Best bolt action military rifle...ever.

[tarosean]

I'm not into old stuff. This was issued to Canadian Rangers in 2017.

View attachment 1130702

Was this ever available in the states?
I know they sell the T3X here just never seen one with irons.

 

[KansasTrapper77]

My first vote went to the Enfield. At its peak the sun never set on the British Empire, around 1913, smack in the middle of the the Enfield usage. Something to be said for that. 10 round magazine, rapid fire rate, sloppy chambers designed for use in inhospitable climates. One of the reasons it’s such a bear to reload for. I’d argue the pinnacle Enfield is a No.4 Mk1. The iron sights are superior.

2nd vote is the 98 Mauser because well half the things people have suggested were to some extent copies of the Mauser. So If I vote Mauser I voted for half the list.

 

[.38 Special]

1) "Pretty" counts for NOTHING!! Cosmetic beauty is NOT to be mentioned or considered....I will serve up as my entry...The Japanese Type 99 Arisaka.

 

[dogtown tom]

Mauser..........specifically the 1909 Argentine Mausers.

 

[Charlie98]

2nd vote is the 98 Mauser because well half the things people have suggested were to some extent copies of the Mauser.

That's kind of my thought.

I understand 'adaptability' was not in the OP's requirements... but perhaps it should have been.

 

[tark]

Oh, I dunno....a K98 firing that super hot Warsaw Pact MG42 ammo from the 80s might take the cake for milsurp muzzle energy.

If that ammo really did exist, I'm pretty sure it wasn't for use in a K-98.

 

[tark]

The other being the Winchester M70.

I believe Winchester actually did manufacture a handful of Model 70 Infantry rifles.

 

[BreechFace]

I believe Winchester actually did manufacture a handful of Model 70 Infantry rifles.

Correct, just not widespread by any means. Marine rifleman Carlos N. Hathcock II brought some fame to the M70, and the M70 was also utilized in the Vietnam War.

But it was an opinion poll, thus my opinion.

 

[tark]

I about spit my coffee seeing the Carcano on there. I have one for the historical nature but man are they terrible.

Perhaps not as bad as history's light would show them. They were accurate enough for their intended purpose. They were rugged and the Carcano round was as good as the other 6.5s. Frank DeHaas detested them as a candidate for sporterization, but he did say that the rifle was a good military rifle.

Remember, the Italians lost fights because of poor troops, not poor rifles.

 

[BreechFace]

Perhaps not as bad as history's light would show them. They were accurate enough for their intended purpose. They were rugged and the Carcano round was as good as the other 6.5s. Frank DeHaas detested them as a candidate for sporterization, but he did say that the rifle was a good military rifle.

Remember, the Italians lost fights because of poor troops, not poor rifles.

Probably right, but they are still in my mind one of the worst of WWII.

 

[tark]

Marine rifleman Carlos N. Hathcock II brought some fame to the M70, and the M70 was also utilized in the Vietnam War.

I'm not talking about Hathcock's rifle. That was a sporting Model 70. Winchester's military rifle was a full stocked, out to near the muzzle and had both a cutout for clip charging and a bayonet lug.

 

[tark]

The early Type 99s were quite well finished and fitted. About on par with the average Mauser of the same time period. As the war went on quality went south. You can say that for just about any country during WW II.

 

[BreechFace]

I'm not talking about Hathcock's rifle. That was a sporting Model 70. Winchester's military rifle was a full stocked, out to near the muzzle and had both a cutout for clip charging and a bayonet lug.

Was this when Winchester was trying to break into the m1903 towards the end of WWII? I think there were something like 500 made, but the US didn't want to divest of the logistical support that the m1903 was afforded with parts, accessories, etc.

I don't know if I've ever seen one of those just read about them (maybe?), do you have a picture?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Perhaps not as bad as history's light would show them. They were accurate enough for their intended purpose. They were rugged and the Carcano round was as good as the other 6.5s. Frank DeHaas detested them as a candidate for sporterization, but he did say that the rifle was a good military rifle.

Remember, the Italians lost fights because of poor troops, not poor rifles.

Rommel spoke quite highly of the long-suffering Italian infantry- at least their performance in N.Africa anyways.
They lost battles because of poor tanks, poor aircraft, poor logistical support- but most of all poor leadership, both military and political.

 

[tark]

Behold, the Winchester Model A bolt action military rifle. Not a model 70, obviously, as it dates to 1914. It was developed by T.C. Johnson. It was a hybrid , with features from the Mauser and the Springfield. And it was a takedown design!!

They also made a Model B and a C . The model B is almost a dead ringer for a 1903, probably because it used the front half of an 03 stock, along with 03 sights. The Model C featured aperture sights mounted at the rear of the receiver. Both the B and C had 1917 front sights, complete with the large protective ears. They were takedown rifles as well.

