Because the World Totally needs another wildcat- .355/19R

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

My wife Linda loves the Taurus m905 she gave me for my birthday a few years ago, but recoil is jarring even with mild range loads and it bothers her dodgy wrist. So I figured, 'I reload now, right? I'll do something about it.'

I've never been thrilled with the rather flimsy star clips that come with the m905 so I figured I'd kill two birds with one stone. Not that I'm into gratuitously killing birds, mind you. So I made a simple jig to shorten .38 Special cases to 19mm and loaded them using a .38/.357 shell holder and 9mm dies. I used a 115gr.- .355" TMJ/RN bullet over 3.5gr. of Unique with a CCI 300 small pistol primer. Since 5.1gr. of Unique is a mild range load in 9x19mm 3.5 ought to be a pussycat. (My first attempt I actually tried this with .358" 148gr. HBWCs, but the chambers on this gun are tight- it required a proper .355" bullet.)

I only fired one test shot, and recoil was mild; comparable to .38 S&W; Linda's bad wrist should have no issues with this. There were no issues with the slightly shorter headspace, and fired from the 1-3/4" barrel of the m905 the bullet almost exited from two kiln-dried Douglas Fir 2x6s- slightly better penetration than my .38 S&W load. Since it's not intended to punch holes in anything but paper targets that will be more than adequate.

With everything looking good I loaded another fifty rounds. I'll test it on the next range trip. I don't anticipate any issues; the only thing that might be a problem is the headspace. It's possible a primer could back out and jam against the breech face. It didn't happen on the test shot but that doesn't mean it won't. If it is a problem then oh well; I can always shoot them out of a .38 Special.

As for the name- .355/19R- I had to call it something, right? It's descriptive- a .355" bullet, 19mm long case, rimmed. Better than my first thought, which was 9mm AUW (Another Useless Wildcat.)

If this works out well I may load some 115gr self-defense bullets to .38 Special standard-pressure velocity. Factory 9mm in the star clip in the cylinder, but keep the .355/19R reloads in a speed loader or speed strip; the clips are a bit flimsy and can shed rounds or even bend when carried in a pocket. So, use the first star clip to insure positive ejection and a more reliable system for reloads.

I don't have any delusions that this will 'catch on.' Ruger will not leap to chamber their next LCR in this, and I expect the overwhelming majority of the gun community to remain ignorant of it's existence. All this is intended to do is fill a very personal, singular need shared by few if any other shooters. If it fills that need it's served it's purpose.

 

[armoredman]

Nifty, kinda 38 SW version, then? With everyone wildcatting bigger/faster/stronger, that's a cool step in the other direction.

 

[Havok7416]

This is a great idea. Must have....

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

Nifty, kinda 38 SW version, then? With everyone wildcatting bigger/faster/stronger, that's a cool step in the other direction.

Pretty much. I could in fact fire these out of my .38 S&W, but I doubt it would work well; the TMC bullets will definitely not bump up to a .361 bore. My original intent was to simply put my standard .38 S&W load- a 148gr HBWC on top of 2.5 gr. of Unique- in a 9x19mm case.

 

[Havok7416]

There's no issues with the rims and the back of the cylinder?

 

[armoredman]

How close is this to the old 9mm Federal Rimmed? That enjoyed some popularity for about a week and half back in the 80s, IIRC. Not denigrating at all - I think the inventiveness here is awesome. Kinda like when a buddy discovered a cheap Suicide Special he had actually had a .34 caliber barrel and created a ".34 LAGS" cartridge to fit it.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

There's no issues with the rims and the back of the cylinder?

There doesn't seem to be; I'll know for sure after the next outing to the range.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

How close is this to the old 9mm Federal Rimmed? That enjoyed some popularity for about a week and half back in the 80s, IIRC. Not denigrating at all - I think the inventiveness here is awesome. Kinda like when a buddy discovered a cheap Suicide Special he had actually had a .34 caliber barrel and created a ".34 LAGS" cartridge to fit it.

9mm Federal Rimmed had a much thicker rim, which solver any potential issues with headspacing and thicker walls at the base to handle higher pressures than are usual for .38 Special.

 

[Havok7416]

Another concern I would have with this would be neck tension for the bullets. But, if it all goes well then this has some promise, particularly since I have a 9mm revolver myself.

 

[chicharrones]

Another very interesting development, MTP. I hope the range outing goes perfectly.

 

[entropy]

Dang, Michael, I did that 30 years ago with some of the GI brass I bought a lot of, when they'd split. I cut them down and loaded wadcutter loads. The lead just stuck out. Sort of a .38 Short Short Colt. I never thought to rename it in the European nomenclature!

Havok7416, I don't see why neck tension would be a problem; he's using 9mm dies for that, they should be sized down just fine for a taper crimp.

If you're worried about headspace, you could get some J-frame .38 Spl. moon clips; they are made for competition and self-defense use. Brownell's should have them if midway doesn't.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

I never thought to rename it in the European nomenclature!

I'm a writer- stuff has to have a name!

 

[entropy]

I'm a writer- stuff has to have a name!

And your other choice doesn't fit, for it's far from useless.

 

[Varminterror]

As long as guys have been cutting 45 Cowboy Specials, I always expected someone had been cutting 38 Uber Shorts too. Interesting twist you're using the .355's, but of course, it makes sense in your 9x19 revolver.

