Bear Attack: Say a Prayer

[Keith]

Pile,

I can only tell you that every year we have knuckleheads shooting up the local bears and leaving them for us to deal with. Wounded bears are no fun when you have kids and a life to live after the knucklehead in question goes back to the suburbs in the lower 48 with his hairy-chested bear tale.

When we do get an actual mauling (and the animal is found and killed) it invariably has bullet wounds in it from one of these knuckleheads. Healthy bears rarely maul people. Shot up bears do frequently. Please don't shoot the bears unless you have a good reason to do so.


Keith

 

[PileDriver]

i wouldn't shoot a bear that didn't give me a reason. i'm not talking about one making a false charge from 40 yards out either.

nor would i wait until it was close enough to use pepper spray.

anyone who just shoots a bear and leaves it to wander should be in jail. this whole post was generated by a story about a bear that needed to be shot. my posts were reflective of that angle, not of hypothetical situations

 

[Wildalaska]

Is it that Alaskan bear maulings aren't considered news - to be expected?

I think its just ignorance of life outside their comfort zones.....plus it ruins the Bambi image of wildlife...when it happens in Colo they can pretend its an anomaly...the exception rather than the rule...

 

[Cosmoline]

The black bear scare me a lot more than the potential brownies. Any black bear that will peak into your tent or poke around your stuff has already decided that humans aren't a threat. These animals can smell humans a mile off. A lot of the brownies people encounter are either two or three year old goobers who are just figuring out what's what or sows--either of these can be avoided in most cases. Attacks by brownie boars are very rare and usually happen when people run into fresh kills. When they do attack with the intent to kill, nothing on this green earth will save you. An 800 lb. boar can slam a grown man down and snap his back--mauling isn't even necessary.

This is one reason I usually carry a .357 with 200 grain solids. At home 99% of the time, problems are going to be with black bears trying to get at the dog food. Likewise, on the trail all of my point-blank encounters have been with black bears looking for 7-11 discards. The only brown bears I've seen have been high tailing it at a distance. I know things are different on Kodiak, but on the other hand attacks by brownies are extremely rare even there.

 

[HBK]

I HIGHLY recommend the books by Gary Sheldon, Bear Attacks and the Truth About Bear Attacks. It debunks a lot of the myths about bear attacks. The guy is a class act too, responded to an e-mail message I sent him even. Knows his stuff.

 

[TallPine]

Oh, as for "playing dead" - grizzlies (almost) always attack for territorial reasons or to remove a threat to cubs. Playing dead is the right thing to do if it gets you down. Resistance is suicide because you are just proving that you are still a threat.

After a few seconds, you won't be "playing" dead anyway ....

 

[Keith]

Well, all of the sources say that attacks in North America are about half and half - half black bear and half brown(grizzly). But then you have to consider that browns are only about 1/100th as prevalent as blacks... In other words, an individual brown bear is about 100 times more likely to attack a human than a black bear.

And there is something else I've never quite been able to understand. If you look at black bear attacks, there seems to be a geographic component. Many areas with high population densities see few or no black bear attacks. Look at SE Alaska or the lower 48 - black bear attacks are extremely rare or even completely unknown in some areas.
Then look at mainland Alaska and NW Canada and you'll see that attacks are quite common. I don't understand that.
A friend of mine grew up down on PoW Island chasing black bears out of the garden with a stick. She thought no more of black bears than most people think of raccoons. She moved up to Willow (outside Anchorage) and quickly learned that if you advance on a black bear with a stick around there, you may get a surprise. Those bears are a lot more aggressive than the ones she grew up with in SE Alaska. She now keeps a 20 gauge with skeet loads by the door and "dusts" any bear nosing around the place - no more chasing them off with a stick.



Keith

 

[PileDriver]

She now keeps a 20 gauge with skeet loads by the door and "dusts" any bear nosing around the place - no more chasing them off with a stick.

I can only tell you that every year we have knuckleheads shooting up the local bears and leaving them for us to deal with. Wounded bears are no fun when you have kids and a life to live after the knucklehead in question goes back to the suburbs in the lower 48 with his hairy-chested bear tale.

is this one of the knuckleheads you were referring to?

 

[Keith]

Skeet loads don't even penetrate through a bears skin. They just sting like hell at any range beyond 15 yards or so and any pellets are scratched out after a few days. The idea is to shoot them in the butt so they associate peoples property with a painful experience. Fish & Game use rubber/plastic bullets and pepper sprays for the same purpose.

You seem rather unfamiliar with firearms, but if you peruse the boards you'll quickly pick up the difference between shotguns and rifles, skeet loads and bullets, etc. It may seem complicated at first, but different firearms and loads can be used for different purposes.

Welcome to the world of firearms!

