Best 223 rifle but can also shoot 5.56 under $400?

[herrwalther]

Thompson center also makes a 5.56 bolt action.

https://www.nwarmory.com/product/tc...n5.56-nato-22-tb-51-synthetic-black-stk-blued

 

[jmr40]

Any bolt rifle that suits your fancy will have no issues shooting both 223 and 5.56. I had a Ruger Ranch, not because I was worried about shooting 5.56, but because I thought I wanted the shorter barrel. I also have a Predator stamped 223 that I shoot 5.56 in with no worries. The Predator proved to me MUCH more accurate and the Ranch rifle found a new home.

 

[IronsightJM]

Lots of replies considering buying a 223 and paying a Smith, would have to find a reliable one around here though last shop I went to I dropped off an old model 336 in 35 for cleaning and after about 4 weeks of being there I went to pick it up and they said they forgot to clean it. Also the Thompson center II looks good? Well under my price range, stamped for both and has a threaded barrel. Anyone know a little more about this rifle? As always thanks for the feedback

 

[BigBL87]

Lots of replies considering buying a 223 and paying a Smith, would have to find a reliable one around here though last shop I went to I dropped off an old model 336 in 35 for cleaning and after about 4 weeks of being there I went to pick it up and they said they forgot to clean it. Also the Thompson center II looks good? Well under my price range, stamped for both and has a threaded barrel. Anyone know a little more about this rifle? As always thanks for the feedback

Never owned one myself. However, the most common complaint I've read is the flimsy stock. That can be easily remedied down the road if it bothers you. Also read the bolt isn't the smoothest but haven't really read about actual malfunctions, just a sticky bolt on some. They do come with a 1MOA guarantee (with premium ammo, of course) unless that changed when they put out the II, which is a big plus.

When it comes down to it, it's a $300 rifle so it will have its rough edges but the general consensus seems to be they're good shooters.

 

[cdb1]

Shooting 5.56 ammo in a bolt rifle is highly over-rated. There are plenty of low cost 223 Rem loads,

This. I’ve heard forever that while it may be hotter, 5.56 NATO ammunition as a rule is less accurate than .223. If so I can’t see using 5.56 in a bolt action and in reality don’t use it in my AR either. I also don’t use my AR very much, if I did maybe I’d try 5.56.

 

[Mosin Bubba]

This. I’ve heard forever that while it may be hotter, 5.56 NATO ammunition as a rule is less accurate than .223. If so I can’t see using 5.56 in a bolt action and in reality don’t use it in my AR either. I also don’t use my AR very much, if I did maybe I’d try 5.56.

I kind of mentally assumed that OP had a stash of 5.56 ammo for an AR-15 that he was wanting to share with a bolt gun (hence referring to it as a "5.56 AR round"). If you were starting from scratch and had a choice to buy either 223 or 5.56 to feed your bolt action, the latter just doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[VoodooMountain]

I can't believe only 1 person mentioned the TC compass.

All these budget rifles are going to be about the same accuracy, reliability, weight, function. If you want a rifle to take to the range once in a while just pick the one you like best after handling a few.

Howa/weatherby, savage 10/11/hog hunter, ruger American, TC compass are generally the better overall options in the long run though.

Trust me. I have spent way too much time in my life looking at the minutia of different rifles. What you are really paying for is the tier of rifle, not the model per se.

Yes there are differences among the entry level bolt gun models but those differences mostly end up being a personal choice bc it's a feature.

The next tier above these budget rifles will offer you the ability to upgrade (savage 11/10 or rem 700) or bottom metal (ruger Hawkeye), open top receiver, or a better stock.

My first choice for a 'budget' gun is the savage 11. If you are patient you can find them for $300-$350.

It is mid tier level (open top, accutrigger ,better recoil lug, blind bottom if desired) and allows you the ability to upgrade almost every part down the road. The savagea also come in a few different flavors.

 

[Varminterror]

I can't believe only 1 person mentioned the TC compass.

I can.

 

[SlowFuse]

Is bolt action a requirement? Does your figure include an optic? If not opposed to an auto getting a budget ar-15 with flip ups or a cheap red dot is the obvious answer.

If the bolt is a requirement I would say there's been good suggestions here already, most are at your limit unless you find a good deal or go used. In this price range I like the Wby Vanguard/Howa 1500s but used may be a requirement there. I haven't priced them in quite some time. The Savages and Rugers are worth a look too. But for usable glass to go with it i'd have to suggest saving a couple more months to get something you like vs. Settling for something now.

 

[IronsightJM]

I can.

How is the compass? Hearing different stories about it.

 

[Varminterror]

How is the compass? Hearing different stories about it.

