Best All Around Defense Hand Gun

[Brian Dale]

Relax, 4Freedom. Read a lot here, mine the archives, and don't worry if (when) somebody takes issue with your having written something less precisely that they'd prefer. It's only the Internet.

.357 is smaller than .45 but it's faster; the .357 bullet carries a lot of energy. The big-and-slow vs. small-and-fast argument hasn't gone away yet. There are as many preferences in styles and calibers of guns, and at least as dearly held, as there are about shoes.

Asking questions in the hope that people with more knowledge than I have will answer them is one of the ways in which I learn. Maybe some of y'all are that way, too. Remember, everybody, that we used to have a custom around here about being somewhat welcoming to newer shooters. It's worth keeping.

 

[armoredman]

 

[pogo2]

Vote for Glock 23

I've thought a lot about this general question and have owned or own a lot of different handguns. I'd have to vote for the Glock 23 (which I have owned for 10 years) as the best all around defensive handgun, and my reasons are:

1. As reliable as any handgun I've ever used - not a missed shot or broken part in 10 years.
2. Fires a significant caliber with good power - easily capable of 1200 fps and 500 ft-lbs, giving 14 inch gelatin penetration and expansion to 0.8 inches with the right ammo.
3. I can shoot it as accurately and quickly as anything else I have, and better than most other guns - I'm sure I can get good hits at combat distances.
4. Simple to operate - draw and shoot with no safety to forget under stress.
5. Considerable capacity of 13+1 rounds.
6. Lightweight and remarkably slim and concealable for a gun with this kind of firepower.
7. Tough and durable - can operate in dirty conditions and still work.
8. DAO so every shot is the same - no DA/SA transition like Sigs, etc.
9. Reasonable price so everybody can afford one.

 

[4Freedom]

First I want to thank BrianDale for understanding me and my confusion. Ugh, its so intimidating when you want to buy your first gun. So many choices and so many opinions.

To Pogo, I would like to ask you about GLock 23. Would this gun be both sufficient in chaotic urban situations, as well as be able to penetrate a cougar or black bear. I don't live in grizzly country, nor do I plan on any time soon. If I was to venture into grizzly territory, then I would more likely than not depend on my pepper spray as well as invest in a completely different gun altogether. Where I live we have lot of cougars and black bears. The black bears are usually not a problem, but the cougars are dangerous. I also go into the city at night and there sometimes are drug addicts and gang bangers around. Of course, I do all in my power to avoid bad situations.

 

[kmrcstintn]

for an 'all around' and 'multiple purpose' defense handgun...

I state that it is a 4" barreled .357 magnum revolver...either 6 shot or 7 shot since tastes vary; here's how I see it...I'll use my Ruger Security Six in this example since this what I currently own;

home defense: load with a proven defense load in .38 spl +p (eg: Remington 158gr lswchp variant of beloved 'FBI load')

car defense: load with a proven defense load in .38 spl +p or lowered power .357 magnum (eg: Speer Gold Dot 135gr jhp 'short barrel' load or Remington Golden Sabre 125gr jhp -- less recoil, noise, and muzzle blast vs a fullbore load in an enclosed space)

hiking/woods walking: load with a heavier/deeper penetrating load (well built 158gr, 180gr, or 200gr load that offers deeper penetration before expanding or deforming) -- here's a few examples: Blazer Brass 158gr jacketed (shallow cavity) hollowpoint, virtually everyone's 158gr jsp, 158gr SWC hardened leadhead handloads, Federal 180gr Castcore flat tipped & hardened leadhead, et al; this type of load also functions for hunting medium to large game -- up to a black bear

summary...oodles of loads to choose from for a multitude of uses that can be loaded into the same handgun to serve a variety of needs

 

[pogo2]

Response to question

To Pogo, I would like to ask you about GLock 23. Would this gun be both sufficient in chaotic urban situations, as well as be able to penetrate a cougar or black bear. I don't live in grizzly country, nor do I plan on any time soon. If I was to venture into grizzly territory, then I would more likely than not depend on my pepper spray as well as invest in a completely different gun altogether. Where I live we have lot of cougars and black bears. The black bears are usually not a problem, but the cougars are dangerous. I also go into the city at night and there sometimes are drug addicts and gang bangers around. Of course, I do all in my power to avoid bad situations.

I am not a hunter and have not shot animals with a handgun, so my response is based on what I have read from those more experienced than me. My understanding is that cougars are fairly small animals (150 lbs.) that hunt by ambushing prey from behind, so most victims probably never see the animal until it jumps them. Assuming that you could get your handgun out in time and deliver shots to a vital area, I'm pretty confident that you could stop or kill a cougar with a .40 caliber gun. They are reputed to be fairly thin skinned and easy to kill, although they are clearly strong, tough and fast.

I understand that bears, even the smaller black bear, are much harder to stop than a cougar. I believe that black bears will usually run from a human, and will only attack under unusual circumstances, as when a cub is involved. My first choice for a bear attack would be a shotgun loaded with slugs, but if you had to use a handgun, I think a .40 would be a reasonable choice. Obviously a .44 magnum revolver would be better. As for the type of .40 ammo, it could be that jacketed flat points would be better than hollowpoints, for the sake of penetration in a thick skinned animal like a bear.

