Best Assault Rifle (Poll)

[Caimlas]

Well now, that wasn't really fair of you. You paired the M16 and the M4 in the same option, despite the many shortcomings of the M4 and the fact that it's almost an entirely different gun (in terms of what comes out the end).

Second choice would have been Galil, I believe. The reason I didn't pick it was because it's quite a bit heavier, and in a mixed gender military where your troops have to carry a lot of stuff around, I don't see the Galil having much of an advantage - at least for us. Especially due to the fact that we're not using a lot of optics.

However, I still picked M16/M4 because of the platform. It is, by far, the most adaptable and modularly conceived gun of the lot, and has evolved into quite a "modern combat weapon" over the past 30 or so years - in no small part due to the fact that it's been monopolized upon as a tack driver and employed for long-range competition matches.

I might have picked something more durable and likely capable of "1 shot kills" than the AR/M16/M4 if we were in a different kind of war than we are now, but as I see it, what we've got now hits the spot.

As has been said, the M16/M4 prevails largely due to the fact that a lot of design features which have been popping up on other firearms were first made popular on the AR platform - specifically, the integral weaver rail on a flattop upper. Which brings me to it's other large strength: the fact that the upper and lower can be so easily mated and unmated, and that an entirely different upper can be put on the same lower, and vis versa. That (in conjunction with some of the AR platform's other refinements), in my mind, is an armorer's dream, making it all the better as a military/combat/combat assault rifle arm.

As for improvements: there are only two general criticisms I have for the platform:
1) The caliber. It would be nice to have something a little larger. Though, at the same time, the caliber can be seen as a strength: less weight to carry for the same amount of ammo, meaning a soldier can carry more. Kinda nice if you've got a need to put a lot of lead down range, I'd think.
2) The gas system. I've heard it's a problem for some, though I've never personally had a problem and have heard of several people who have put 5000+ rounds through their ARs in dusty, dirty environments without any cleaning. At the very least, (say) give the designated marksmen the more accurate uppers and the rank-and-file soldiers something more reliable/less needing of cleaning.

So, as for improvements: I don't really think there needs to be any made. It's a good weapon platform; I do think that military acquisitions could vary the rifles a bit, though: get rid of direct gas for those who don't need the accuracy (ie M4s, and most soldiers in general), and consider phasing in a different caliber bullet (6.8 or 6.5 - I'm a fan of 6.5).

Weapons I thought have promise as a platform but aren't used by anyone yet (still in development/pre-sales, etc.) are the H&K XM-8 (G36 heritage, ergonomic, weight reduction, uniform platform), the SCAR (not so appealing to me but it's still a good option - I'm not sure what it offers vs. the AR and it has diff advantage(s) than the XM8), and lastly, the KelTec RFB in .308 - simply because it';s the first .308 bullpup I've heard of, and from what I can see it appears to be a pretty awesome and revolutionary design (if it works).

ETA: oops, my post got chopped somehow.

I'd love to see a SCAR or XM8 in 6.5M or 6.8spc...

As for the guns I've got or shot from the list (in bold, * indicates those I've only handled):

Steyr AUG*
FN FAL
H&K G36
IMI Galil ARM 5.56 (ok, a clone)
IMI Tavor TAR-21
AKM (many variants, fa and semi)
M16A2 and M4 Carbine (many variants, fa and semi)
M14
G3A3
H&K G11
FN SCAR-L 5.56
H&K 416
FN F2000*
AK-74
AR-10
FN FNC

Not exactly an expert, but I like to think I think. It's just an opinion folks - deep breaths!

 

[Caimlas]

Oh, and Nolo, that sounds like it could be interesting! (re: scaling down 3006 to a 6.5mm bullet size). At the very least it would provide for some more interesting bullet and cartridge combinations. For a weapon like this, however, you'd be stuck with the limitation of case length, in which case you might as well just use something like a 308 case necked down - and then you're in familiar territory of some wildcats and the 6.5 Grendel again.

 

[Caimlas]

I really believe that most of the guys that don’t like or at least don’t respect the M16-M4 haven’t spent any real time with them. Get a good AR15, learn how to clean it (not spotless by any means), learn how to lube it, and feed it good ammo through good magazines, and it is a very reliable weapon.

and you really don't need to do much of that, either. Good ammo and magazines, sure - the hotter the ammo, generally the better - but the hotter your ammo the less you need to clean it.

