Best Assault Rifle (Poll)

Which combat rifle do you think is the best?

  • Steyr AUG

    Votes: 15 3.3%
  • FN FAL

    Votes: 54 11.8%
  • H&K G36

    Votes: 15 3.3%
  • IMI Galil ARM 5.56

    Votes: 8 1.8%
  • IMI Tavor TAR-21

    Votes: 4 0.9%
  • AKM

    Votes: 58 12.7%
  • M16A2 and M4 Carbine

    Votes: 124 27.2%
  • M14

    Votes: 65 14.3%
  • G3A3

    Votes: 14 3.1%
  • H&K G11

    Votes: 4 0.9%
  • FN SCAR-L 5.56

    Votes: 14 3.1%
  • H&K 416

    Votes: 9 2.0%
  • FN F2000

    Votes: 5 1.1%
  • AK-74

    Votes: 43 9.4%
  • AR-10

    Votes: 19 4.2%
  • FN FNC

    Votes: 5 1.1%

  • Total voters
    456
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I voted for the FAL as the best combat rifle. I've shot an M14, own two FALs, numerous ARs and an AKM. If I was going in combat, I'd take the FAL. It's got stopping power, penetration power, good ergonomics, reliability, good range, and mine is a Para so it's compact. AK would be second choice.

However, I've never been in combat and I'm never going to be in military combat, so take that for what it's worth. My AR carbines are my primary go-to guns for civilian life. They are lighter, more accurate, and easier to shoot than the FALs or AK.
 
I would like to clarify a couple of things in this post:
A.) This post is mostly for technology reasons, and has less to do with combat experience with a particular weapon (note that this poll is not "what is your favorite combat rifle", but "what combat rifle do you think is the best").
B.) The weapons are selected as representative of selected groups, hence why the L85 and FAMAS are not shown, because I believe that the AUG represents that category more than admirably. I know that there are some repetitions here, the FAL and G3A3 are very similar weapons in both ruggidity and weight (as well as the obvious, magazine capacity and caliber).
C.) I only included the M16/M4 for posterity, I personally hate the weapon. And, yes, I have shot one. And cleaned it. It's fine for hunting and plinking, where you go home at the end of the day and clean the crap outta the sucker, but I wouldn't want to be caught in a lockdown-firefight situation with one (better than nothing, though).
D.) As for the videogames thing, well, yes, in large part, my contact with these weapons is mostly limited to playing Call of Duty or 007: Nightfire, but I am not enough of an idiot to consider that true experience. By those games, I would consider the AK every time, because I'm a dead shot with it there. However, I have actually fired the AK (on semiauto), and I can tell you that it's accuracy is a little lackluster, to say the least.
E.) Not a one of you gave me input into what would make the rifles you chose better. This post was not designed to crown the best combat rifle in the world, it was designed to, hopefully, get some information out of people with experience about what they liked about these rifles, and what they thought could be improved. I am a designer of firearms above all else, and I wanted to know what you liked and what you didn't.
I would appreciate it if the 24 of you would repost with recommendations for improvements on the weapons you chose.
Thank you for your input.
 
Best? Ain't no such animal. Now there are a few that would be considered top flight and among the best, but 'the' best? Nope.
 
To Gewehr98: "Assault Rifle" was not coined by anti-gunners, it was actually coined by Hitler. "Sturmgewehr" in German roughly means "Assault Rifle". Your name implies that you should have known that. Nowadays, assault rifle merely means "a rifle of intermediate caliber, capable of controllable, fully-automatic fire". It has little to do with anti-gunners, they have merely hijacked the term.
To Correia: Yes, and it was created by someone who has fired only two weapons on the list, and only once each. The point of this poll is not to share combat experience, it is to think about what works and what does not. The HK 416 is a viable candidate because many, many people have fired the M16/M4, and it is effectively the same rifle with a gas piston. As for the G11, it is unfortunate that it was not adopted, because I would love to hear reports of its unique features in combat.
To sacp81170a: Yes, I am talking about a combat rifle. I already know what I'd want for an entry weapon, and that is a shotgun of my own design using the basic concept of the Atchisson AA-12 in the frame of a G3A3.
 
I am searching for opinions, Deaf Smith, but I only want reasoning and constructive advice to address the flaws of the weapon. That is correct, there is no "best" assault rifle. It depends on what you are doing. However, people know what I want when I say 'best".
 
To Correia: Yes, and it was created by someone who has fired only two weapons on the list, and only once each.

To sacp81170a: Yes, I am talking about a combat rifle. I already know what I'd want for an entry weapon, and that is a shotgun of my own design using the basic concept of the Atchisson AA-12 in the frame of a G3A3.

