Bear Attack in Canada Last Week Settle Guns vs Spray

[D.B. Cooper]

Not sure where this should go, or if there's already a discussion, but...

There was a grizzly attack in Canda last week that killed a couple and their dog. It appears that they did everything right. Hung their food in a tree away from camp, etc. Reports are that park rangers found their tent smashed and their e-readers out, so it looks like they might have been attacked while in their tent. What grabbed my attention was the statement "One can of bear pray had been fully discharged, but htis bear was not to be determined."

I spend a lot of time in the Alaska woods. I've long been a proponent of bear spray. (I'm in the minority on that up here.) But for about the past 7-8 years, I've also carried a revolver. Alaska's laws are such that killing a bear out of season is worth risking your life to avoid the hassle. This past hunting season, I opted to leave the revolver at home. I mean...it's an absolute boat anchor. Never, for a second, do you forget that you have it on you. I also haven't run across a bear in the wild in quite a few years. On one trip this past hunting season, we had a mechanical failure and ended up spending the night in our side by side. My hunting partner had also left his pistol at home. It was an uneventful night, aside from the cold, but that experience and this article really has me rethinking.

Needless to say, I won't be leaving the revolver behind anymore, although I may leave the spray behind from now on. I definitely no longer buy the line from US Fish and Wildlife that spray is better than bullets, although, I'm sure that debate will go on; it's not unlike the 9mm vs 45acp debate, or, for that matter, 70s disco-that crap will never die.

Here's a link to one of, I'm sure, many articles on the event.

Banff grizzly bear attack: Uncle reveals chilling final message he received from Canadian couple before deaths

The relative of one of the victims of a fatal bear attack in Canada’s Banff National Park says he received an SOS call and message from the couple.

www.foxnews.com

 

[InTheSwamp]

I've also carried a revolver

Smart

I opted to leave the revolver at home

Not smart

I won't be leaving the revolver behind anymore,

Smarter

 

[hso]

and their dog

Key point there.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Key point there.

How so? In what way?

 

[InTheSwamp]

How so? In what way?

Scratching my semi-bald head there...
...
Was it a snack?

 

[hso]

While humans may follow rules about bears, dogs can't. The dog may have been the initiator of the unfortunate bear interaction or it may have exacerbated the situation. We'll never know, but I would not be surprised if more information concludes the dog was engaged with the bear and the humans couldn't drive the bear away. Bait for the bear in the first place or baiting the bear once it arrived.

 

[1KPerDay]

How so? In what way?

Could be that the bear liked the way the dog smelled or sounded or reacted to it. Or maybe it was a non factor.

 

[InTheSwamp]

While humans may follow rules about bears, dogs can't.

Some Humans can't follow rules about dogs.

 

[hso]

Some Humans can't follow rules about dogs.

Yep. Don't take fluffy into bear territory and complicate the interactions.

 

[InTheSwamp]

Yep. Don't take fluffy into bear territory and complicate the interactions.

Agree. Of course, that comes with the caveat that a few trainned fluffers can be useful to take down a bear, or a Mammoth for that matter. Not that this sad story includes Mammoth hunters.

 

[dodo bird]

Dogs can be a great warning/deterrent with black bears especially. I don’t have any experience with brown/grizzly fwiw. Almost any gun is better than a can of bear spray that is depleted. Also “stuff” happens that you sometimes can’t avoid or predict.

 

[hey smepl this]

I have no experience with bears. But I would carry both bear spray and a gun. I mean, I carry a gun around town for two legged threats instead of mace, so I’d definitely carry a gun in the woods. Would a Glock 20 with full power 10mm be sufficient? I have one that’s quite comfortable to carry OWB. Otherwise a revolver in 44 magnum or 454 casull.

 

[JFrank]

I’d rather have my dog than not. They have much better hearing and sense of smell. Early warning and deterrent IME

 

[JFrank]

I have no experience with bears. But I would carry both bear spray and a gun. I mean, I carry a gun around town for two legged threats instead of mace, so I’d definitely carry a gun in the woods. Would a Glock 20 with full power 10mm be sufficient? I have one that’s quite comfortable to carry OWB. Otherwise a revolver in 44 magnum or 454 casull.

