JohnBT
Member
"The Golden Age...occurred from about 1920 through 1950"
Just before my time. I was born in 1950.
John
Just before my time. I was born in 1950.
John
Belly Guns
- Thread starter GeneC
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Golen age? Sure , you had the 'Roaring 20's' but then the great depression was from '29-'41, then WWII , with blackouts and rationing
from '41-'45, then boom from '46-'51, the ya had Korea and the start of the Cold War. My Dad said '53-'59 was pretty 'golden' ( I's born in '59); Then Viet Nam , the 60's, JFK & RFK assasination, civil rights, etc. I guess golden is in the eye of the beholder, eh?
from '41-'45, then boom from '46-'51, the ya had Korea and the start of the Cold War. My Dad said '53-'59 was pretty 'golden' ( I's born in '59); Then Viet Nam , the 60's, JFK & RFK assasination, civil rights, etc. I guess golden is in the eye of the beholder, eh?
>> The Golden Age of modern belly guns, built on Colt or S&W hand ejectors, occurred from about 1920 through 1950. <<
Ya' sort of took my "golden age" comment out of context. I was trying to explain the "best of times" for belly guns built on Colt (mostly) and S&W hand ejector revolvers.
These were the years that men such as Ed McGivern, Charles Askins, J. H. FitzGerald, Rex Applegate and others were "the" recognized authorities and their advocacy of “instinctive shooting†created a natural environment for the belly gun/revolver. Many people know that Col. Applegate owned one of the New Service/Fitz Specials, and carried it for a time while on temporary duty guarding President Franklin Roosevelt. Fewer are aware that Clyde Barrow, of Bonnie & Clyde fame had a similar gun built on a Colt .38 Police Positive. Paul Weston, who for years taught firearms tactics, including hip shooting to generations of NYC police officers, had a later day “Fitz†built on a Colt Cobra. Charles Lindberg, the famous aviator obtained a Fitz/Detective Special shortly after his first son was kidnapped and murdered in New Jersey. Thereafter he sometimes carried it in a pocket or shoulder holster.
Of course it should not be forgotten that the basic concept seems to have been developed during the second half of the 19th century in the vast country west of, and including the Mississippi river. There it was often a weapon of last resort for gamblers and gunmen. But as Charles Askins told me one day, “you wouldn’t likely find one at a target range …â€
Ya' sort of took my "golden age" comment out of context. I was trying to explain the "best of times" for belly guns built on Colt (mostly) and S&W hand ejector revolvers.
These were the years that men such as Ed McGivern, Charles Askins, J. H. FitzGerald, Rex Applegate and others were "the" recognized authorities and their advocacy of “instinctive shooting†created a natural environment for the belly gun/revolver. Many people know that Col. Applegate owned one of the New Service/Fitz Specials, and carried it for a time while on temporary duty guarding President Franklin Roosevelt. Fewer are aware that Clyde Barrow, of Bonnie & Clyde fame had a similar gun built on a Colt .38 Police Positive. Paul Weston, who for years taught firearms tactics, including hip shooting to generations of NYC police officers, had a later day “Fitz†built on a Colt Cobra. Charles Lindberg, the famous aviator obtained a Fitz/Detective Special shortly after his first son was kidnapped and murdered in New Jersey. Thereafter he sometimes carried it in a pocket or shoulder holster.
