Belly Guns

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Years ago, I bought a Tex Shoemaker #19 IWB, for a long since departed 3" M24. This is a thumb-break suede rig, with a reinforced top and a single belt loop, on a swivel snap. One very slow day, I tried the holster on several of the guns in the safe. Except for the thumb break, it was a perfect fit for my 4516. I removed the outside strap of the thumb break, restitched the top, and left the back of the thumb break (minus snap and spring) as a body shield. The combination makes for a very good "belly rig", and, as stated, it is flat, concealable, comfortable, and as fast as a revolver from that position.
 
>> Why wouldn't a big bore auropistol make an effective belly gun? <<

One could or would. But at the time belly gun (revolvers) were popular no one was making sub-compact big bore autoloaders. Col. Askins did do a number on an early S&W model 39 though. I think the big problem with sub-compact, large caliber automatics might be reliability, especially on those made on the 1911 pattern. The issue isn't so much the gun as it is quality control on the part of the maker. In my view the smallest Glocks are too fat for this sort of thing. (And boy, I would never cut away the trigger guard on a Glock!!!!) The new Detonics USA might prove to be very interesting - if it's reliable.

Last but not least, the double-action/hand-ejector revolver is the most economical platform to work with. Still .... money isn't everything.
 
Almost

Ya got close Fuff...I'll go ahead and give it up.

It's reliability...and not reliability due to substandard manufacturing...It's
because in the often frantic, hand-to-hand, blue-whistle, down in the
mud and the blood and the beer fight, often typical of a personal attack...the reciprocating slide of the autopistol can get hung up in clothing...or it might be short-stroked because of hitting
something...or the empty case doesn't get clear of the port and brings the cycle to a screeching halt ...or even if the muzzle is pressed against the attacker's belly, the slide moves and disconnects the trigger from the sear. The revolver won't do that...AND...a revolver can be fired from inside a coat pocket in a pinch. Try that with a self-shucker, and one shot is likely all ya get.

Cheers all!

Tuner
 
I think most of the points Tuner just made about automatics vs. revolvers are self-evident. One thing though. Shooting the revolver through a pocket requires a shrouded or enclosed hammer, not just one that’s been bobbed. Why? Because the falling hammer can snag on a piece of cloth if it isn’t shielded in some way. Bobbing the hammer only insures that the spur won’t catch during the draw.

Incidentally, back during the 1930’s Smith & Wesson made a point about being able to shoot their 1887 “Safety Hammerless†revolver through a pocket while the new Colt 1903 and 1908 automatics wouldn’t work in this mode. Colt sold a lot of pistols anyway.
 
According to Fuff

He say:

One thing though. Shooting the revolver through a pocket requires a shrouded or enclosed hammer, not just one that’s been bobbed. Why? Because the falling hammer can snag on a piece of cloth if it isn’t shielded in some way. Bobbing the hammer only insures that the spur won’t catch during the draw.

Ah...ya got me there, Fuff! True...true.

A drawback to carryin' a wheelgun in a pocket...Dust, lint, grit toothpicks,
pennies and dimes, chewing gum wrappers, and various insundry crap
that finds its way into pockets also manages to find its way into the works.
Could tie things up and turn it into an inefficient bludgeon.

Pros and cons...pros and cons...Makes a body just wanna stay home nights.:p

Cheers all!

Tuner
 
True, but after market shrouds can be had(note to self, get a shroud) to fix that one drawback. Other than that, just keep all the other crap out of the pocket you're packin heat in. Myself, I like the iwb @ 1:00.
 
I've seen a 6" Ruger Security Six put out of service from a close contact shot. A subject shot his girlfriend in the head from behind her left ear. There was so much brain and bone blown back into the front of the cylinder of the Ruger that it locked it up and it wouldn't fire a second round.
 
Wow, that's terrible , but my question is , did he really need a second shot? I'm pretty sure a COM shot thru clothes wouldn't do that, but like Tuner said,"We lays down our bets and we takes our chances!"

Gene
P-40
Semper Paratus
 
The only after-market hammer shroud that I’m aware of fit’s some Colt “D†frame revolvers, in particular the Detective Special, Police Positive Special, Cobra and Agent. There is also a Pachmayr/Bianchi grip for S&W “K†frame round butts that does the same.

Today, those who opt to carry a revolver in a side pants pocket rarely want anything larger then a S&W “J†frame or Taurus equivalent. These can be purchased with both shrouded and enclosed hammers, and frequently are.