Some days yes and some days no, an angry charging bear can take six rounds and still kill you before it dies. Some days a single shot from a 30-30 will get it done. Best to see them before they see you…,

 

[shafter]

Unless the dog is big enough to finish the fight they start they can sometimes be more trouble than it's worth with wildlife.

We'll never know if the couple discharged the spray properly and if the bear didn't care. We'll also never know that had they possessed a firearm if they would have used it effectively either.

 

[Alex Clayton]

Bears have been killing humans from time began. Anymore it is rare. Which leads to a lot of the bad interactions. People often go all their time in the woods and never even see one. As for handguns on the Brown varieties almost none of them are ideal but anything beats nothing. If I was to go packing in the area I would want a long gun too. Shotgun is great, short rifle is great. MANY will not carry and go their life and never regret it. Does not mean I would. Bit ago a guy was killed in AZ by a Black Bear. This too is very rare but I know the area he was killed in. I would not have been there without a gun. He did not have one and he is dead. Most who lived around him were shocked but, he is still dead.

 

[jmr40]

Based on what I've read I believe bear spray may be the best choice for MOST people. MOST bear encounters are in areas where there are lots of people and the bear get accustomed to them. MOST bear encounters are either curious bear that get too close or a bear that has learned that humans are easy to steal food from. MOST of these bear are small, young bear that have just left their mother. MOST bear are not trying to attack or kill humans; just steal the food they carry.

In those situations, I think bear spray will deter a bear and teach them that it is best to avoid humans. Plus, MOST humans couldn't effectively use a firearm to stop an attack anyway. Or they would panic and start shooting when there is really no need. But in remote areas and with larger more aggressive bear I'd certainly put more trust in a firearm than bear spray.

FWIW, I have always carried a firearm in bear country. I'm a fan of a 10mm pistol loaded with heavy hardcast loads from companies such as DoubleTap or Buffalo Bore. They are a lot lighter and more compact than a magnum revolver and I like being able to mount a light on it when camping which is almost impossible with a revolver. Of course, a long gun is better, but not usually practical. At least not anywhere I hike/camp.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Lot of good responses here. Regarding dogs in bear country. There seems to be a belief...urban myth? that dogs will bring a bear to you. I have seen one video of dog running full speed to it's human with a large brown bear in hot pursuit. The guy shot it with a 45-70 and it still ran for a while after the dog. (Makes my 44 magnum seem a bit puny.)

Regarding dogs as bear protection/early alert. I'm a believer. My yellow lab was god at it. He could jst sense them, and you could just tell. He'd get down with his stomach low to the ground and the ruff along his spie would stand up stiff. His head would be on a swivel-constantly moving. Fish and game put a young brown ber down about 50 feet from my front door once. For almost a week or so, everytime we walked the dog past the large blood stain on the road, he would do that same thing.

As for what gun to carry. smh That debate is a bad as the 9mm vs 45 debate. Traditionally, Alaskans carried some tye of revolver. Usually either a 44 mag or a 454 Casull. But, in the last 5 years or so, 10mm in either theGlock or the Springfield Armory has gained in popularity. My preference is for the revolver because, if the bear is on top of you, putting weight down on the muzzle of the gun while you're trying to fire, it will push the autoloader out of battery and it won't fire. Additionally, I don't like 10mm because most 10mm is just 40S&W +P unless you load your own. Buffalo Bore and, my preference is the HSM Bear round for my 44 mag may be an exception. (I load my own bear defense rounds.)

As for long guns, many MANY hunters up here say carry enough gun, not for what you're hunting, but for what may be hunting you. 338 win mag is extremely popular for that reason. Another go to long gun for bears is an 18-20"barrel 12 ga with slugs, preferably 3 inches. Everything is a trade off. Backpack/non motorized hunters might just carry a larger rifle and no pistol to save weight. Hunting from a side by side or boat/canoe gives you some more options. (Althogh, not many. Especially hunting from a raft or canoe; you really have to pack light.) Same is true for fly-in hunts. Most hunters are weighing every item, and a second long gun or a heavy hand gun is often too much weight. Especially if you want to carry a 22 pistol for grouse/ptarmigan.

 

[drobs]

I read on another forum that firearms are forbidden (illegal) in Canadian national parks to include Banff.

