Best Barrel Length For AR Pistol/SBR?

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HGM22

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Can anyone give me a quick run down on the best barrel length for an AR pistol/SBR in their opinion and why they think so? I'm thinking specifically of the 10.5'', 11.5'', and 12.5'' lengths, but I suppose everything in fair game (9'', 14.5'', etc.). I'm only interested in 5.56/.223 calibers.

Is there a major velocity drop from one to the next, where certain loads will fail to perform? What about reliability; is there a major reliability drop off?
 
10.5" has been touted as the shortest length you can go with carbine gas while maintaining reliability. Pistol gas is not as reliable, as well as extracting still-puffed cases. Anything over 10.5", and it is no longer a pistol* (OAL > 26"). So, I vote 10.5", which is what I built mine in (since traded).

*ETA: As was pointed out in post #12, a pistol can be over 26" OAL, it is the addition of a vertical foregrip that changes the designation.
 
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10.5" is the shortest I'd go for 556/223 caliber. I have one and by the time you put a flash can on the end, it's longer than you'd expect. Anything longer than 10.5" and I'd just go straight to 16".
 
Colt did that work back in the 60's and settled on the 10.5" as the shortest practical length, the DOD adopted it in 1965 and it became the XM177. For all intents and purposes going shorter has exponentially increasing losses in power and velocity along with more muzzle blast that affects the shooter and those around them. It wasn't pleasant even then, and they adopted a moderator which became classified as a silencer by the ATF.

Noveske was a big fan of the 11.5" and touted it's many benefits. There is an incremental difference and for some it's worth it. When discussing SBR's and pistols at the 10.5" length an additional inch or loss of an inch does make some difference.

For most of us, going 10.5" means the standard length carbine buffer, whether issue or formed as a non issue pistol buffer, will result in an overall length of less than 26" from end of buffer tube to barrel muzzle. That makes it a PISTOL under the law and the benefit is that it is handled as if it were a handgun when carry and use are applied. Your state and local laws are what you would deal with and that is important. If it's over 26" it may NOT be a pistol, but some other weapon. And that means it would likely be treated as a long arm under the local law -

In my jurisdiction I can carry a pistol loaded concealed ready to hand but a long arm has to be unloaded cased in the back of the vehicle. It makes a difference.

It also goes to using a front vertical grip, under 26" you can't, over 26" you can - but it's due to that Pistol vs Other line in the sand. It's artificial but it is coded into law and it is important.

If we add the stock and it becomes an SBR, then it's a "RIFLE" and it falls under even more restrictions. Some consider owning a Stamp and having government approval as a bonus, others do not. It goes to whether you think that having a $26 accessory to improve long distance hits on a close quarters defensive weapon is worth the expense. Note that most include a red dot to improve accuracy and that is what they rely on, the stock just stabilizes the rear of the weapon and prevents any additional movement. It nonetheless still bobbles around even then, tho, doesn't it? Your choice if that makes a difference when the target is less than 21 feet away - which is the standard operational use of a short barreled firearm.

Nobody says they can't hold a 9mm and hit their target at that range, how much easier two hands and a cheek weld on a low recoiling 5.56? DI's in training demonstrate how little recoil there is by holding the butt to their chin.

You can buy and build a pistol or SBR to whatever barrel length you want, but the decision was made over 50 years ago. 10.5" is the most effective in terms of being short but still putting out bullets that can do the job. With the pistol it means using a standard carbine length buffer, which are relatively inexpensive, rather than a high cost custom short buffer system which exponentially raises the cost of the finished gun.
 
I'm a big fan of SBRs, but I have none in 5.56. Short barrel lengths loose way too much with this cartridge in my opinion. 10.5" with 7.62x39 (10.25") or 300BO keep about 85% of the energy and I have one of each.

Mike
 
Well, plenty of folks have shorty AR’s that work.
That said, a short barrel on an AR means a shorter gas system, so the gas acting on the BCG will be at a much higher pressure (unless the gas system is adjusted somehow), and likewise there is also much higher pressure on the case walls as the bolt is trying to extract the case, potentially leading to extraction issues.
A larger round – say, 300 Blackout or 7.62x39, will have a peak pressure that (usually) occurs much earlier, since they have almost double the volume in the barrel compared to a 5.56 of the same length (volume varies with the square of radius) so by the time the bolt is trying to extract, the pressure is lower, even with a short barrel (and concomitant short gas system).
All of this, when the muzzle velocity for 5.56 drops off sharply in a short barrel.
I personally, wouldn’t go anything less than the 12.5 in a 5.56.* (Although I second Arizona Mike's comment - for short barrels, I would use either 300 Blackout or 7.62x39 anyway).
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/223rifle.html
http://rifleshooter.com/2015/12/223...el-length-and-velocity-26-inches-to-6-inches/
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/
http://rifleshooter.com/2016/01/7-62x39-mm-russian-effects-of-barrel-length-on-velocity/
http://www.avtomats-in-action.com/pro22.html
 
My initial reply was about external ballistics only. Port pressure and pressure at time of extraction is another issue.