Larger snubbies are more often carried in belt or shoulder holsters, where shooting through a pocket is a moot point. Having the hammer spur snag on clothing during a draw from deep concealment is another matter. It’s all a matter of modifying the gun to match a particular user’s needs.
 
I didn't realize we'd drifted off the original subject that far. Perhaps Ed can post something that will bring us back "on subject."
 
A drawback to carryin' a wheelgun in a pocket...Dust, lint, grit toothpicks,
pennies and dimes, chewing gum wrappers, and various insundry crap
that finds its way into pockets also manages to find its way into the works.
Could tie things up and turn it into an inefficient bludgeon.
Click to expand...

1) Pocket holster.
2) Centennial design has one fewer opening to collect cack.
3) Keep nothing in gun pocket but gun.

:)
 
They're talking about not only carrying the pistol in the pocket, but shooting from the pocket , too. The pocket holster negates that.


Old Fuff, I went to Pachmayr's web and couldn't find the Bianchi shroud grip for the K frame, do you have a link?
 
GeneC:

As I understand it, Pachmayr made this particular grip exclusively for Bianchi International some years ago. In more recent times Bianchi dropped it. However they are, or were available from the following link.

http://www.cdnninvestments.com/

Edited to add: Sorry, I just checked and they no longer list these grips. Another possibility might be:

www.ajaxgrips.com
 
The pocket holster negates that.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. An el-cheapo Uncle Mike's will allow you to half-withdraw the gun and cap one off, while still keeping the gun more-or-less oriented in the pocket and keeping dust bunnies out of the workings.
 
I flunked out on finding the Pachmayr/Bianchi grips. Ajax doesn't seem to have them either. They were available up to a few months ago and some may still be around. They were sort of a neat idea as the hammer shroud was built into the grip rather then attached to the frame.
 
Tamara, LOL, I have one of those Uncle Mikes that I sometimes carry my Kel-tec p-11 in.

Old Fuff, that's too bad, as I'd sure like to get a pair. Oh well, if ya happen to run across 'em again. Meanwhile, I emailed Waller&son and asked why they don't make shrouds for all snubbies.
 
"'cause a where ya carried it, but where ya stuck it when ya shot the feller"

I didn't know that. (obviously)

I don't believe I've ever seen one of the modified big bore revolvers being discussed here. Maybe I haven't been looking hard enough, but I rarely miss a gun show.

John

P.S. - So a pocket gun is called that because you aim it at the guy's pocket?

;) :uhoh: :D
 
JohnBT, Me thinks ya might be thinkin' too much into this:D
Kiddin', for a good article and pics, check out the Aug 2003 edition of "Combat Handguns". Btw, just 'cause ya don't see it at a gun show, does that mean it don't exist?
 
JohnBT:

Most of the guns we've been discussing were custom made in very small numbers. Consequently it would be no surprise if you haven't come across one. The Golden Age of modern belly guns, built on Colt or S&W hand ejectors, occurred from about 1920 through 1950. In recent years they’ve been rediscovered by collectors, but most of the ones I’ve seen at gun shows were very high priced, and the “conversion†was done long after the gun was made – like last week.
 
I didn't see his post as helpful, I found it kinda condescending myself. Plus, apparantly he doesn't know about S&W sights, as he'd know there's only one mounting hole and to suggest I'd leave the screw(s) sticking up,well, I think my response was nicer than his.
Click to expand...
Well Gene, if you took my response as condescending, you have my apologies. I thought the picture and link to C&S might be helpful. My 686 actually has 3 mounting holes through the topstrap, although you're right that the sight is affixed by only one screw (the other screw I was thinking of is the elevation screw on the sight itself).

I was not suggesting you'd leave the screw sticking up, I was inquiring. If you tightened it down all the way, does the tip go through the topstrap? Does it make contact with the forcing cone? Or the cylinder? Or did you leave the screw out?

And I already knew Cylinder & Slide called it a fixed sight (I posted the picture after all) :neener:
 
No problem, CB, lets drop it. My point was that two different parts are being called the same thing.
 
Notes

Ahhhh...GeneC and carpetbagger. Kudos gentlemen! Defusing a flame
war and takin' the high road.

This one danced around and went on and off topic...but even so, it
was an interesting and informative thread as it progressed.

Cheers all!

Tuner
 
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