With as many Ruger LCR-9's being sold, you might have access to an interesting market - it has surprised me how much the 9mm Para revolver has gained popularity in recent years after so many years (decades?) of bobbing its head in and out of the water.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

With as many Ruger LCR-9's being sold, you might have access to an interesting market - it has surprised me how much the 9mm Para revolver has gained popularity in recent years after so many years (decades?) of bobbing its head in and out of the water.

Given 9mm.s popularity I guess it's only natural that would expand to the revolver market. Of course people are perfectly welcome to duplicate my efforts if they see a benefit in doing so; there's a somewhat more detailed description of my efforts here- https://tinkertalksguns.wordpress.com/2017/06/08/new-wildcat-35519r-this-will-change-uh-nothing/

 

[Cump]

The thought has crossed my mind for my 905. Thanks for giving it a go. As for the increasing popularity of 9mm in revolvers, it seems to be pretty efficient in snubs, judging from the chrono reports I've seen. It hits a sweet spot between 38 and 357 ...

 

[C0untZer0]

The LCR in 9mm has more recoil than I'd like, the Charter Arms PITBULL is fun to shoot, The Taurus 905 is only a few ounces heavier than the LCR and the barrel a few fractions of an inch longer. I wish Taurus would make a big batch of them... I don't like the prices.

 

[Jim NE]

I wish Linda had seen the neat old model 32 Terrier that I let pass by on gunbroker several days ago. A snubbie chambered in .38 S&W. I recently bought a model 33 in the same chambering and most factory loads are, indeed, exceptionally mild.

The gun went for only $305. I couldn't believe it.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

I wish Linda had seen the neat old model 32 Terrier that I let pass by on gunbroker several days ago. A snubbie chambered in .38 S&W. I recently bought a model 33 in the same chambering and most factory loads are, indeed, exceptionally mild.

The gun went for only $305. I couldn't believe it.

!!! An I-frame Terrier is a grail-gun for me, and at that price? Oh HELL yes.

 

[Jim NE]

!!! An I-frame Terrier is a grail-gun for me, and at that price? Oh HELL yes.

And I let it go...what was I thinking? I'd been buying so many guns lately...but that's no excuse.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

And I let it go...what was I thinking? I'd been buying so many guns lately...but that's no excuse.

I hear ya... Linda has now learned not to bid on items in the expectation that she will not get them. She will shortly be the proud owner of a Beretta M1951... right on the heels of buying me a Para Ordinance LDA .45 Carry for my birthday... Oops. At least she got a decent price.

 

[kBob]

Tinker,

You jarred another few brain cells with the comment about the Beretta 951.......so this one time at Band Camp.....

Years ago, when I was younger fitter and fired a lot more rounds down range in a week than I do in a quarter (heck the past year) now, the American Book Sellers Association held their annual Convention and show in Atlanta. I was strolling about with a group and some one saw Don Pendleton, Mack Bolan's "Dad". Someone thought I needed to be introduced to him and I had only read the first book or so and been under whellemed.....but wished I had written it and had such success. Well, the guy asked me what I thought of his character. Remembering a scene described where Bolan does a rolling dive in a street intersection while drawing his 951 Brigadier and then dropping four or five mafia goons in seconds I described the scene and I wound up with ".... and even I can't do that."

Pendleton laughed and commented "Even you?"

Then he noticed no one else was laughing and it got very quiet.

Shoot it got me a free signed book and somewhere I still have the dummy .308 round with a decal advertising the books on it.

Mean while, yes, you reinvented the Federal 9mm R.....and I like it. Still got to wonder about that headspace, but as you say the moon clips were pretty flimsy so maybe for this gun that thickness of rim might be fine. What is the rim thickness of a 9x19mm PLUS the Taurus moon clip? How does that compare with the 9x19 R Tinker Short Magnum's rim thickness?

-kBob

 

[kBob]

Just spent a few minutes with some books. My big concern now with your project is how undersized the case is forward of the rim compared to 9x19P. My concern is brass failure. You might get closer size wise down in the base and web area with .38 S&W and only have to trim .001 inch. I also may be an old woman with my fears. No offence to anyone, it's just a saying and I know some tough old birds.

It occurs to me that if the Taurus headspaces on the case mouth for every chamber as the chamber of a semi auto does that rim thickness may be a moot point.

My children are screaming in the back ground, "TO HARDEE'S FOR A CHICY-BIQUIE!" so gotta go.

-kBob

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

kbob- 9mm Federal's rim is about 1-1/3 times as thick. The case is a little undersized just ahead of the rim, but this seems to be well within the plastic limits of the brass, at least with he 3.5gr. load; the test-shot case has seems to have survived fine. I remember that multi-caliber revolver from years back that fired both 9mm and .38/.357 that seems to have worked out OK, so I'm pretty confident.

Hopefully I'll get to test fire this more extensively over the weekend. If it works out I may try a higher-pressure load, more in the standard-pressure .38 Special range, but the goal here is to drive a light bullet at a modest velocity for target shooting. If it does that I'll call it a success even if the higher pressure loads are a no-go.

 

[entropy]

I hear ya... Linda has now learned not to bid on items in the expectation that she will not get them. She will shortly be the proud owner of a Beretta M1951... right on the heels of buying me a Para Ordinance LDA .45 Carry for my birthday... Oops. At least she got a decent price.

The M1951 Brigadier is a fun gun to shoot. I like them better than the fat gripped M9.

My big concern now with your project is how undersized the case is forward of the rim compared to 9x19P. My concern is brass failure.

As long as he's not stuffing compressed loads of Blue Dot in them (like my hammer-cracking .357 loads back in the day) he should be fine, kBob. The web should hold for plinking loads.