 

[Fosbery]

Just looking at the results of this poll, I wonder on what experience the 2 people who voted for the H&K G11 are basing their answer I won't answer because SIG 55x isn't on the list.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

Well, I own an M1A, an AK74, and 2 AR's. While all three are great, and have been perfectly reliable, I would pick my AR's as the best all around fighting guns. So I voted M16/M4 carbine. I really like my AK also, and have been shooting it alot more lately because ammo is so cheap for it. .308 surpluss is rare, and .223 is getting pricey.

That being said, I carried my M1A in the days following Katrina, and it was never more than a foot away from me at any time.

 

[Gtscotty]

Probably not too many people have any real experience with the g11, I believe it was produced in pretty limited numbers (couple of prototypes). I do however think that it warrants some attention, if only for its cartridge system. I hope that eventually a feasible case-less round will come around, seems like it could be the "last word" in maximizing mag capacity and minimizing weight. All in all I'm tempted to chock the g11 up to "possibly ahead of its time". If you adapt the list above to ideal shtf rifles, me thinks the galil becomes pretty attractive, theoretically there should be at least some nato standard 5.56 floating around in this post-apocalyptic world, and in terms of hardiness the general ak design might come in handy.

 

[Rifleman 173]

I spent 19 months in combat in Viet Nam. In combat you will carry different firearms from time-to-time in a paratrooper unit. Sometimes you'll do so voluntarily and other times you'll be told to carry something different or in addition to what you're used to having. I've found that each rifle or gun fills a different slot or gives different performance charateristics. My last 7 months in Nam I carried an XM-21 sniper rifle. The civilian version is called an M1A rifle. Those rifles are great for accuracy BUT the ammo is hell to hump because you can't carry as much as a guy with an M-16. I carried about 12 fully loaded magazines while most of my fellow troopers carried 15 to 20+ loaded magazines for their M-16 rifles. So, if I wanted long range and extreme accuracy, I'd carry an M1A rifle with match ammo. If I were going to do a lot of moving around or long distance walking, I'd carry an AR-15/M-4 rifle. If I were going to be moving around in built-up area combat (MOUT/urban fighting) I'd want an AK style rifle or M1A rifle depending upon circumstances. If I were moving a whole lot, it would be the AK. If I could have a specifically defined zone in an urban fight with limited or no movement expected, I'd want the M1A. Any way you cut it, whatever rifle I take with me, I definitely want a scope AND metal sights for it. Presently I am re-thinking my rifle needs because of the introduction of the new cartridges. I am thinking over using either a 6.8 SPC or a 6.5 Grendel in an M-4 format. I'm leaning towards the 6.5 Grendel because of better accuracy. Decisions. Decisions. Decisions.:banghead:

 

[Dannavyret]

Sorry to go against my country but the AK-47 is history's best assault rifle. As old man "Klash" once said. "I designed a weapon for the masses, so simplistic a child would understand its operation in a minute and so stout it would make a fine farming tool in peace time."

I think the old man has grown senile.

 

[Val USP]

I completely agree with History or Military channel – 10 best assault rifle in the world:
#1 – Kalashnikov (AK47, AKM, AK74 and other)
#2 – M16 (AR16, M16A2, M4 and other)

And all others – FAR below ….

 

[jpwilly]

I voted the AR-10 becuase the .308. #2 would be the M16 / M4.

 

[Geno]

Should have had 17 options:

DMPS AP4 in .308 or .260 with steel upper receiver:

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Doc2005

 

[elmerfudd]

Sorry to go against my country but the AK-47 is history's best assault rifle. As old man "Klash" once said. "I designed a weapon for the masses, so simplistic a child would understand its operation in a minute and so stout it would make a fine farming tool in peace time."

Or in the words of Nicholas Cage, "So easy a child can use it....and they do."

 

[ilbob]

Ideally, you would get the reliability and simplicity of an AK with a cartridge that has more oomph. Maybe a lightweight AK style rifle in .308.

But really, aren't the ballistics of the AK round already pretty decent? Soup it up a little and maybe it is the ideal firearm. You could carry almost as much 7.62x39 as you can 5.56, and the bullet is 2.5X as heavy so you get more punch at longer ranges.

 

[Never No More]

Guys,

It pains me to think you are adopting the liberals theme of calling all pra-military firearms, Assult guns.

According to the DOD Dept of Defense firearms classification:

An Assult rifle has one distinguishing trait.

The selector switch goes AUTO SEMI SAFE

How many of the do that?

AR does nto stand for Assult, it stands for automatic rifle

and a M-14 is a battle rifle.

Lead by esample

 

[GunTech]

Actually, AR originally stood for ARmalite. There was a whole series of rifles designed at Armalite, most by Stoner.

