BE-86

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It's good that we have a steely-eyed reloading guy :scrutiny: like bds to point out the discrepancy in the BE-86 data. I'm also glad to see the rapid response from Paul @ Alliant to address the incorrect loading charts.
 
You know, this is the "High Road" ... ;)

While we are not perfect, I think many members and THR admin/staff/mods try to maintain a "higher" standard forum (believe me, Walkalong stay busy keeping H&R category on the "High Road" side) :D

Yes, definitely appreciate manufacturer involvement in the forum as it provides the most direct communication with their customers and their needs.
 
They also missed some of the loads I had worked up for 357Sig, 32H&R Mag and 38 Super Auto +P, so hopefully they will get those up soon also.
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Looking forward to seeing these two.
 
How does one do the static guard treatment you speak of?
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I just hold a can of static guard about a 12"away from the mouth of the powder measure and give it a quick shot. Then let it set for 10-15 minutes to let it dry. It does wonders for consistency.
If you have some humidity in your reloading room you may not need Static Guard.
I have to use it a lot.

Also I used the adjustable disc, but I usually have no trouble with it.
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And you probably won't. I only have to spray my pro auto disc maybe 3 time a year. It is the best behaved measure I have concerning static. I always thought Lee uses better anti-static plastic than all the others.

I only sprayed it this time as a precaution, I wanted all the consistency I could get with the .357mags I loaded to check for consistency for a powder forward test.
 
titegroup tiger, I will develop some 41RemMag loads as I can, depending on what bullets I have. Right now, the only bullets I have are the hunting bullets Federal loads their ammo with. Really, BE-86 isn't designed for the magnum applications, except for target shooting and maybe shorter barrel loads.
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I know from the burn rate it isn't meant for magnums and I wouldn't waste expensive hunting bullets to work up a load for it either.

I'm using Xtreme plated bullets that are good for 1200fps so I can't load them up to magnum loads anyways. I'll keep using Power Pistol for my mid range loads, but I appreciate the reply.
 
tightgroup tiger said:
I just hold a can of static guard about a 12"away from the mouth of the powder measure and give it a quick shot. Then let it set for 10-15 minutes to let it dry. It does wonders for consistency.
If you have some humidity in your reloading room you may not need Static Guard.
I have to use it a lot.


And you probably won't. I only have to spray my pro auto disc maybe 3 time a year. It is the best behaved measure I have concerning static. I always thought Lee uses better anti-static plastic than all the others.

I only sprayed it this time as a precaution, I wanted all the consistency I could get with the .357mags I loaded to check for consistency for a powder forward test.
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Just to make sure, by "powder measure" you mean just the disc, not the hopper/powder holder, right? Thanks for the explanation.

Russellc
 
Happy

I am really happy to see that BE 86 is in the hands of some THR members. I had just about given up on it ever being available. I am also one that noticed that CFE Pistol appears to be very close to BE 86. I was able to get a pound of CFE Pistol a while ago and have loaded a few small batches in 9 & 45ACP. I have not fired any of them yet but I am anxious to try them and see how they compare to my proven loads.I will start looking for and asking about BE 86. It will be interesting to see how BE 86 compares to CFE Pistol.:)
 
Just to make sure, by "powder measure" you mean just the disc, not the hopper/powder holder, right? Thanks for the explanation.
Click to expand...

I don't spray the disc itself. I have the adjustable disc and quick shot into the hopper and it gets down in there.
Don't use to much, you only want a mist in there. Then let it dry for about 10 to 15 minutes. I usually open my door to the garage and let humidity in there and accelerates the affect.

When I dumped the BE-86 out of my Pro Auto Disc measure it all came out but about 3 flakes. My Hornady measure was the same. I didn't spray the Uni-flow and I had enough to powder sticking to the sides to load another shell and it wouldn't dump out. All small flake powders do this to me.
Nature of the beast.
 
Received a PM back from Paul @ Alliant predicting availability of their powders should improve shortly.

So, I'll be on the lookout for some BE-86, and give it a shot when I can find some. *pun intended ;)

Thanks Paul/Alliant for your involvement here - online presence can be good for PR!
 
I think Alliant is headed in the right direction with BE-86.

While many reloaders like Unique even though it does not meter well, they recognize the range of flexibility of the powder's burn rate to load most popular pistol calibers. But many new reloaders shy away from Unique because it does not meter well and are often directed by seasoned reloaders to better metering W231/HP-38. And guess what? New reloaders over time become seasoned reloaders. ;)

Now with BE-86, seasoned reloaders can suggest "better metering, similar to Unique burn rate" powder to new reloaders without reservation. Not sure how clean BE-86 burns at mid-to-high range load data but that is secondary to accuracy in my book like Promo which is not well metering/cleanest powder but produces accurate loads (BTW, I found Herco to be very clean burning and accurate for 40S&W with plated/lead bullets and is now my new favorite powder for 40S&W) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=743416

Now if Alliant could make similar formulation/size powder at WST/Titegroup/N320/W231/HP-38 burn rate that will produce accurate mid-to-high range load data loads, they will get a lot of interest from match shooters looking to make minor/major power factor loads (especially if the powder is not temperature sensitive like W231/HP-38 to more consistently meet PF requirements). And like auto racing, what works on race track usually becomes popular and makes it to the highways. ;) Since Power Pistol is designated BE-84, Alliant could call this new powder BE-88? :D
 
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Since Alliant does not list start Loads. I decided to load up some 45 ACP start loads by reducing thier max loads by about 10%. I used 6.1 grs of BE-86 under a 200 gr SNS Coated LRNFN with the following results;

