Beginner question re economics of reloading

[brasscollector]

Save money reloading, ??
You're doing it wrong!

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Save money reloading, ??
You're doing it wrong!

What's wrong with you man!!!!
Are you trying to scare him off, or are you trying to let the wives, girl friends and significant others know our "secret"?

I've said it several times that we need a 12 step program

We can accept we're powerless over reloading, then use the rest of the meetings to reload ammo ;-)
Yea hunny we had a great meeting, no I'm not cured but I'm getting closer to getting this monster under control..
Btw what did you do to the RMR link?

 

[whatnickname]

Cost savings is a myth. Generally speaking you're going to save anywhere from a third to half of what factory ammo will cost. That said you will shoot more so cost is relative. Some of the pure crap that comes out of Eastern Europe with steel cases and corrosive primers is cheap if that's your only criteria but I wouldn't pick it up off the floor nor would I accept it even as a gift. With guns and ammunition you get what you pay for and "cheap" is frequently the road to significant problems. My ammo is 100% dead reliable because I take the time to make it so. I clean my brass before I resize it. I check the seating depth of my primers and bullets and every loaded round gets dropped into a chamber gauge. I don't consider reloading a chore. I enjoy it. I can tailor the bullet seating depth, powder charge and primers in my rifle ammunition to get the optimal accuracy out of my rifle. The last pronghorn I dropped dead in his tracks at 613 yards with a 270 Winchester went down from a round I loaded for that rifle and that specific application. I derive great satisfaction from what I do at the reloading bench. Cheap??? Maybe. But it's relative. I use the best components that money can buy. In the end the rifle ammo I make is probably more expensive than what's on sale at Walmart this weekend. Care to sit down at the bench and see how the Walmart special stacks up against my ammo? Just to make it interesting let's stretch the distance out to 500 yards or so. Tell me how much you like cheap then.

 

[X-Ring]

I have not been able to find any factory loaded ammunition regardless of price that shoots as well as my reloads. Although some of the good stuff will come close. So comparing the cost of my reloads to cheap factory ammo is irrelevant. Now if you compare the cost based on accuracy, and not the cheapest stuff you can find, you will find a significant difference.

 

[brewer12345]

Care to sit down at the bench and see how the Walmart special stacks up against my ammo? Just to make it interesting let's stretch the distance out to 500 yards or so. Tell me how much you like cheap then.

If fairness, I would bet that the number of shooters/hunters that ever shoot 500 yards or more is quite limited (5%? 1%?). For a lot of people, a 3 inch group at a hundred yards with a deer rifle is more than adequate. But this is also what is nice about reloading: you can optimize for whatever your application is. You want to be able to make extremely long range shots at big game. I doubt I would even be able to see the pronghorn at that range, so I certainly don't care about 600 yard shots. OTOH, I definitely care about making small groups at 50 yards with open sight lever rifles using ammo that is the lightest possible, subsonic and still gives good accuracy (hat trick 44 mag shots on rabbits that leave me lots of meat). We can each reload to meet our goals.

 

[LiveLife]

I've read a bunch--well, a few--pages that claim you can load 9mm for around $7/100 in consumables.

Hmmm, I posted I can reload 9mm for less than $7/50 in a bunch of threads ...

I assume that's not counting brass

Yes, since I reuse brass, I am not counting brass cost (I tell you, shooting 9mm carbines with brass catcher is great for capturing 100% of my spent brass)

when I look, it looks like 2¢ for a primer, around 3-5¢ for powder, and I don't see any bullets for less than 12¢. I can't make that come out to much less than $20/100 and I can buy range ammo for as low as $28/100.

Here's current actual cost of reloading 9mm with RMR 115 gr FMJ (using 5% THR discount):

Bullet - $75.05 / 1000 (I bought 4000 and price dropped to $72.67 shipped)
Primer - $19.99 / 1000 (I bought 10,000 S&B SP at Cabela's with $20 HazMat + $5 shipping)
Powder - $111 / 8 lbs (I actually paid $113 for 8 lbs of Promo but bought 2 containers so $28 HazMat and $28 shipping becomes half)

So using a reloading calculator, I got the following - http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

Bullet - $72.67 / 1000 (RMR 115 gr FMJ)
Primer - $225 / 10000 (S&B SP - BTW, they are back in stock at Cabela's)
Powder/Charge - $141 / 8 lbs (4.2 gr of Promo)

$5.29 / 50

Added bonus is that this "general purpose" lighter recoil target load is not only pleasant to shoot but more accurate than most cheaper "target" ammunition.

 

[entropy]

Re saving money and our time vs getting what we want.....

I've used a "Boxed Pancake Mix" vs "Making From Scratch" analogy.