Fascinating. When was the last time you cleared a 7 story building? I did with my partner last Sunday morning about 3 am. Took us about an hour and a half. Sounds like you need to actually cobble together your design and spend some time lugging it up and down some stairs and around a few corners before you make any judgements about entry weapons. (Hint: Heavy - baaad. Light - goooood. Given that your round is effective at the range you expect to encounter, that is.)

Not a one of you gave me input into what would make the rifles you chose better. This post was not designed to crown the best combat rifle in the world, it was designed to, hopefully, get some information out of people with experience about what they liked about these rifles, and what they thought could be improved. I am a designer of firearms above all else, and I wanted to know what you liked and what you didn't.

You admit to having little to no real world experience, yet you question the judgement of those of us who do, and then want us to lay our pearls of wisdom at your feet. The kind of learning you're after can only be gained by sweat and effort. Go forth and do, young man. Then get back to us. ;)
 
With all due respect, sacp81170a, I never said I hadn't born extreme loads for long distances. I have. I do not just sit at my computer all day and do nothing, I currently am on quite a bit because I happen to be recovering from two broken legs.
I know how much an Atchisson weighs, approximately 10 pounds unloaded. A G3A3 weighs a little under that. I would choose that weapon for its ability to dish out 12 gauge shells at responsive rates of fire accurately. I'm much more inclined to shotguns than rifles. It is a personal preference, sir. I never said I'd force anyone else to carry it.
I'm not questioning anyone's judgment, I'm looking for your experience. I'm seeking experienced counsel because I, at only sixteen years of age, cannot gain real combat experience with these weapons, so I was hoping to garner actual knowledge from those who have fought and bore these weapons on their backs. Unfortunately, I did not clarify that I sought not "what's the favorite?" but actual experienced advice.
 
Most experts don't consider rifles like the FAL and M14 assault rifles. They are battle rifles, and are totally uncontrollable under full automatic fire. And assault rifle fires intermediate ammunition, not full power rifle ammunition.
 
I voted AUG just because it has been the one I have wanted the longest.

But I would take any of them, given enough ammo and time to get comfortable with the gun.

Steve
 
GunTech: I know, that's why I changed the name from "Best Assault Rifle" to "Best Combat Rifle". Unfortunately, I forgot to change it on the title.
 
What makes one assault rifle 'better'. Well, to answer Nolo:

308 is out. Totally uncontrollable under full automatic fire. The assault rifle is a multi-role weapon. One of the weapons it replaces is the SMG. There are times when automatic fire is appropriate - particularly in the assault, or when engaging moving targets where only a brief exposure of the target occurs. Or when suppressing a target during fire and maneuver. The amount of time where aimed fire is actually possible and appropriate is actually rather limited in modern mobile warfare.

Rounds should be relatively effective at normal combat ranges. Despite conventional wisdom, the 5.56 was 11% more combat effective (lethal) than 7.62x51 in Vietnam. This is mostly due to the performance of ball ammunition. See http://www.fen-net.de/norbert.arnoldi/army/wound.html

223 rounds are lighter than 308, meaning that more ammunition can be carried.

As for the weapons remaining, two stand out - the AK-74 and the M16. The AK is a derivative to one of the best military small arms ever made. It is utterly reliable and has increased lethality over the 7.62x39 version. It is combat proven.

The M16, while initially have teething problems, is now a very mature and reliable weapon system. It does require maintenance. It is far more accurate than the AK, and thanks to its modular design, lends itself to an amazine variability. Modern versions feature integrated picatinny rails in every location imaginable. Barrel changes are trivial.

The direct gas action, derided by many, makes for a very light weapon and enhances accuracy as there is no moving mass on the barrel like piston operated rifle.

The M16 and the AK have been in the field for over 4 decades. Having looked at some of the newcomers, I am not impressed. The L85 has a horrible reputation for reliability - even after HK made a number of improvements. The AUG is not well like by the troops I talked to (Kiwis) to whom they were issued.

The M14 and FAL are really only suited for DMR these days, and in that role, the M14 wins the day. The FAL has a horrible trigger that is basically unfixable, and does not lend itself to accurizing or optical mounts like the M14 does. Both are inferior to AR-10 derived SASS. Go to any service rifle match and the AR derived rifles rule that event.

G11. Interesting concept, but a 19 caliber bullet!? This is loved by people who think the P90 is actually useful against people who are shooting back at you.

Galil - superior weapon but heavy. I would not feel undergunned with a Galil.