Of course it should not be forgotten that the basic concept seems to have been developed during the second half of the 19th century in the vast country west of, and including the Mississippi river. There it was often a weapon of last resort for gamblers and gunmen. But as Charles Askins told me one day, “you wouldn’t likely find one at a target range …â€
That could be said about both of the time periods I mentioned. The attitude and perspective of these particular gunmen was summed up in this quote from Bill Jordan:
“Besides a necessity of practicing to hit at long ranges, skill at quick shooting (including drawing the gun from its carrying position in a holster at medium to very close ranges under conditions of surprise and poor light) is very important – a mater of life or death at times.â€
“FBI statistics concerning shooting affrays between officers and criminals have been gathered through the years. They show that an inordinate number of these social events occur at “very close†ranges. How close? Powder burning close, a situation where speed and accuracy are of essence. Speed in making up the mind to shoot; speed in drawing the gun; and speed in scoring a hit by merely pointing the gun without use of sights.â€
Perhaps Bill was old fashioned, but he was quicker then lightning and he hit what he shot at. He also grinned once and said, “…and the brass won’t hit me in the faceâ€
“Besides a necessity of practicing to hit at long ranges, skill at quick shooting (including drawing the gun from its carrying position in a holster at medium to very close ranges under conditions of surprise and poor light) is very important – a mater of life or death at times.â€
“FBI statistics concerning shooting affrays between officers and criminals have been gathered through the years. They show that an inordinate number of these social events occur at “very close†ranges. How close? Powder burning close, a situation where speed and accuracy are of essence. Speed in making up the mind to shoot; speed in drawing the gun; and speed in scoring a hit by merely pointing the gun without use of sights.â€
Perhaps Bill was old fashioned, but he was quicker then lightning and he hit what he shot at. He also grinned once and said, “…and the brass won’t hit me in the faceâ€
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Bill Jordan
I watched BIll Jordan do an exhibition when I was about 16 years old.
Imagine if you will...a mountain-sized cowboy snap-shooting aspirin
tablets off a table from the hip at a range of about 12-15 feet with a
double-action revolver. The shot started from the leather on a signal, and
the shot came so fast, that if you blinked at the right instant, you wouldn't see him move.
Then he balanced a small rubber ball on the back of his gun hand...drew the revolver and hit the ball in the air with the muzzle...
THAT...was impressive.
Go for yer gun...indeed!
Cheers!
Tuner
I watched BIll Jordan do an exhibition when I was about 16 years old.
Imagine if you will...a mountain-sized cowboy snap-shooting aspirin
tablets off a table from the hip at a range of about 12-15 feet with a
double-action revolver. The shot started from the leather on a signal, and
the shot came so fast, that if you blinked at the right instant, you wouldn't see him move.
Then he balanced a small rubber ball on the back of his gun hand...drew the revolver and hit the ball in the air with the muzzle...
THAT...was impressive.
Go for yer gun...indeed!
Cheers!
Tuner
They videotaped him one time, but had to slow down the replay so the viewers could see what he was doing. His clocked speed, including reaction time to bullet impact was 27/100th second!!! The target was at 10 feet, and of course he hit it.
One of my more interesting experiences was helping him blow up balloons for targets and stuffing them into an old mattress cover. Given that the cloth was rough the target's survival rate wasn't too great.
One of my more interesting experiences was helping him blow up balloons for targets and stuffing them into an old mattress cover. Given that the cloth was rough the target's survival rate wasn't too great.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
re: Bill Jordan
One of the things that really impressed me was the size of the man's hands when I shook hands with him. I've got fairly big hands...and his
mitt swallowed mine! I'm about 6'3" in tennis shoes, and I had to look
up at him. What...about 6'5 or 6'6? Way too big to be that quick!
If he'd have been with the Clantons and McLowrys at the OK Corral,
that outcome woulda been a lot different...
And how'bout that sign painter McGivern and his wheelguns? Seen
movies of that thing he did with a playin' card. WHEW!
Fuff...I gotta have you over for a bull session sometime. Ever get to NC, look me up!
Later on!
Tuner
One of the things that really impressed me was the size of the man's hands when I shook hands with him. I've got fairly big hands...and his
mitt swallowed mine! I'm about 6'3" in tennis shoes, and I had to look
up at him. What...about 6'5 or 6'6? Way too big to be that quick!
If he'd have been with the Clantons and McLowrys at the OK Corral,
that outcome woulda been a lot different...
And how'bout that sign painter McGivern and his wheelguns? Seen
movies of that thing he did with a playin' card. WHEW!
Fuff...I gotta have you over for a bull session sometime. Ever get to NC, look me up!
Later on!
Tuner
I saw Bob Mundun(sp) cut a card in half after tossing it in the air just last week on American Shooter on OLN and saw Jerry Miculek shoot 10 revolvers in 10 seconds. Plus I have Jerry's video "The Ultimate Revolver" , where he shows Ed Mcgivern as well, but he also holds a piece of cardboard up in front of his pistol and shoots numerous head shots at 10 yds. He gets 6 shots in 1 sec and .17 reloads. I'd like to see Bill Jordan in action.
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