Finally you asked about an urban situation in which you might face several fast moving attackers armed with knives, clubs or bare hands. I think a Glock 23 would be an excellent choice because it gives you 14 round capacity, a fast trigger reset for fast shooting, and a light gun that can be quickly moved from one target to the next. And the .40 caliber ammunition has good stopping power against humans, based on all that I have read about police gelatin testing and street experience.

 

[jackstinson]

If a group of thugs were coming after to you to beat you to death and you had to choose one gun to save your life, what would it be?

For a "group of thugs"? A 7.62x39 AK-pistol with at least a 40-round magazine.

 

[IMTHDUKE]

Low capacity, however, these two ain't goin to FTF...

8+ 1 on this one....lets assume you carry an extra mag though...

 

[QuickRick]

all around defense handgun.....

Like some of the other posters I would have some more questions for you. For example, how many in the "Group"? 2 or 3? 5 or 6? etc, do you expect them to be armed and if so then with what (knives, guns, etc)? Where would they likely attack you, at your house, while on foot, etc? For most situations I think you would be well served with a high capacity 40 S&W or 9mm semi auto of known reliability. I would use premium HP ammo such as Remington Golden Sabre or Speer Gold Dots. Last, but not least, I would pray for the strength to respond coolly and decisively if attacked...

 

[4Freedom]

I have been hunting around for some handguns and I have noticed some of them have felt really nice in my hands:
1. Springfield XDM 40 (Match grade)
2. Sig Sauer .357 , even .45 feels good, but bit bulkier
3. 1911 single stack of almost all brands. Double stacks feel a bit bulkier, but most brands still feel decent in my hand.
4. Kahr. Bigger ones and pocket guns.
5. Smith & WEsson Pistols. Haven't tried many, but the few I felt seem ok.

Heres some guns that feel funky in my hand, yet I don't know how I will feel when shooting them. I know that different guns brands vary from model to model, but I am just speaking in general:
1. Glocks. Most of them just have a funky and awkward feel
2. Rugers. Very wide and flat grip, which I seem to hate.


I am yet to shoot any. Would most people think if a gun feels nice in your hands that it would most likely be a good shooter for you? I suppose recoil and some other factors can come into play. The problem is I don't know anyone who owns these guns and none of the rangers here have guns available for shooting. There is this one place that has a lot of glocks you can rent for shooting. But after holding most Glocks, I seem to utterly hate the feel. It just doesn't feel like it is made for human hands, maybe for robots. LOL

 

[f4t9r]

Best for me would be a 1911 pistol I have had for a few years

 

[rbernie]

If a group of thugs were coming after to you to beat you to death and you had to choose one gun to save your life, what would it be?

I've had lots of pistols and revolvers that were all reliable enough to use for self defense. That includes Rugers, Sigs, CZs, Brownings, Kimbers, Springfields, Colts, and so forth.

But a good non-target 1911 (Colt 1991, Springfield MilSpec) or Browning HP are tops in my book for pure fighting pistols.

 

[Fishman777]

My opinions have changed...

Ruger GP100 is my favorite gun, but for a group of bad guys I'd go with an autoloader. I've always liked the Beretta 92 series and Glocks, but I've recently been converted to the XD line. For this scenario, I'd either go with a Springfield XDm or XD45.

 

[Fishman777]

Bears...

I recall reading about a polar bear that was shot and killed by .38 special. A cop shot it in the chest and killed it at a zoo a few years ago. There are other examples of similiar situations happening, but I would not trust any hand gun to reliably stop a bear. .40 S and W was designed to stop people, not Bears.

If I was forced into the situation, I would want at least .44 magnum, but might feel okay about the idea of unloading 16 rounds of 10 mm into it (that is if I could get off that many rounds before it was on top of me).

 

[4Freedom]

I recall reading about a polar bear that was shot and killed by .38 special. A cop shot it in the chest and killed it at a zoo a few years ago. There are other examples of similiar situations happening, but I would not trust any hand gun to reliably stop a bear. .40 S and W was designed to stop people, not Bears.

A polar bear can weigh almost 1500 pounds and a black bear can weigh up to 400 pounds, but usually more around 200-300pounds . Anyhow, where I live we don't have grizzly or polar bears and I think a good penetrating round can stop a black bear. When a bear charges you from close range, sometimes you just dont have your shotgun available and need a handgun to quickly stop the charge. Also, shotguns can be worthless against a mountain lion if you get ambushed. Of course, all these scenarios are rare, but I like to have a protection piece, regardless. I have heard numerous stories of people taking down bears with .45 caliber pistols. With the proper bullet, I don't see how it would be ineffective agaisnt a black bear. I would never dare use one on a grizzly, thats for sure.

 

[jimtc]

I'm a reader not a poster, but...

Coming from a person who has actually seen a mountain lion pounce through the forest (right at my wife 20 ft behind me), stop 5 yards away and duck under cover...