FNC - a rifle that deserved better than it got. a Simplified AK gas system using Johnson style locking. The SCAR might be an improvement, but it is too early to tell. The FNC lacked flexibility. No easy way to mount different optics, lasers, etc.

HK G3 - FAL with a worse trigger and the ergonomics of a 2x4. Delayed blowback in a 308 is scary. HK itself abandoned roller locking in all of its rifles. Ejected brass is almost as dangerous as the bullets.

G36 - an AR-18 in different clothes. Some improvments, but it felt flimsy and was very uncomforatble after extended full auto fire. The XM8, a tarted up G36, did not do well in tests. This is a great rifle for people who don't plan on being in combat much. It way to expensive for what you get. Favored by the trendy.

The FN2000 looks promising from the perspective that they have solved the right/left eject issue with bullpups. It suffers from the same issues as other bullpups - magazine access is awkward. Bullpups get there butts kicked in tactical matches because the aren't as user friendly when it comes to stuff like reloading.

Finally, to address the shotgun - it is a very specialized tool. Even with 00 buck, effective range is really only about 30 yards. Sometimes, you want a little more reach - actually, most of the time.

There are a few new designs that seem to have promise. I am particularly intered in the MagPul Masad, mostly because their rifle is evolutionary, and because they have been turning out first class products for a while. But I won't be impressed until it's been around for a while, and some grunts get their hands on it.

The above are only my opinions, based on my experience with a number of class III and civilian versions of the above. YMMV
 
I'm taking the AKM(AK-103) and the M4 out tomorrow and will vote afterwards. I like certain aspects of both rifles, especially the reliability of the AK. As far as the AR, I really like the ergonomics/sight radius/customized aspect. More ammo can be carried for the AR/M4 but the AK can be used as a club blah, blah, blah... I just need someone to give me a 416 so I can better evaluate my position. :)
 
Bring back the G11, introduce the term "ergonomics" to such a design, and see where that gets you. Incredibly innovative and forward thinking....if their buyer didn't back out at the "last minute", imagine where we'd be with firearms today?

Though, I'd say the SCAR is a close second, for the innovation in it, as well--it just makes sense!
 
I'd say M16/M4 mainly because it is the dominant weapon of this country, a platform with a huge fine-grain range of options and quality to choose from. That it is the dominant choice for this country's* military and police gives a big boost to options, ammo and availability.

Others are certainly available and may have particular advantages, but looking at the issue broadly methinks it wins the most points overall.

* - Other countries may vary. If you live in Russia, having an AK47 is the best choice for the same basic reasons.
 
C.) I only included the M16/M4 for posterity, I personally hate the weapon. And, yes, I have shot one. And cleaned it. It's fine for hunting and plinking, where you go home at the end of the day and clean the crap outta the sucker, but I wouldn't want to be caught in a lockdown-firefight situation with one (better than nothing, though).

:rolleyes:

Haven't spent much time with one have you?

Chuck
 
Eh, not near enough, true. But I don't like the idea of a weapon that will fail on me. I really don't. The whole direct gas impringement system really turns me off. I wish we could fix it while keeping the benefits. Filters, maybe!? I dunno...
 
Thank you very much, GunTech, that was highly useful. I'm getting the impression that the 5.56mm round is a whole lot more powerful than I was formerly led to believe. I know that, without accounting for tumbling, it produces about 200 ft-lbs less energy than the 7.62x39mm (1500ft-lbs) round (which also tumbles, I think), so I guess my question is: when you settle it down, do you get approximately the same performance out of the 7.62 Soviet and 5.56 NATO rounds (as far as stopping power is concerned, I know trajectories are way different)? If so, can you get that same performance out of a carbine (14.5 or 10.5 inch barrels)?
 
Those videos made me smile.
But seriously, I mean, 7.62x51 is hard on you on full auto...
I think. I haven't had any real experience with it.
 
Nolo said:

"To Gewehr98: "Assault Rifle" was not coined by anti-gunners, it was actually coined by Hitler"



there's a good point... you and hitler...


good on ya...
 
Repost, as asked.

My experience is limited - G3A3, Galil AR and SN, M14, G36 - from this list.

But my job is something where I do need the reach of 7.62x51 and precise weapon to deliver it, thus I voted Mk.11 Mod.0 (AR-10 approx) or SASS. No I haven't shot one, so this is a bit uneducated opinion, but I've heard many good things about it.

If to limit my selection on my experience, then M14 with good stock (like JAE-100) as DMR.

As an assault rifle I do like the G11 design idea, but as my "experience" with it is limited with games only I won't vote for it. But I like the burst mechanics on it.
 
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