Bulletins

parks.canada.ca

Banff National Park​

RESTRICTED ACTIVITY: Firearms prohibited ​

Issued: June 05, 2018​

Pursuant to Section 16(1) of the National Parks Wildlife Regulations, the following activity is prohibited by order of the Superintendent:

WHAT: Possession of firearms at all times in all areas of Banff, Yoho and Kootenay national parks except at a person's primary premises or in a motor vehicle that is travelling on a highway. During transport, firearms must be unloaded and in a case or wrapped and tied securely in such a manner that no part of the firearm is exposed.

WHERE: Banff, Yoho and Kootenay national parks



My brother in-law is a big Musky fisherman, he's altogether done with Canada, and says you can find just as good fishing without leaving the USA.

While I will go fishing, I'm not addicted to it. For the most part it bores me. Not catching anything makes it even more boring. I did fish in Canada right after graduating HS, 30 years ago. I was amazed by the fishing - throw out a spoon and catch a Pike that puts up a fight. It was fun but I haven't been back since.

 

[DoubleMag]

So very sorry and looks like these folks did alot right.

I would suppose the ratio of continental US folks would prepare their routine, regular trips with less vigor. Examples;

This is a GOOD neighborhood. The good section of town.
Yes you are correct and I'm going to renew my security monitoring today.
No, we do not post all our activities on facebook OH L@@KIE where Ralph & Marna (neighbors) are going we'll be there in 2 weeks!

And the ticker...drum roll....we're just going down to the store.

 

[CDW4ME]

Try to avoid places where you can't carry, especially if the place has predators like bears, or potentially aggressive humans.

 

[Hartkopf]

The news report did not give a condition of the victims bodies, just mauled. Does coming up on hibernation season make some bear want to attack homes more? I wonder if the victims were mostly eaten by the bear that was behind schedule putting on fat.

 

[WisBorn]

Sad to read this. It sounds like they tried to take the proper precautions. I would think the dog or his food may have been part of reason for the bear attack.
If firearms are illegal in the park then the bear spray is the best choice.
I carry both spray and a firearm when hiking in bear country. If in an area that doesn't allow firearms, it would be just spray.

 

[bubbaturbo]

I have no experience or knowledge to draw on but I don't see how bear spray is useful if you are in your tent when you are attacked. Seems like both gun and spray are appropriate.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

There was a grizzly attack in Canda last week that killed a couple and their dog. It appears that they did everything right. Hung their food in a tree away from camp, etc. Reports are that park rangers found their tent smashed and their e-readers out, so it looks like they might have been attacked while in their tent. What grabbed my attention was the statement "One can of bear pray had been fully discharged, but htis bear was not to be determined."

Settled? Really? Given the comparison to guns to bear spray, I missed in the article how guns saved the day.

If I show you an instance where a gun didn't work, that will rule out guns as well?

So the can was depleted and people were killed with their dog. How was the bear spray deployed? From inside the tent where they were attacked? The family thinks they died in their tent. https://www.foxnews.com/world/banff...essage-received-canadian-couple-before-deaths

As you can see, I am having trouble with the concept of how this example has settled anything.

-------------------------

In regard to taking all the precautions, they did okay, but there is something you can't prepare for and that is the bears that don't behave normally. This was a very old and underweight bear with bad teeth. This is not the time of year for a bear to be underweight going into winter. At 25, it had already outlived many of its compatriots. Most die by 25. https://www.nwf.org/Educational-Resources/Wildlife-Guide/Mammals/Grizzly-Bear

While humans may follow rules about bears, dogs can't. The dog may have been the initiator of the unfortunate bear interaction or it may have exacerbated the situation. We'll never know, but I would not be surprised if more information concludes the dog was engaged with the bear and the humans couldn't drive the bear away. Bait for the bear in the first place or baiting the bear once it arrived.

RIGHT!
Dogs are a common issue in regard to bear trouble.

dogs and bears = trouble

Making right choices can keep dogs and people safe and bears wild. Making wrong choices can have serious consequences for all.

bearwise.org

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/article274658591.html

From bear expert Stephen Herrero, dogs actually may trigger bear attacks...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/dogs-may-trigger-black-bear-attacks-says-calgary-researcher-1.2665606