Keith

 

[spacemanspiff]

pssshaaaww! the ONLY way to protect yourself from a bear is to have a walther p22 in each hand john woo style and aim for the eyes. that .22lr will bounce around the inside of his skull and rip that brain to shreds.
me, i got my p-22 slides chromed, and i put a surefire and laser on each rail, with a red-dot scope mounted on top. and if my arms are really tired i have a detachable shoulder stock. they are attached with lanyards to my belt in case i have to drop them quickly to put my keys in between my fingers so i can scratch the bear if it gets too close, and in the worst case scenario, i have a super=soaker filled with a mixture of tabasco/cayenne pepper.


theres a LOT of armchair quarterbacking going on here. the advice that really matters comes from those that have actually had face-to-face experiences with bears. keith, cosmoline, wildalaska, have any of you had to discharge your weapon against a bear? yet the three of you put together have probably had more bear encounters than the rest of us THRers.

 

[PileDriver]

You seem rather unfamiliar with firearms, but if you peruse the boards you'll quickly pick up the difference between shotguns and rifles, skeet loads and bullets, etc. It may seem complicated at first, but different firearms and loads can be used for different purposes.

LOL now that is funny!

 

[Keith]

It wasn't meant to be funny. You really can learn a lot about firearms and I encourage you to do so.

Keith

 

[Cosmoline]

Thankfully I've never had to shoot, but the close encounters I have had with "little" blackies in the woods have left me wondering if I would have much chance to. They move extremely fast even in thick brush, and from a backpack scabbard I've only been able to get a rifle out and aimed by the time they've passed me and on their way. There's no easy answer. I'm currently using a weird-looking system where I keep my rifle across my front with the barrel down and a quick-release on the strap. I haven't had any close encounters this year so I don't know how it will work in practice.

On my lot in Willow I've been relying more on the noise of my chainsaw and a .357. Not much chance of carrying a rifle when you're felling timber and building a cabin! If push came to shove, I might be able to drop a tree on the bear or throw a log at it LOL

Bottom line--if what you use isn't on you and ready, there's little chance you'd be able to use it in an actual attack. So be very comfortable with what you carry. That's pretty much the general rule for carrying firearms, though, I suppose.

 

[TallPine]

On my lot in Willow I've been relying more on the noise of my chainsaw and a .357. Not much chance of carrying a rifle when you're felling timber and building a cabin! If push came to shove, I might be able to drop a tree on the bear or throw a log at it LOL

I always thought a running chainsaw, especially one with a 30" bar like mine, would make a fearsome weapon against man or beast in close quarters combat.

Just hope you don't run out of gas at the critical moment ....

 

[PileDriver]

It wasn't meant to be funny. You really can learn a lot about firearms and I encourage you to do so.

what's funny is you assume you know the extent of my gun knowledge. you're the one who referred to "knuckleheads" shooting bears.

the thread topic is what i was responding to. during which, i ask you for documentation on your stats that you posted. you never responded except to say i didn't know much about firearms.

in my opinion, any knucklehead who shoots a bear in the ??? is lucky to be alive.

i wonder what happens to the next unfortunate who crosses paths with this anally rectified bear?

judging a total stranger's qualifications when dodging questions about the facts you espouse doesn't lead to intelligent conversation

 

[spacemanspiff]

piledriver, its obvious the posters in this thread have gone to great lengths to be polite and courteous in answer to your criticism and armchair quarterbacking on behalf of the fisher who was mauled.

heres a sample of some of your words throughout this thread that would lead some to believe that you have had no experience with a firearm, nor with large predators:

the idea here would be to shoot the damn thing way before he got close enough to maul you.
you also don't wait to fire on one that's charging.
it's pretty obvious that the bear in question should have been shot.
i wouldn't shoot a bear that didn't give me a reason. i'm not talking about one making a false charge from 40 yards out either.
nor would i wait until it was close enough to use pepper spray.

this is NOT a urinating contest. it is very arrogant for a person to pipe in with 'shoulda, coulda, woulda's'. the fact of the matter is that a fisher was caught off guard. please dont turn this into a "if it happened to ME i would have killed that bear before the bear knew i was even there", that seems to be the direction you are trying to take this thread.

 

[HBK]

All you Alaskans, have you ever had any experience with predatory black bears? I read that the black bears in British Columbia are more likely to hunt humans for food. Do you know if this is true? Also, I've read that Brown Bears will associate the sound of a rifle shot with food. For example, you ar hunting, you kill something, the bear hears the shot and comes to claim the kill. Can y'all verify any of this behavior?

 

[PileDriver]

it's just as arrogant to assume someone knows my qualifications. i've done many stints at front site as an instructor as well as a student, have hunted all over the world for all kinds of game. i was merely posting my opinion on how i would have and have handled a situation such as this.

if that's a problem up there in alaska so be it

 

[Keith]

>>>>in my opinion, any knucklehead who shoots a bear in the ??? is lucky to be alive<<<<

Negative reinforcement - shooting a bear in the ??? with light shot or rubber bullets - is the standard tactic employed by biologists and game managers to keep bears away from human habitations. The bear simply learns to associate humans with bad juju and stays away. That's good for the bear and even better for the people who have to live near the bear. My friend uses the same tactic when she finds bears in her yard, and it's a better method than her former practice of chasing them off with a stick. What else is she going to do; call 911? Or kill every bear that enters her property?