That’s part of the problem. They’re working rifles, but for a $400 budget, or a slight stretch of the decimal point above that, I think a guy can do better, consistently. Within $50, I’d pick up a Ruger American every time over a Compass or MVP. Not to say I’m a fan of the American, or any budget model really, but among them, there’s a pretty clear hierarchy.

 

[IronsightJM]

That’s part of the problem. They’re working rifles, but for a $400 budget, or a slight stretch of the decimal point above that, I think a guy can do better, consistently. Within $50, I’d pick up a Ruger American every time over a Compass or MVP. Not to say I’m a fan of the American, or any budget model really, but among them, there’s a pretty clear hierarchy.

Thank you for your suggestion! At the moment right now I’m more on the lookout for an American than the others. It’s really just a battle of what’s gonna go on sale because I’m stuck with all 3. I’ve heard great things about the American, good things about the MVP and semi okay things about the compass.

 

[Varminterror]

@Jacob McDermott - I do think you’re painting yourself into a corner with the 5.56 requirement. Think about it this way: a 223/5.56 barrel will generally last 3500-5000 rounds before it starts slipping velocity AND accuracy. Considering the cheapest rot-gut 5.56 surplus ammo out there, or really the cheapest 223 Rem commercial ammo, you can’t be terribly concerned with extreme precision, but let’s just work with those numbers. There’s no challenge in finding 223 ammo for about 34¢/rnd, wait for 10% sales which happen every month and you’re looking at 31¢/rnd. Wanna go REALLY cheap? Tula 223 can be had for 16-20¢/rnd, matching Wolf 5.56 ammo costs - so you have parity of pricing.... But... let’s pretend there’s a 5¢/rnd gap. Over 5,000 rounds that’s $250, and you’ll have spent $1250-1,550 along the way. So now you rebarrel, which means you can order any chamber you want, or you replace the rifle, since it’s not so expensive... or, just keep shooting it - and at that point, the throat will be so eroded, a 5000rnd 223 Rem chamber might be as long or longer than a 5.56 chamber would have been... or you buy whatever rifle you want and pay a smith $50-75 to ream the throat a touch longer to make a Wylde or 5.56 chamber.... Either way, you’ll be a lot of money into ammo, and only save the ridiculously smallest value by shooting 5.56 instead of 223.

If you really want AR mag compatibility, THAT might be a viable parameter to stand upon, but really, I don’t think it’s worth even as much trouble as we’ve discussed in this thread to seek out a bolt gun with a 5.56 or 223 wylde chamber just to shoot some of the worst ammo in the world. Inexpensive rifle or not.

 

[BigBL87]

Thank you for your suggestion! At the moment right now I’m more on the lookout for an American than the others. It’s really just a battle of what’s gonna go on sale because I’m stuck with all 3. I’ve heard great things about the American, good things about the MVP and semi okay things about the compass.

Really, as long as you're cool with the barrel length it would be my first choice out of the three. When I was looking, I wanted something with a 20+" barrel just to get more velocity than I do out of my 16" AR. As long as that isn't a concern, it's a great option ESPECIALLY if you have AR mags already and can get the model that takes them. As far as I know, the Ranch is the only American that is chambered for 5.56.

 

[armoredman]

Does it have to be a bolt? Palmetto State Armory has massive deals on AR style rifles. Buy a complete lower for $129.99...
https://palmettostatearmory.com/complete-psa-ar-15-lower-classic-edition.html
And a complete upper for $219.99..
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-classic-freedom-m4-upper-with-bcg-and-ch.html
Under $350, not counting tax, shipping and receive fees, figure on about $400 total depending. I have a complete PSA Freedom rifle, works fantastic and is more accurate than I am. PSA has been building fine quality items inexpensively for a while now.
Need but a rear sight or optic to complete, and many places have inexpensive back up rear irons, sometimes in the used bin at your local gun shop.Or slap on what you already have.
Just a thought.

 

[IronsightJM]

Does it have to be a bolt? Palmetto State Armory has massive deals on AR style rifles. Buy a complete lower for $129.99...
https://palmettostatearmory.com/complete-psa-ar-15-lower-classic-edition.html
And a complete upper for $219.99..
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-classic-freedom-m4-upper-with-bcg-and-ch.html
Under $350, not counting tax, shipping and receive fees, figure on about $400 total depending. I have a complete PSA Freedom rifle, works fantastic and is more accurate than I am. PSA has been building fine quality items inexpensively for a while now.
Need but a rear sight or optic to complete, and many places have inexpensive back up rear irons, sometimes in the used bin at your local gun shop.Or slap on what you already have.
Just a thought.

I’ve always liked bolts a lot more than anything else I’m not sure why. Maybe it’s something about the bolt and satisfying when you hit your shot then pull it back. Not the most familiar with the whole body of an AR just the mags and ammo. I’ve seen some cheap ones under the price I’m looking for and was thinking about it. Not sure where to start with it though.