5 inch Barrel velocity avg of 10 shots=825.4 fps
4 inch Barrel velocity avg of 10 shots=797.6 fps
3.3 inch Barrel velocity avg of 10 shots=756.8 fps

One of my favorite light loads for 45 ACP is 6.4 grs of Power Pistol using the same bullet as above. they chronograph as follows;

5 inch Barrel velocity avg of 10 shots=825.1 fps
4 icnh barrel velocity avg of 10 shots=816.6 fps
3.3 inch Barrel velocity avg of 10 shots=749.6 fps

I also tried some midrange loads in 357 Magnum. Using 357 Mag cases. 6.6 grs of BE-86 over a 158 gr SNS Coated LSWC gave me the following results;

4 inch Barrel velocity avg of 10 shots=1015 fps SD=9.9
2 3/4 inch Barrel velocity avg of 10 shots=969.6 fps SD=11.5

I made no attempt to position the powder in the 357 mag loads and judgeing from the SD's it is not very postion sensetive.The powder measured very consistantly and was a pleasure to work with. For those of you who use the Lee Pro Auto Disc, I used a VMD of 0.09385 to calculate the amount of Powder each disc would throw and it was just about spot on.

All in all I am really liking this new Powder.:)
 
A low SD with the powder back or level doesn't necessarily mean it will do well powder forward, but it is a good/encouraging sign.
 
bds said:
I think Alliant is headed in the right direction with BE-86.

While many reloaders like Unique even though it does not meter well, they recognize the range of flexibility of the powder's burn rate to load most popular pistol calibers. But many new reloaders shy away from Unique because it does not meter well and are often directed by seasoned reloaders to better metering W231/HP-38. And guess what? New reloaders over time become seasoned reloaders. ;)

Now with BE-86, seasoned reloaders can suggest "better metering, similar to Unique burn rate" powder to new reloaders without reservation. Not sure how clean BE-86 burns at mid-to-high range load data but that is secondary to accuracy in my book like Promo which is not well metering/cleanest powder but produces accurate loads (BTW, I found Herco to be very clean burning and accurate for 40S&W with plated/lead bullets and is now my new favorite powder for 40S&W) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=743416

Now if Alliant could make similar formulation/size powder at WST/Titegroup/N320/W231/HP-38 burn rate that will produce accurate mid-to-high range load data loads, they will get a lot of interest from match shooters looking to make minor/major power factor loads (especially if the powder is not temperature sensitive like W231/HP-38 to more consistently meet PF requirements). And like auto racing, what works on race track usually becomes popular and makes it to the highways. ;) Since Power Pistol is designated BE-84, Alliant could call this new powder BE-88? :D
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Agreed. I have not yet shot my BE-86 loads but it definitely meters better than Unique. I love Unique for 9mm, seems to be very safe to use. Fluffy enough in 9mm to make it about impossible to double load, and it safe over quite a wide range of weights and OAL. Makes short work of 9mm plinking loads on a turret press. Mid power loads can vary both OAL and powder weight by a reasonable amount and be well within the safe range.

Russellc
 
Walkalong,
I will be testing powder forward tomorrow morning to the best of my limitations (without a chrono). I can't stand factory ammo because I can detect the slightest difference in recoil so I will be watching for that.

I wish there were someway I could get some of this BE-86 to you, for you to test and report your own findings to us. I have no doubt your curious as heck about it and I would love to have your opinion on it.
I wish I had some way...

I'm a maintenance supervisor and an industrial electricity and controls guy and I work mostly 7 days a week with the call outs, keeping the company (which I love) running the best I can. This doesn't leave me much time to get to post offices and what not. I'm just a country hick with to many guns and I don't even know what the rules are for mailing gun powder to someone let alone to be able to get to a post office during their hours to be able to mail a pound of it to you.

But, PM me if you are interested. I have a crap load of comp time and maybe, I'll be able get this done.

If you don't pm me, no problem.
 
Yep, you can't mail powder. I'll pick some up sooner or later.

I am a "Team Leader" for "Engineering" (Read - shop supervisor for maintenance.) at a local hospital, so we do something similar. I take call every other week. It's usually pretty boring stuff though. The range I shoot at is about 15 minutes from work so I can go there when on call. Works out well.

I am looking forward to your results.
 
I wouldn't advocate breaking any laws BUT a person could take several of the biggest cases the have and stuff them full of powder and seat any old bullet on them and ups them to another person. The second person could pull the bullets and dump the powder.

Yes, it's work, but it does get around that whole can't mail powder thing. If you had some large rifle cases it would work fairly well for enough to test some pistol loads.
 
A private individual citizen can't ship loaded ammo via US postal svc. You have to use UPS, print and attach a special label, and drop it at a distribution hub. The UPS Store will not accept it. It's kind of a PITA.
 
I did the powder forward test in my old model 28 this morning and I can't detect one bit of variation in recoil, or report.
I loaded the following

7.3 gr of BE-86
Xtreme 158gr plated SWC
WSP primers
OAL of 1.580"

This target is only at 7yds with a 6" model 28 but I was shooting offhand unsupported and I totally screwed the pouch on the third shot. Not a flyer, I pulled the shot.

The groups were excellent, the recoil is still a little more than I would have thought but very easy to control out of an N-frame. I really like this stuff and I typically load on the hot side of what I'm using.
These were on the edge of being to hot for precision shooting and can be downloaded easily.

I put a quarter on the same target and covered all 5 holes with it for perspective.
I still think Alliant has a winner here.
 

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