Using a boxed mix is the easiest, most time-efficient way to get pancakes on the table. But the price you pay for that convenience is no control over what was put in the box at the factory. For the right personality and right circumstances boxed pancake mix is a perfectly fine way to get pancakes on the table. But, if you like to have the pancakes just the way you like them, and you don't mind taking the time...heck maybe you even ENJOY the process of taking the time to customize your pancakes....you can get EXACTLY what you want and use your second hobby (cooking....the other "hobby" being eating pancakes) as an added benefit way to get exactly what you want.

And now you've got me hungry for pancakes on this Sunday morning..... Very good analogy. You did leave out the part about you tend to eat more pancakes.....

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Reloading savings depends a lot on the discipline. Savings is huge in mid- to long- range high powered rifle, moderate in tactical rifle .223 type games, and slight in most handgun disciplines unless you cast your own, which is tricky due to risks of lead exposure from molten lead.

For me, the benefits of reloading are shared due to both cost savings AND improved quality and consistency of the ammunition, especially at times when there are ammo shortages. Chasing the cheapest ammo and getting a consistent product is tough. For the pistol games, our family has settled on the powder coated cast bullets at about $0.08 each, once shipping and taxes are included. Titegroup and cheap primers make it all go a long way, and there are decent inexpensive brass suppliers and enough folks leaving once fired brass on the ground at local action pistol and similar matches.

 

[Cannibul]

It can be done, but that's usually a figure reached by people who are getting free range pickup brass, casting their own bullets, can find primers locally for $20 per 1000 and can buy powder for $25 a pound. You may not be able to realize such prices where you live and in my experience $7/100 is a figure most people are going to realize.

If you have to pay sales tax on components that adds to the cost. If you have to mail-order bullets, shipping will increase your unit cost. If you have to mail order primers or powder and incur shipping and Haz-Mat fees those too add to the bottom line as will purchased brass if nobody is giving it to you.

In my case, the case runs 3 to 4 cents, the primer 3 to 4 cents, the powder ($32.50 per pound after adding in sales tax) comes in just under 2 cents a round and I buy jacketed bullets in bulk for less than 10 cents each, so my cost for 9mm comes in around $18/100. That doesn't include the $3+ for the plastic boxes I store the loaded rounds in, the cost of gasoline or wear and tear on my car driving around North Texas to pick up components, amortization of my reloading equipment or the value of my time.

When I started reloading in the 1970's, it was possible to save a considerable amount rolling-your-own, but as time marched on prices changed and my rationale for reloading shifted from economics to being able to control the process and create loads that were not commercially available, until it became a matter of pride that I only shot ammunition I had reloaded.

Cabela's has S&B primers right now for $20/k.

Academy has Titegroup for $20 and tax.

Brass is free if you want to pick it up.

I cast my own bullets.

There's not a lot of cost difference between 9mm, .38/.357, 10mm, .44 Mag or .45 ACP. I can produce working shootable rounds for any of them for under $0.10 each. If I just want plinking stuff it's closer to $0.06 each. I never figure in the cost of brass as you're much more likely to lose it than wear it out, my time is free and my reloading equipment has been paid for for years.

From your post I'd guess you're either an accountant or an engineer.

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

For 9mm, this is where I'm at:

RMR 115 FMJ = 75 bucks
S&B primers = $25/1000
CFE-P at $22/lb, which does 1250 rounds = 1.7 cents/round

So that's $117/1000.

 

[Danoobie]

Re saving money and our time vs getting what we want.....

I've used a "Boxed Pancake Mix" vs "Making From Scratch" analogy.

Using a boxed mix is the easiest, most time-efficient way to get pancakes on the table. But the price you pay for that convenience is no control over what was put in the box at the factory. For the right personality and right circumstances boxed pancake mix is a perfectly fine way to get pancakes on the table. But, if you like to have the pancakes just the way you like them, and you don't mind taking the time...heck maybe you even ENJOY the process of taking the time to customize your pancakes....you can get EXACTLY what you want and use your second hobby (cooking....the other "hobby" being eating pancakes) as an added benefit way to get exactly what you want.

I probably would not reload at all, if it were for the "savings". If you factor in the value of your personal time, there is almost no way you can try to compete with a major manufacturer grinding out minimum price ammo.Being able to tailor loads, specifically "colder", for a given rifle or pistol,pays off in increased accuracy, and tighter groups, at the range.

One other "cost" advantage, I recently loaded a box of 50 rounds, which shot better for me than a 40$ box of 20 premium rounds
made by a top brand. You are comparing your reloads to the WWB, or minimal cost "bargain" ammo. When done right, reloads can be
far superior to many types of manufactured ammo, even the higher end brands.

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

With the current ammo give-away's, you can buy 9mm for 19 cents/round, so at a minimum I'm saving 8 cents/round. The difference is quality and consistency, much better accuracy and I can play around with powder charges, mild to full power.