You could probably teach me a few things about combat shooting, and maybe if you'd get off your high horse you could learn a few things about the subject being dealt with in this thread. Going to gunsite or paying someone to guide you to game animals doesn't give you any insight into animal behavior or management. Your 9mm wouldn't be worth much out on the Ayakulik, but your opinions on bears would be worth even less...

Keith

 

[Browns Fan]

Let's see now, how can I say this delicately? I think some of you guys have a bad case of bunnyhuggeritis. Any animal, no matter how cute and cuddly they look on the Animal Planet or Jungle Book, you have to understand that some of them look at us as though we were a Scooby snack. They must be dealt with accordingly.


How's that for delicate handling of this issue? (flame suit on)

 

[Browns Fan]

Let's see now, how can I say this delicately? I think some of you guys have a bad case of bunnyhuggeritis. Any animal, no matter how cute and cuddly they look on the Animal Planet or Jungle Book, you have to understand that some of them look at us as though we were a Scooby snack. They must be dealt with accordingly.


How's that for delicate handling of this issue? (flame suit on)

 

[Cosmoline]

Forget the chainsaw! I picked up one of these Gränsfors Bruks felling axes, mostly for supplemental work on the trees. The darn thing gives the Husky a run for its money! They make battle axes, and if they're anything like the felling axe I'd hate to have a run-in with one! I'll prob. post over on the alternative combat section with this.

Browns fan: Yes, big predators do size people up and make choices about whether are food or a threat. So what? I don't know what you mean by your post but if you are suggesting that this is a reason to exterminate them, I have to disagree. They were here first, and if you want to see what sort of evil grows without them, look no further than states where the great predators have been all but eliminated. California, for example. Better yet, look at the UK! They killed off all their big predators, and now look at them! Spineless sheeple. It sounds odd, but predators are good role models for people. And where ever you find big predators, you WON'T find lilly-livered anal-retentive pigdogs and their manicured lawns and zoning and rules about how high your grass has to be. But I digress.

Simply put, the best way to create a nation of PETA members is to destroy the wildlife.

 

[PileDriver]

You could probably teach me a few things about combat shooting, and maybe if you'd get off your high horse you could learn a few things about the subject being dealt with in this thread. Going to gunsite or paying someone to guide you to game animals doesn't give you any insight into animal behavior or management. Your 9mm wouldn't be worth much out on the Ayakulik, but your opinions on bears would be worth even less...

ahh...more assumptions. i have plenty of insight into animal behavior. when are you going to answer me about your percentages you mentioned as an expert?? or are you the typical expert who throws out numbers and percentages and gets irritated when questioned as to their validity?


enlighten us knuckleheads

 

[Wildalaska]

enlighten us knuckleheads

My experience with bears has been to see their back ends hauling ??? away (or in a different direction) from me thank god! On two of those occasions I had a 338 rifle, that in and of itself was barely enough to ensure that I would only have sphincter pucker instead of sphincter leak! On the third occasion I had a wolf hybrid on a leash, a 32, and enough smarts to back right down the hill and away from a confrontation.

But I can assure you that I have the opportunity to talk to EXPERIENCED Alaskans every day, and I am sure they would look at some of your comments askance.

I suggest you take what Keith says to you very seriously as I would consider him extremely knowledgable about bear behavior and attacks. Extremely.

As for me I fluctuate every day as to my bear gun, there are so many variables. At the minimum, I have a high capacity 9mm with Hiterburger penetrators...not for any hopes that I can kill a griz, but more for black bear protection and as a noisemaker. Mostly I carry a 44 mag with the front sight filed off...ya wanna know why??

WildlistentokeithAlaska

 

[Keith]

I'm unaware of using any percentages except numbers like "99%" as a rhetorical device meaning "vast majority of the time". Nobody collects data on bear maulings and a person would be a fool to rely on data to protect themselves in any case.
I can only tell you that the "vast majority of the time", unless you have a very large rifle and are very good with it, you should probably withhold fire on a brown bear you've encountered. In almost every case they head the other direction, or make a little display before backing down. If you do shoot, you'd better be damned sure you kill it dead because if you don't, you have probably just set yourself (or someone else) up to be mauled.

We don't know what set up the mauling above, but as the animal was running up and down the river enraged and upset, it was quite possibly shot and wounded by some nimrod shortly before it destroyed this young mans life.

We'll probably never know because the state of Alaska is not going to track the animal down and kill it, nor even attempt to do so. And this is food for thought; it's completely up to the people out in these remote areas to act responsibly and govern their own actions. All too often some nimrod shoots up a bear and it's up to the next person that encounters it to pay the price.

Keith