This famous diagram from a military journal illustrates the point Prijador's point perfectly.

barrel5.jpg

Mike
 
For SBR I personally like 11.5" heavy. I was issued a 10.?" barrel in the military, so that is what I used in certain situations, others I used the standard 14.5". For a civilian pistol, I would use the 10.5 or whatever it is, just to minimize OAL. Either of these options are most reliable, with a variety of rounds. The shorter pistol tubes tend to be problematic with certain rounds, plus the carbine length components are more available. i only sued the shorter barrels with a RDS for situations where we knew things would be "up close". Standard barrels for working "out in the open", with magnified optics. Those shorter barrels rob considerable muzzle velocity, and start to effect ballistics on the far end of longer shots (300+ meters- like in a desert) and ballistic sights like ACOGs don't work right with a slower MV.
 
My pistol started out as a 8 1/2" pistol gas, worked just fine supersonic..changed it to a 12 1/2" but a little too long....also pistol gas, finally settled on 10 1/2" and it shoots flawlessly...supersonic...and with a Faxon Loud Mouth brake it is not a stelth handgun. Fun to shoot!
Should have mentioned mine is in 300 BO.
 
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My pistol started out as a 8 1/2" pistol gas, worked just fine supersonic..changed it to a 12 1/2" but a little too long....also pistol gas, finally settled on 10 1/2" and it shoots flawlessly...supersonic...and with a Faxon Loud Mouth brake it is not a stelth handgun. Fun to shoot!
Is that a "Loudener" :D

loudener.jpg

Mike
 
badkarmamib said:
Anything over 10.5", and it is no longer a pistol (OAL > 26")
There is no maximum length for a pistol; you can have a pistol that's over 26" overall length. The change comes when you add a vertical foregrip.

If the pistol is less than 26" overall, then a vertical foregrip makes it into an Title II NFA-classified AOW. If you add a vertical foregrip to a pistol with an overall length greater than 26", then it becomes a Title I "firearm" similar to a pistol-grip shotgun.
 
There is no maximum length for a pistol; you can have a pistol that's over 26" overall length. The change comes when you add a vertical foregrip.

If the pistol is less than 26" overall, then a vertical foregrip makes it into an Title II NFA-classified AOW. If you add a vertical foregrip to a pistol with an overall length greater than 26", then it becomes a Title I "firearm" similar to a pistol-grip shotgun.

Thanks for clearing that up, after all of the research I did when building mine, I don't know why I had that brain fart. You are, of course, correct, and I edited my original post.

Also, IMHO, if you are going over 10.5", you might as well go 16"+ and have all of the benefits of the round (velocity, yaw, etc.)
 
11.5" (carbine gas) if you intend to shoot different loads. Less than 11.5" you should have an adjustable gas block to tune it for your specific load - but it will probably be load sensitive. You don't really gain anything, terminal ballistics wise with a 12.5" bbl.

11.5" is the sweet spot. Hornady offers a load it developed specifically for 11.5" barrels - 75gr TAP SBR. See - http://www.hornadyle.com/products/rifle-ammunition/556-nato/75-gr-tap-sbr
 
I know a lot of guys, myself included, that just use a standard gas block, not adjustable, in 10.5" guns. Mine runs like a champ with whatever I feed it.
 
Shawn- from our 10" barrels, we routinely fired 55 grain, 62 grain, 75 grain, and 77 grain. No discernible difference in reliability.
 
For most of us, going 10.5" means the standard length carbine buffer, whether issue or formed as a non issue pistol buffer, will result in an overall length of less than 26" from end of buffer tube to barrel muzzle. That makes it a PISTOL under the law and the benefit is that it is handled as if it were a handgun when carry and use are applied. Your state and local laws are what you would deal with and that is important. If it's over 26" it may NOT be a pistol, but some other weapon. And that means it would likely be treated as a long arm under the local law
Just to be clear you seem to referencing a State law here not Federal law. Under Federal law it is a handgun regardless of length. PGO shotguns are "Firearms" by virtue of being smooth bore if they are over 26" OAL (and AOWs if less), Pistols are never "Firearms" unless they have a vertical front grip which renders them "Firearms" again if over 26" (and AOWs if less). There are states that limit either the OAL or barrel length of Handguns that can be carried concealed but it varies widely (and I think they are in the minority).

Mike
 
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