Winchester actually made a fair number of them in different calibers, including ten Model C's chambered in 7.62X54 for the Russians. These were re-named the Model D. Some in 7mm were sent to Spain, and some 6.5mm guns went to Portugal. Winchester was trying to get into the Military market. Everybody said "NO" so Winchester said "screw this" and went back to sporting rifles. The Cody Firearms Museum has examples of all three on display.

 

[Roverguy]

Perhaps not as bad as history's light would show them. They were accurate enough for their intended purpose. They were rugged and the Carcano round was as good as the other 6.5s. Frank DeHaas detested them as a candidate for sporterization, but he did say that the rifle was a good military rifle.

Remember, the Italians lost fights because of poor troops, not poor rifles.

And, in reference to one of your other criteria, the Carcano was an easy and inexpensive rifle to manufacture which, at its inception, was a very important quality for young Italy, not exactly at the cutting edge of the Industrial Revolution. And, for an infantry rifle, sufficiently accurate and well-suited to the smaller framed southern European soldier.

As to Italian performance in WWII, I wouldn’t necessarily ascribe lackluster results to the troops. Their fathers fought well and hard in WWI.But in WWII, they were often poorly equipped in terms of logistics and technology, bar the Navy, very poorly led by fascist lackeys and aristocrats appointed for their political reliability rather than military ability, and in service to a world class d-bag who also lacked military ability.

 

[tark]

Here are the B and C models. Sorry about the poor pics. The B really does look like a 1903 Springfield.!!!

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

The Irony is that when Italy entered WWII it had the most combat experience of any of the Great Powers, the Italo-Ethiopian War, their forces in the Spanish Civil War, their numerous colonial campaigns. But fighting against early 19th Century equipped opponents. tribesmen, led them to draw the wrong conclusions, led to delusions of grandeur, thought their tactics and equipment were fine, etc.
Surprised no one mentioned the M1895 Mannlicher. For all their reputation for ineptness
the Dual Monarchy fought to the end, straight pull rifles are either dismissed as flawed-the Ross, e.g. or lacking in combat usage-the Schmidt Rubins, e.g. and have not been copied but the M1895 served well.

 

[lysanderxiii]

This should start a good brawl. Here are the rules:
<stuff>

The Magazine Lee Enfield series, obviously.

The basic design lasted the longest in uninterrupted service by the infantry of it original country of origin, 1888 to 1991, 103 years.

The Russians may have pulled a few Mosins out of warehouses recently, but they were not regularly issued from the 1960 through 2022, so their service is interrupted by about 50 years.

 

[lysanderxiii]

A very good choice, but in my opinion the chrome bore of the 99 gives it a slight edge.

It is true that the Japanese chromium plated the bores of the Type 99s, however, they were forced to do this due the very poor quality steel available for barrels. US testing of these barrels during the war showed that without the chromium plating, the barrels would have had very short lives, 2,000 to 3,000 tops. With the bore plated Aberdeen figured the rifles could just barely US minimum service life.

The fact that the machine guns, both ground and aircraft, did not get chromium plated barrels, but have better alloyed steel, shows that the chromium plating is not really all that and a bag of chips. And I don't think it gives the Type 99 any kind of "edge". It is also very thin, 0.00005", and no i did not put in too many zeros.

 

[.38 Special]

The early Type 99s were quite well finished and fitted. About on par with the average Mauser of the same time period. As the war went on quality went south. You can say that for just about any country during WW II.

Oh, I'm not knocking you or the gun. I just got a kick out of you prefacing everything with a warning not to factor in appearance, and then producing the ugliest rifle ever made.

 

[DeepSouth]

Of the ones I have experience with the British Enfield is by far my favorite, the 1903 would be second, but there is just something about the old Enfield that I love. Maybe it’s the smell of cordite, if you have the right ammo.

 

[KansasTrapper77]

The Magazine Lee Enfield series, obviously.

The basic design lasted the longest in uninterrupted service by the infantry of it original country of origin, 1888 to 1991, 103 years.

I wish they weren’t so hard on brass. The Enfields are so charismatic due to the vast history behind them, and the legendary British riflemen.

 

[Varminterror]

Between the M40/M24, McMillan Tac300, AI, and Cheytac Intervention, I’d struggle. The McMillan, AI, and Cheytac are better rifles than the M40/M24, but obviously much more expensive for the task. The CheyTac is enough of a novelty such it might not deserve to be counted among the others either. Off the list, I instinctively want to like the McMillan the most, but have to acknowledge the AI’s are doing work too.

As much as I respect nostalgic whimsy, I haven’t seen anything prior to this modern fleet which can hang with them - which is largely evidenced by the fact we stopped using the older designs and have spent several recent decades using what we do.

 

[Elkins45]

M1903 gets my vote. It's a Mauser, but with a couple nice bonus features that make it just a little bit better.

I do like the P14/M1917, though. In pure military configuration, I'd take a 1917 over a K98.

This pretty much mirrors my thinking. A rifle is useless if you can’t hit something with it, and the aperture sights of the Springfield are vastly more conducive to hitting your target than the tiny open V on a Mauser. Not to mention the lack of windage adjustment.