What barrel length for HD?

[Skribs]

I was just curious as to what people thought the best barrel length for HD is? Specifically I'm thinking of a .223/5.56 AR-15. I'm sure I'm opening a can of worms with this one, but it's something I wanted to see what people would say.

The shorter barrels, i.e. 14.5" or 16" would be easier to maneuver in the home, but longer barrels would have less flash/noise. Both should easily reach the muzzle velocity required for good terminal effects with standard 5.56 ammo.

 

[Naybor]

I think you are correct on using the shorter barreled weapon. I may be wrong, but I think anything under 16" will require a $200 government tax stamp. The .223 is a very good choice.

I use for HD a 12 ga. double barrel coach shotgun w/20" barrels. I also have by the bedside electronic earmuffs that will enhance my hearing while stopping/easing gunshot sounds. This way I get the "shock and awe" of a short barrel 12 ga. muzzle blast while able to keep my hearing.

IMHO, HD = short barrel. Range work = longer barrel.

 

[Sam1911]

I really can't imagine giving much weight to the slight increase in muzzle blast that might come from the difference between a 16" and an 18" or 20" barrel.

Everyone makes a big deal about it, of course, but the truth is that firing a rifle indoors is a bit uncomfortable, period. Firing a shorter rifle indoors might be 3% worse, but not incapacitatingly worse.

I'd rather gain the manuverability and speed of the shorter barrel, personally. I've done house-clearing type practice and competition with everything from pistols to, to SBRs & shorty submachine guns, AK and AR carbines, 20" barreled shotguns, and even full-sized FALs. All the rifles are loud, but in the moment it just won't matter much.

Go with something you can run quickly and that you can move with.

 

[Bobson]

If its a dedicated HD rifle, a 10" SBR with a suppressor is about as ideal as it gets, IMO.

The problem is, if you're willing to go that route for two stamps, a pistol-caliber SBR with a suppressor becomes much more appealing, and you need to make up your mind. I'd definitely opt for the latter.

 

[benEzra]

I prefer 16", with a good flash suppressor. It's short enough to be handy (especially with a lightweight barrel and adjustable stock), but not so short that you get into the blast and flash you get with 14.5" and shorter barrels. Ballistics are still pretty good with 16" as well.

Of course, if sound suppressors are on the table, then shorter might be just as practical, but I think 16" is a good length for the non-NFA route.

I may be wrong, but I think anything under 16" will require a $200 government tax stamp. The .223 is a very good choice.

You can go shorter than 16" if a muzzle device is attached that brings the overall barrel length to 16" or greater. Meaning that you can run a 14.5" barrel with a permanently attached Vortex or other sufficiently-long flash suppressor, so that the overall barrel length is comparable to a 16" barrel with no muzzle device. A 16" barrel with flash suppressor is going to be around 17.5" overall, but the FS is a very worthwhile accessory on an HD carbine IMO.

 

[gotigers]

I am wanting to build a 300BLK SBR for the same purpose. 8 to 10 inch barrel with a suppressor. 300BLK was designed for very short barrels and suppressors. Same bolt, mags, etc as my 223 ARs. I will go the NFA Trust route for the stamps.

If i were building a HD 223 i would go the SBR (10" to 12.5") and suppressor route. It will be at least a $1000 upgrade, but worth it. If that is not possible, i would go 14.5 with a perm attached FH. Also a collapsable stock is a must. 14.5 with the stock collapsed is a fairly short rifle.

 

[Skribs]

I am not planning on going NFA at this time. That's down the road when I can better afford it.

 

[walking arsenal]

A 20" barrel AR-15 is roughly the same length as an 18" barreled shotgun.

So, if 18" is short enough on a shotgun then 20" should be short enough on an AR.

However if you can go carbine length why not?

 

[Skribs]

So, if 18" is short enough on a shotgun then 20" should be short enough on an AR.

18" isn't short enough, it's just what they'll let me do.

 

[SpentCasing]

i use a 16" for my HD AR.I chose this for the lil extra MV the 16" gives me and because I like midlength gas system over cabine length on a 16" bbl and because I can change muzzle device whenever the mood suits me. I also have a 20" A2 that I could use if I had to but the 16" sure is handy indoors. If I do another AR build itll be a 14.5" carbine-gas, but Id recommend a 16" middy if its your 1st AR.

 

[boricua9mm]

Mine is a 14.5 with pinned Phantom FH. Shorter barrels are easier for negotiating corners indoors. With a good modern FH, the flash isn't much worse than a 16", if at all. Vortex and Blackout flah hiders are even more effective than what I'm using. Any differences in velocity are negligible at HD ranges, unless you live in Tony Montana's mansion.

I wouldn't use a brake if flash and muzzle blast are of concern, and that includes the Battlecomp, which is considered one of the best. Hiding the flash and directing blast away from you seems to make more sense.

 

[helotaxi]

The problem is, if you're willing to go that route for two stamps, a pistol-caliber SBR with a suppressor becomes much more appealing, and you need to make up your mind. I'd definitely opt for the latter.

More appealing in what way? The rifle brings more energy and and has been shown less likely to overpenetrate. Guys that go into CQB for a living have abandoned the submachinegun in favor of rifle caliber carbines for a reason.

 

[Skribs]

More appealing in what way? The rifle brings more energy and and has been shown less likely to overpenetrate. Guys that go into CQB for a living have abandoned the submachinegun in favor of rifle caliber carbines for a reason.