And assault rifle, by definition, fires an intermediate power cartridge and has both semi-automatic and fully-automatic fire.

But I don't get in a twist when someone calls an AR-15 or similar semi-auto and 'assasult rifle'. Technically, one could say it is a semi-auto only version of an assasult rifle.

The AK is a superior bullet hose, and follows very closely the original German concept. It's not particularly accurate, but since the Soviets view it as a product improved SMG, they only expect it to be effective at 50-100m.

Americans have the rifleman mentality, and think they need a combat rifle that can accurately engage targets at 1000 meters. However, this is not the case in actual ground combat.

The AK is a good design, but it lacks the flexibility of the M16 platform, the 'lego' of guns as some have called it. Neither the 5.56x45 nor the 7.62x39 is an ideal round for all around military use.

I'd pick the M16 over the AK. But what I really want is a weapon that:

Has the flexibility of the M14. Easy modification of the basic design.

The reliability of the AK

A round somewhere between the two, i.e. 6.8 or 6.5g. Both of those rounds however, are limited by the fact they have to fit in an M16 magazine. Get rid of that requitrement and you can have a round with reasonable recoil and controllability that still has high lethality and extended range for use in DMRs and LMGs

 

[GunTech]

Doc2005

How much does that beast weigh?

 

[Tomcat47]

I like the AR of course...very nice formadble firearm.
Really would be my 1st choice in a combat situation I suppose
I actually answered the poll with the HK G36. I was actually thinking sniper rifle in my mind, as when I seen G36 that was my choice.

My favorite HK is the msg90 and for reasons above it made it to the DOD's list of assaultweapons and that is why it is a pain to own in the states, and the G36 evolved.

This thread was a good one ...maybe me relook at terminology and consider my decisions based on terminology. The liberals would be all over this...we could quickly be painted into a proverbial corner.

Very Nice AP4 Doc.....Veeeerrrrry nice. only seen one other with the full metal upper.

 

[amprecon]

I only have experience with a couple of the options posted and that experience is non-combat I chose the M-14 rifle.
It being the rifle I qualified with in the military and having owned it's cousin the M1 Garand before qualifications, I have found the design reliable, durable and accurate.
As I have never been an infantryman and had to lug around alot of equipment I can only imagine that the lighter the equipment the better. However, being that the rifle is the primary weapon of the infantryman, I believe the M-14 would fit the bill in performing more than adequately under the conditions that I could imagine myself using it in.

 

[Owen]

anyone of them will do.

Software trumps hardware.

 

[PercyShelley]

It pains me to think you are adopting the liberals theme of calling all pra-military firearms, Assult guns.

If you're going to be pedantic about it, I'll point out that an assault gun is an armored fighting vehicle used as line-of-sight infantry support.

 

[Val USP]

The AK is a superior bullet hose, and follows very closely the original German concept. It's not particularly accurate, but since the Soviets view it as a product improved SMG, they only expect it to be effective at 50-100m.

Well, first of all during WWII Germans invent a lot of things - and not only Russians follows German concept. I can mention aviation and rockets developed in US but originally - Germans.
Than, I would mention that AK (of course with worst accuracy than M16) still using in Iraq on distance far longer than 50-100m. And it is proven distance for any combat situations - up to 250 -350 m.(based on experience in Vietnam, Afghanistan in arab part of Israel)

Americans have the rifleman mentality, and think they need a combat rifle that can accurately engage targets at 1000 meters. However, this is not the case in actual ground combat.

Dude, 1000m for M16???? It is not sniper rifle. It is no doubt more accurate than AK47 or AKM. But I tried AR16 and Vepr in the same caliber at 100 y - with similar results.

The AK is a good design, but it lacks the flexibility of the M16 platform, the 'lego' of guns as some have called it. Neither the 5.56x45 nor the 7.62x39 is an ideal round for all around military use.

OK, check history of these rounds. Check how many people died from these rounds in the world, and how many from 223?

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Gewehr98 Quoted:

(I won't propogate a gun term coined by anti-gunners, myself included)

I agree
An assault rifle is a term in this country to take decent firearms out of your hands. I am not talking fully automatic.
One more Katrina and you need to protect your property and family, a nice m4 platform will do the job.

 

[RLsnow]

HK416 as much as i love the others on the list, id go with that one

 

[SAG0282]

Had to pick the m14.

 

[doc2rn]

I got to use a Steyr in 97 and I have to say it's bullpup configuration and full auto capability is impressive. cleaning was easy and I had never been instructed on the rifle. I wish they considered these for all combat corpsman rather than the P gun.