you go with the expander, the more flare you put on the case mouth, until you can't get it into the seating die. I don't know why flaring is not necessary for bottle necked cases, except those are usually chamfered during case prep. Perhaps others more knowledgeable can chime in.

I've learned not to expand cases so much you can't get 'em into the seating die........ I just do enough to see a little flare and have a bullet sorta 'sit' in the case mouth.

When the bullet is seated, the seating die removes the mouth flare, and puts the crimp on the case mouth. For revolvers, the roll crimp. For autoloaders, since the cartridge headspaces on the case mouth, you just need to bring the case mouth back to straight, and then exert the taper crimp on the case. Some people do the crimp integral in the seating step, others do the crimp as a separate operation after seating the bullet. I've learned to to it in one step for 38/357, but I did get a separate taper crimp for 45ACP. I don't know what you mean by 'snap into the case'. I guess I don't experience that.

If you are shaving lead off the bullets, you might need more flare on the case mouth; and/or syncing the seating vs crimp movements in the die to have the crimp and seating finish simultaneously. I've found that tricky to do. Maybe I'm not coordinated enough...

I don't have any 'checker' tools, I just see whether they chamber in the gun and cycle through the autoloader. If you're running heavy loads in .357, maybe in .38, check if you're getting recoil movement of the bullet. 38s may not do it, but some 357s will lengthen before the last round in the cylinder is fired. This phenomena may display the need for a heavier crimp. Mark a few rounds and check 'em with a caliper as you shoot the cylinder. Do it sequentially during firing and see if they (especially the last round) lengthen with each successive round fired. I've not had 'em extend out the end of the cylinder, but certainly lengthen significantly. Some people claim it's due to heavy bullets in light revolvers, but I experience it in my Blackhawk and M65 stainless Smith, with 125 gn Rem Golden Sabres. So, I guess they weren't crimped enough.

Getting pretty windy here, so I'll quit.
-West out

 

[film495]

I went to put these rounds away until they go to the range. I figured I'd check them one more time, primer seating, crimp, just scan the boxes. Two visuals showed up, one - some brass whiskers from crimping, mostly the Magtech Brass, so - is it imperative to remove those? The crimps look good, but there are those super fine brass hairs. They seem like they would not make a happy chamber. I also found some tarnishing pretty quickly, so - I also don't really want all my brass to tarnishing to high heaven, but maybe it doesn't matter. Will the tarnish come off next time I tumble them? Should I not worry about it? What say you?

 

[lightman]

This brings back memories! Grandpa bought a loading set-up from Herters back in the late 60's when we first started reloading. The press did not have the compound linkage that most presses have today and you almost needed a cheater pipe to resize 30-06 cases. It would almost turn the heavy table over so we kept several hundred pounds of lead ingots on the hack of the table. I sold that press after Herters closed up when shell holders for it got hard to find and bought a Rockchucker. Most of my Herters equipment except the beam scale is gone now. I thing Redding probably made the scale.
Thanks for the memories!