Because if I'm going for a suppressed weapon, subsonic is the best route. If I'm going subsonic, the pistol caliber will carry more energy.

 

[helotaxi]

Only if you can find a pistol caliber that's shooting a 220gn bullet subsonic. And the difference made by the suppressor isn't hardly limited to subsonic ammo.

 

[Skribs]

I should have said "will make a wider hole", I'm going to use the excuse that I had just got home from work and my brain was half dead. Although now that I think about it, a tumbling rifle round might still have the advantage there...

Anyway, I realized today that when I do go for a rifle over a shotgun, it will be when I have a greater amount of funds available than I do now (for reasons other than just the cost of the platform), and that I might as well go with a suppressed SBR at that point in time.

 

[justice06rr]

I suggest a barrel anywhere from 8.5-11inches. 5.56NATO is great, but look also at 300Blackout as a close alternative since it uses all AR parts except the barrel.

If you do not want to go the SBR/NFA route, I highly recommend possibly building a pistol AR. I have fired a pistol AR in 5.56 before and it very fun to shoot, not too hard to manipulate granted it has a large muzzle flash and slightly less accuracy. But for HD purposes, it will give you the benefit of maneuverability and lightweight.

As an example I'm currently building a lightweight pistol AR (my 3rd AR build) for HD. I'm going with a 8.5-inch CMMG barrel in 5.56/.223, a Yankee Hill diamond quadrail to mount a flashlight and front sight, and I already have the complete polymer lower from ATI.

 

[chaser_2332]

leave class 3 out of self defense. Beleive me im all for sbr's and supressors but i dont want them involeved in a self defense shooting. For self defense a stock firearm shooting off the self defence ammo will be more than suffiecent. Why give lawyers and jury who dont understand the usefulness of the class 3 equipment more fuel to add to the fire.

 

[Skribs]

For self defense a stock firearm shooting off the self defence ammo will be more than suffiecent. Why give lawyers and jury who dont understand the usefulness of the class 3 equipment more fuel to add to the fire.

1) Supressor = hearing protection. That's a very good reason, and actually the only reason I would use one for HD.
2) If I can legally do it, I shouldn't not do it for fear of what the jury might think. For every good prosecutor there's a better defense attorney. If I decide not to because of what the jury might think, then I've really lost the right to use it already.

I suggest a barrel anywhere from 8.5-11inches. 5.56NATO is great, but look also at 300Blackout as a close alternative since it uses all AR parts except the barrel.

That's what I was thinking, after reading some posts here. If I were just to go with a 14.5" AR, I'd just go 5.56, but I like the idea of a 10" suppressed 300Blackout.

 

[chaser_2332]

im not arguing that fact skribs, i pretty much agree with you. I have supressors.....well will have a few when atf gets on the ball, and im all for them. It is sad that gun owners has to think about these things but i do feel its worth thinking about.

 

[Skribs]

It is sad that gun owners has to think about these things but i do feel its worth thinking about.

Yep, I've thought about it, and I realize that as long as I'm not breaking the law, or pushing the law (i.e. OCing with a drawn long gun while walking laps around a bank parking lot), and I'm polite and respectful to people, I don't see there likely to be a problem.

 

[Sam1911]

Yep, I've thought about it, and I realize that as long as I'm not breaking the law, or pushing the law (i.e. OCing with a drawn long gun while walking laps around a bank parking lot), and I'm polite and respectful to people, I don't see there likely to be a problem.

And as long as you don't have to shoot anyone with it.

As Dr. Meyer has shown in studies he'd conducted, when a jury has to decide about the rightfulness of someone's actions, the specific gun they used, and anything at all out of the ordinary about it, can greatly affect the outcome of their deliberations.

While I agree wholeheartedly with both the right and the wisdom of using suppressors and short firearms for defensive purposes (i.e. -- use the best tool for the job) we simply have to understand that a prosecutor is going to tell 12 average Joe/Jane soccer moms, dentists, grandmothers, ministers, accountants, hairdressers, carpenters, and whomever else sits on your jury, "The accused used a SILENCER to KILL poor mister uninvited guest! Just like a mob hit man!."

You can have a great and logical counter to that statement, but you can't MAKE them be comfortable with your choice of gun. If they think you are a "thorougly dangerous man" with a killer's weapon, you're going to have a rough go of it.

...

But hey, not all shootings go to trial, right?

 

[C-grunt]

You guys need to move man. Here in Az if its ruled a good shoot you dont go to trial. A good shoot is if a reasonable person would believe their life or the life of someone else is in danger. Recently they added that someone breaking into your house is considered a reasonable fear all by itself.

My dream HD AR is a Colt Commando with a shorty suppressor like the Ops Inc mini.

 

[Sam1911]

Here in Az if its ruled a good shoot you dont go to trial. A good shoot is if a reasonable person would believe their life or the life of someone else is in danger. Recently they added that someone breaking into your house is considered a reasonable fear all by itself.

A "good shoot" is never a "good shoot" until someone ELSE decides it is.

 

[gotigers]

As gun owners we always have to be worried about liability.

But.... as Skribs said, a suppressor is for hearing protection. I don't want to be deaf, if God forbid, i have to use my AR in the house. Odds are it will never be needed, but i would like to hear for the rest of my life. No different than putting a light on an AR. It gets the job done as safe as it can be done. Training and the right tools.

 

[chaser_2332]

It is different than a light, a light is not a NFA regulated item. In a jury eyes a supressor isn't any different than having a full auto setting next to your bed. Same regulations and process to get one.