 

[TheDomFather]

I have actually reloaded a bit ... about forty years ago ... so please assume I know very little about anything. I principally shoot handguns, and have been trying to kind of standardize on 9mm since the more exotic calibers (to me) are much spendier. I occasionally shoot .45 ACP, .380, 10mm, and .44 Special. The last two I can rarely find for less than .60 a round and sometimes more like a dollar.

I've read a bunch--well, a few--pages that claim you can load 9mm for around $7/100 in consumables. I assume that's not counting brass, but when I look, it looks like 2¢ for a primer, around 3-5¢ for powder, and I don't see any bullets for less than 12¢. I can't make that come out to much less than $20/100 and I can buy range ammo for as low as $28/100. Also, I haven't been saving 9mm brass, though I can start.

Near as I can see, it's about the same cost for .44 Special (and I have brass--yeah) so I'd be getting a little savings on 9mm and more than $.40 per round on the less usual stuff. Is my addition just wrong? Maybe the $7/100 figure is ten years out of date, or maybe those guys are digging bullets out of their backstop? If it'll take me years to break even, I may need to come up with a different plan...

I read a bunch of posts on the group and they're fascinating, but didn't seem to address such simple questions. If there's some old posts I should read, please just direct me there.

I am loading 9mm for the following:
Bullseye 4.3gr = 1.4 cents at $24 per pound you can get 8lb jugs for less than $20 per pound do the math

Rainer 115gr HP from midway are 9-10 cents per round but I am sure you can find cheaper.

Brass you can get new for 10 cents per round with 9mm you can fire brass 10-12 times just don't load to the max pressure and don't over flare your cases just enough to get the base of the bullet in. So figure 1 cent per round and if it's a range pickup which is perfectly fine it's zero.

Using a cci small pistol primer is 2.7 cents per round however add the damn hazmat and it's closer to 3 cents so 14-15 cents per round is reasonable to expect. I don't think you will find new 9mm for that price and depending on your bullet choice you can maybe get it down another 1-2 cents per round.

45 I think will be a larger delta between new and reload and once you get to rifle the savings gets even better.

 

[wally]

RMR fmj-$75-1k
s&b primers-$19 on sale
brass-free
powder-$20-does about 2k rds.

I figure I'm about $7.75-$8 per 100 seeing how I can use the same powder for 2 different calibers. sure beats the $11-12 per 50rds.

Your math doesn't add up: 7.5 (bullet) + 1.9 (primer) + 1.0 (powder) = 10.4 cents per round or $10.40/100

I'm loading 9mm for 5-8 cents a only round becasue I bought most of my bullets circa 2005 when they were about half what they are now, along with most of my powder and primers, although I've recently had to buy more primers and powder to have enough to load all the bullets still in inventory, current prices, while improved from a year ago, still hurt. I did this in September, before the election when available improved and prices retreated a bit figuring it was better to pay a bit more then and have it, in case the old Hag won and we hit another Sandy Hook type panic where primers and powder were hard to find and ridiculously expensive when you did.

Back circa 2005 I stopped reloading as I could buy Wolf steel cased .45ACP ($120/1000) and CCI aluminum cased 9mm ($3.86/50) ammo for about what it would cost in components, but I started stockpiling components for retirement while shooting the cheap ammo! My "investments" in reloading components have been about the best performing part of my retirement portfolio

I'm currently seeing Wolf/Tula 9mm FMJ for $150-160/1000 which is ~$8/50 making it IMHO marginal to reload 9mm FMJ at present. I'm close to stop shooting my reloads in 9mm again except for the 147gr plated loads for the suppressors.

"Less popular" calibers like .45ACP and .380 have better savings, reloading .45 is still generally less than half the cost of factory ammo per shot.

We might be in a similar situation for the next few years so I'd continue to shoot the cheap ammo and start setting aside components for the next price rise or panic as finances permit, think of it as an investment or hedge

 

[Sunray]

"...about forty years ago..." Everything was less then. Starting with pay scales.
"...$7/100 in consumables..." Not a chance. Absolutely not, if you use jacketed bullets. Cabela's wants $12.99 per 100 for Winchester handgun bullets, on sale. However reloading isn't about saving money. It's about using the best possible ammo. And for the occasional shooter it very likely will not be good economically.
"...can buy range ammo for..." Range ammo is not tailored for your firearms.
"...alot is NOT a word..." Right. It's misspelt word. snicker.

 

[LoonWulf]

I've said it several times that we need a 12 step program

I cut that down to 6 steps

Deprime/resize
Prep
Primer
Powder
Bullet
Shoot

repeat....

 

[Hokie_PhD]

LoonWolf
You forgot Step 1 accepting we're powerless over reloading, you also forgot purchase components, hangout on forums, go to gun shows and gun stores so that's 10 and I'm sure there are two more we're both forgetting

 

[entropy]

Does that make Richard Lee a Higher Power?