 

[BigBL87]

I’ve always liked bolts a lot more than anything else I’m not sure why. Maybe it’s something about the bolt and satisfying when you hit your shot then pull it back. Not the most familiar with the whole body of an AR just the mags and ammo. I’ve seen some cheap ones under the price I’m looking for and was thinking about it. Not sure where to start with it though.

The other thing to consider is that accuracy for your dollar will tilt towards a bolt. You're much more likely to get a 1 MOA bolt gun for $400 than a 1 MOA AR for the same price.

 

[IronsightJM]

The other thing to consider is that accuracy for your dollar will tilt towards a bolt. You're much more likely to get a 1 MOA bolt gun for $400 than a 1 MOA AR for the same price.

That’s also another reason I’m leaning towards bolt, usually more accurate and hit my shots more. Granted I’ve only shot an AR a few times whereas bolt I’ve had for years.

 

[Dibbs]

Check your LGSs and Pawn Shops. If you can find an AR15 flat-top with a short 5.56 Bull Barrel, you'll be getting accurate, versatile, and adaptable. Any 5.56 barrel will easily handle .223. You could also
find a decent .223 bolt-action. The average store's .223 selection usually has more hunting tipped ammo than 5.56, and in a pinch, 5.56 will shoot from it.
A lot of the folks here, at THR, are year-round hunters, who deal with a lot of pest control and varmints, on the farm, ranch, or plantation.
Beware of too much of your buddy's armchair advice.

 

[Varminterror]

The other thing to consider is that accuracy for your dollar will tilt towards a bolt. You're much more likely to get a 1 MOA bolt gun for $400 than a 1 MOA AR for the same price.

True, until we’re talking about rot-gut, lowest of the low priced 5.56 ammo.

It’s always been exceptionally strange to me to see AR’s selling cheaper than bolt guns. If you’d have told me 15-20yrs ago when I was building and selling AR’s like hot cakes that there would be a day an average Joe could build an AR for less than a bolt gun, I’d have said you were crazy. Even then, I was building AR’s with dealer/gunsmith/wholesale/volume order pricing on components for $250-300, selling at $500-600 for a basic carbine with few if any upgrades, competing with extremely basic factory models of the day, and building proper custom rifles for $600-800 to sell at $1000-1200. Pricing today is wild. Cheaper than they were back then, not even inflation corrected, but flat out cheaper gross price.

 

[BigBL87]

Agreed. I only got into firearms about 7 years ago so the newer AR market is what I've known. Even with that being the case, people had thought the market was about bottomed out when I bought my AR 4-5 years ago when you getting a sub-$600 AR (in my case a PSA) seemed crazy. Then the prices just kept on dropping.

I've been tempted to upgrade the barrel on my AR, as it is currently a 2-3 MOA shooter with the PSA Freedom barrel (with 55gr non-match ammo, in its defense) but since I own a bolt .223 now I really don't see the need any more. I also haven't taken it out with it's new scope and mount, though, so maybe it's more capable than I've seen so far. I've seen some really good groups out of PSA Freedome rifles.

 

[VoodooMountain]

I can.

I have seen them on sale for $200ish. I figured more guys would have one just because of the low cost.


I bought a 6.5 and a 223 myself because of the low cost. I haven't shot them yet though.

 

[Buckeye63]

I have a Ruger American Ranch in 7.62x39
Accurate.. light . But fit and finish...??? Not much

I had a 783 in 270win .. accurate. Better fit and finish than my RAR ..

But , I do like my Mossberg in 6.5 CM

Another rifle to look at is a Savage Axis II , it has the accu-trigger

 

[Skylerbone]

The price for any of these budget rifles is all over the map. Two years ago I paid less than $180 for my Compass after rebate. This past fall I could have added a Mossberg with walnut stock new for $300 or a Savage Axis for under $200. I think accuracy wise you’re poking in the dark with all of them and any given example of any one of them is likely to have a load that just “works”, but I’m not overly convinced one make or another has an edge at the $400 price point.

Contemplating cheap bulk ammo is throwing in the towel on accuracy before you begin to fight and while there may be some measure of satisfaction found in the slow repetition of cycling the bolt, at the end of the day if you aren’t happy with the groups it provides, then where is the joy you seek?

I guess if I were looking again in that range and had to have it now, my choice would be this https://www.smga.com/weatherby/223-rem-blued-accuguard-24t-6474. With more patience, a nice Model 70 or a CZ. I confess some curiosity over what scope choice is to accompany the rifle.

 

[cdb1]

Granted the Vanguard is Weatherby’s budget rifle and many people consider it a budget rifle. I don’t, to me it’s a big step up in grade over an Axis, RAR, 783, XPR and even an AB3.