NOBODY, and I emphasize nobody, on this planet, would be able to hit that animal reliably, as I saw it. The sheer speed, nimbleness, and quickness of that cat was a sight to see. The cat was truly unbelievable, as this post probably is to you...but nevertheless it's true.

Yes, my wife and I are very lucky it decided to stop, as there was no way I could have drawn and shot it in the 50 yards it covered in about 2 seconds.


Therefore I recommend, for mountain lion defense, a large knife. I will never go out into the woods without my knife period. Small handguns are best for humans. Big, long guns are the best for bear.

 

[I_AM_LEGEND]

Group of thugs, well if an AR or AK pistol isn't counting as a handgun, I'd go with a Springfield Armory XDm in 9mm. 20+1 I believe... About as good as it gets.

 

[4Freedom]

I'd go with a Springfield Armory XDm in 9mm. 20+1 I believe... About as good as it gets.

I really love the feel and look of the XDm. However, why would you choose the 9mm over the 40? I mean wouldn't the extra fire power be really important versus a few extra rounds? I have heard enough from people that lighter rounds don't always drop the BG when the adrenaline is flowing.

Therefore I recommend, for mountain lion defense, a large knife. I will never go out into the woods without my knife period.

I think if you have the ability to stick a knife into a mountain lion, yo uwould also have the ability to fire a .45 round into him, which has a much greater chance of killing him. Also, no one should underestimate the power of pepper spray. Almost half the testimonies on some bear pepper spray sites I have seen have been against mountain lions, rather than black bears. Of course, if he is on your back trying to go for your throat, I think placing a bullet in him would be easier than trying to use a knife. i am read that a majority of cougar attacks come from behind. They rarely jump on you from the front.

 

[jimtc]

I probably should have mentioned pepper spray. I have carried it for a long time. Never needed it though.


If you are in a situation where a mountain lion is attacking your spouse/kid/dog...do you really want to be trying to shoot it? Well, maybe if you don't like your dog, but:

I thought I would have no problem shooting one before this experience. Now that I think about it, I wasn't even thinking about shooting a cat before. I heard they are a minimal threat to humans, and it just never really crossed my mind as a legitimate threat. I previously carried a handgun for self defense from people, and for scaring bears away. Pepper spray was carried for bears also, in case they got closer. Now, after the fact, when I can picture my situation more clearly, there is no way I'd take a chance relying solely on a handgun for defense from a mountain lion, or from a bear. Because, if you see one of these cats and it acted anything like the one we saw, it's already going to be on it's target by the time you see it. I assume I'd have a different opinion if I would have experienced a mountain lion slowly stalking us from afar, as outlined below:

It would slowly creep up on us, about a hundred yards away. I, being the superior mammal, a human being, would keenly hear it snap a twig under one of its feet. I would then immediately draw my gun, knowing something is up, and point it right in the direction of the snap, only to lock eyes with the mountain lion, right over my sights. A little squeeze turns the laser on, which despite the bright daylight, I can still see it blazing a imaginary hole, right between its eyes. I would yell that I am higher on the food chain than you, and that you should just leave us alone, with my wife trembling right behind me, holding the dog. Then it would show it's teeth, and come charging right at me, in total rage. At that point I would empty my magazine in the cat, having it drop dead in it's tracks, hearing only the thump of it falling over, and then the clapping and cheering from my wife behind me. We would then go on to take pictures and hug each other in victory.


Let's get real here. That ain't gunna happen, ever.

I'd have to have time to: realize what was happening and recognize the threat (1-2 seconds), take out the pistol (1 second), and fire 10 rounds at it (another 2 seconds). Only one would need to hit it. And that's if I'm on "red alert;" ready to act. If I am lolly-gagging down to the river in my bathing suit to take a swim, it's gunna take a bit longer to think and act.

I said it was 2 seconds from the time my wife said "what's that?" to the time it ducked under cover. Well, OK, 3 seconds, I exagerrated a little. It still covered 50 yards. Fifty, solid, yards, in three seconds. That's reality, and that's why a knife and pepper spray are in best order.

 

[Mello]

4Freedom

Best All Around Defense Hand Gun
If a group of thugs were coming after to you to beat you to death and you had to choose one gun to save your life, what would it be?

I'm limited to hand guns and the group of thugs is unarmed? I assume they are unarmed because the question states they are coming "to beat you to death".

This is the Dozier Drill scenario. Find several guns you like and practice the Dozier Drill.

The Dozier Drill is engaging 5 Pepper Poppers at a distance of 7 feet, but you start with your back to the targets and your gun holstered. At the signal to start you turn and fire to knock down all the targets as quickly as possible.
A good time from the signal to start to the last shot fired is 3 seconds. Some really good shooters get close to 2 seconds. To approach this time the shooter must not miss and fire only one round per target.

Pepper Poppers are critical to this drill. Pepper Poppers are 36" tall armor plate targets that are set to fall when hit center of mass (or higher) with a major caliber round. It takes two 9mm rounds center of mass to make them fall.

Find what works for you.

Because I have been trained and practice, I choose the most powerful semi-auto I can carry concealed, Colt Delta Elite in 10mm 200gr @1200fps.