I might have a problem with apologizing for my reloading and the resultant accurate and more frequent shooting.

 

[Axis II]

Your math doesn't add up: 7.5 (bullet) + 1.9 (primer) + 1.0 (powder) = 10.4 cents per round or $10.40/100

I'm loading 9mm for 5-8 cents a only round becasue I bought most of my bullets circa 2005 when they were about half what they are now, along with most of my powder and primers, although I've recently had to buy more primers and powder to have enough to load all the bullets still in inventory, current prices, while improved from a year ago, still hurt. I did this in September, before the election when available improved and prices retreated a bit figuring it was better to pay a bit more then and have it, in case the old Hag won and we hit another Sandy Hook type panic where primers and powder were hard to find and ridiculously expensive when you did.

Back circa 2005 I stopped reloading as I could buy Wolf steel cased .45ACP ($120/1000) and CCI aluminum cased 9mm ($3.86/50) ammo for about what it would cost in components, but I started stockpiling components for retirement while shooting the cheap ammo! My "investments" in reloading components have been about the best performing part of my retirement portfolio

I'm currently seeing Wolf/Tula 9mm FMJ for $150-160/1000 which is ~$8/50 making it IMHO marginal to reload 9mm FMJ at present. I'm close to stop shooting my reloads in 9mm again except for the 147gr plated loads for the suppressors.

"Less popular" calibers like .45ACP and .380 have better savings, reloading .45 is still generally less than half the cost of factory ammo per shot.

We might be in a similar situation for the next few years so I'd continue to shoot the cheap ammo and start setting aside components for the next price rise or panic as finances permit, think of it as an investment or hedge

That's why I said figure-guess.

I just figured it up and Your correct. Although I got my powder for $20 on sale so my price is a little cheaper. I also don't count the cost of the powder cause I use it for other calibers also. I guess I'm weird. I've shot win,rem, fed, etc out of my m&p and federal being the best with win being second my gun loves a 124gr bullet a lot better so even if I'm still at factory cost I can still shoot a better bullet for what I'd pay for 115gr and also I don't have $130 to drop at one time on 1k ammo so right now I'll buy a brick of primers only when on sale and the next month a lbs of powder at $22 and wait a few months and grab 1k RMR Fmj or extremes when on sale before I switched to RMR. On sale around me 9mm is still $10-11-50rds for steel and sometimes brass so the 10-11$ savings is worth 30min of my time to crank out 100rds

 

[mstreddy]

OP, while I don't think you'll get to $7/100 unless you cast, but you will get to $10-12/100 with bulk bullets, powder and primers.
I too stocked up on the S&B primers at the $20/1K price. Our group ordered around 40K of them. I also got some of the Promo when it was below $100/8 pounds, after Hazmat/shipping it came to around $13/pound. I bought 2 8# jugs and just recently picked up another when a buddy was placing a powder order. That way the shipping/hazmat was spread out.

And as many have mentioned, once you load the other calibers, you'll really start to realize the savings -- just think 45 ACP at around $14 per 100.

 

[LoonWulf]

LoonWolf
You forgot Step 1 accepting we're powerless over reloading, you also forgot purchase components, hangout on forums, go to gun shows and gun stores so that's 10 and I'm sure there are two more we're both forgetting

shhhhh my wife thinks theres only 6 steps related to my addiction...imagine how upset shed be if she knew how much time i spent online making imaginary shopping carts...
And I dont accept that i am powerless, i.. can... quit....any......mmmmm....uhhmm....i see an unsized shell on my bench ill be back.

 

[Thunderchicken]

From your post I'd guess you're either an accountant or an engineer.

That's a pretty good guess. Didn't know it showed so much.

I appreciate all the answers. I am going to read some more and then maybe take the plunge, starting with .44, which is always painful to purchase. I also take the consensus wisdom that I won't really save anything, I'll just shoot more. That's fine with me.

 

[cfullgraf]

I also take the consensus wisdom that I won't really save anything, I'll just shoot more.

No, you will save. What you do with the savings is up to you.

Some folks take their significant other out for a nice dinner. Some folks shoot more. And the list goes on.

 

[ColoradoShooter77]

With 44 magnum, you can easily save 30 cents/round

 

[ray15]

You'll definitely save more on .44 special and 10mm. But as others have posted there are good savings to be had on 9mm as well.

My favorite recipe looks like:
124gr. Everglades concave-base FMJ - 7 cents
5.3 gr. of CFE-Pistol - 1.8 cents
CCI 500 primer - 2.7 cents

So 11.5 cents/round for my favorite load rather than 20 cents/per for decent factory ammo. You'll save more on your other calibers but even 9mm makes sense to reload if you purchase the components in bulk.