Best First 22 Target, Histandard?

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mike240se

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Ok, i just joined a club that is primarily a 22 target range. My guns (ruger 9mm semiauto, s&w mod 10-5 .38spl, ruger 10/22, bushmaster predator) are not really suited for this club. So i have decided to get a .22 pistol.

First thing that came to mind was a Ruger Mark III. I love my ruger 10/22, great .22lr gun. I heard the mark II was awesome and so i figured the mark iii would be better or similiar. BUT after firing my friends S&W model 41, i am hooked on quality 22's!

So i did some shopping, the model 41 is out of my price range. I am looking to spend between $300 and $400 up front. i could then do some mods down the road. I was thinking of getting the target model mark iii, then add the voltquartsen trigger group down the road. i really like the bull barrel hunter but its a) not as long and b) out of my price range.

Then i found a hi standard supermatic citation (i think it was the citation) used at the local store for $399 (firm price no bargaining). it has an amazing trigger like the model 41, BUT a) its not new (i guess i am partial to new guns, who isnt) b) no replacement parts or hard to find i assume. c) not as many mods and upgrades and accessories as current production guns.... it seems like it was well maintained. (i am not too keen on the looks, but its how it shoots right!)

i also was considering a browning buckmark. the u22 neos is out cause my friend has one and i hate it. the walther p22 doesnt fit my hand at all. the smith is too expensive. they have no mark ii's.

so some expert 22 target shooting advice is appreciated! thanks!

mike
 
I have heard very good things about the Hammerli Trailside. No personal experience, though.

I would strongly consider used, were I you. Your price range kind of falls into no-man's land between decent pistols like the Ruger and target pistols like the Model 41. Used will allow you to get a better gun than the Ruger, Browning, etc.

Having that, an awful lot of competitive Bullseye shooters use worked-over Rugers. It's not a bad place to start.
 
If the HI Standard is one of the older used guns from the original company buy it. They are fantastic pistols. There is a company in TX that is making them again, but I have heard the quality is nowhere near that of the old guns.
 
For sheer accuracy, my old High Standard Citation Military is the best I have owned. Which includes S&W M41, Colt Woodsman, K22, and such oddities as a Walther Olympia.

High Standards are pretty durable and Wolff makes the small springs which are more often lost than broken.

They are utterly dependent on good magazines. There is no feed ramp, the magazine must deliver the round straight into the chamber without marring the soft lead .22 lr bullet. I have read but do not know for sure that recent production magazines are ok, but there are a lot of duds out there.
 
yeah tbe gun is in fact the original histandard company. its an old gun... probably from the 70's if i had to bet. i guess i am just partial to new, but i am not gonna let that deter me compltely.

then again there is the fun factor of modding the ruger.

i have not seen a trailslide at any gun store in nj.

so basically its between the ruger and the histandard as i thought. i guess the buckmark is more for plinking?
 
i went back to the store today. it is infact a histandard supermatic citation. its an original hi-standard gun, not one of the knock off new ones.

the rear sight has some blueing issues, it has weird spots on it. the gold trigger has rust on it.

the wear of the gun isnt bad, the chamber face of the barrel has the blueing worn off on about 1/3 of it, but not bad.

the guy was a lefty and some how removed the thumb rest, so if i am going to buy this gun i want to make sure i can get new grips. anyone know where to look for something like that?

also what would it cost to get the blueing fixed? any ideas on the trigger?

it only comes with 1 magazine, i hear they are hard to find and expensive, any truth to that?

it does in fact have a great trigger pull. top notch.

but all that being said, its $399. the ruger mark iii is $299. I can get the ruger mark iii brand new with a voltquartsen trigger kit for $299 + $110 for the trigger kit.

also the histandard is not tapped for a scope. i would like to maybe add a red dot, so i dont know how much it costs to add tappings.

the bottom of the barrel is tapped though, the guy said for weights.

the gun also is military model whatever that means, the serial number is milxxxxx.

thanks!
 
I would have to look real close at a Supermatic Citation that sells for only 400 bucks. That is a really really good deal that sounds to good to be true. Check to see what series it is. The 102, 103, 104, 106 and 107 series are excellent. The Numbered and ML series are good guns but they are starting to fall off from the quality of the earlier models. The SH models were made as the factory was closing down and cobbled together from existing parts. This is when the Citation II came about. Inspect a SH model very carefully and although they should function don't expect the quality like that of the previous models.

EDIT
You have a ML series gun. A military model means the grip angle is the same as the 1911. Other models had the slant grip like the Ruger .22 pistols. You can find parts at Gun Parts Corp. They are dependant on the mags and originals are the best but a little pricey. I will have to find the site that sells quality mags for it. Be prepared to still having to tune up the mags sometimes. There are barrel weights for it like you were told. IMO I would fix it up as the Ruger, no matter what you do to it, will not measure up to the Citation.
 
yeah it is a ml or mil serial. i cant believe its that good of a deal. they mentioned the guy dropped the price (its on consignment)

it was $499 he said, but it had sat since april so he dropped it $100, so they said he will not budge from $399. but if its really that great of a deal and i can get magazines and grips, then as long as i can fix the rusted trigger and blueing on the rear sight (the side things) then maybe i will go for it.
 
I have had a Hi Standard Victor for years. They shoot very good. I'd put it up against just about any stock Smith Model 41. They can be a little finicky about ammo as compared to the Ruger Mark III, but will have a much much better trigger and be more accurate.

I used to carry it in the woods hunting or plinking. I have a nice leather holster for it made by Bianchi. The holsters are pretty darn uncommon these days and difficult to find.
 
If you're SURE you want to do NRA Bullseye, a High Standard or a Model 41 would be great guns. I shoot an original High Standard.

If however, you're NOT sure and you don't want to spend a lot of money, a Ruger is the way to go. I started with a long, taper barreled MkII. MOST people I see starting out in Bullseye begin with a MkII, with a few using Browning Buckmarks, and the rest starting with expensive guns like High Standards, S&Ws and Walthers.
 
I would have to look real close at a Supermatic Citation that sells for only 400 bucks. That is a really really good deal that sounds to good to be true.
Click to expand...

Majic's right about this: the deal does seem too good to be true. But, on rare occasions sometimes real "deals" are there to be had (how many times have all of us at one time or another not regretted snapping up what later turned out to be a "deal of a lifetime" because we were either too sceptical or -more likely-just didn't have the money at the time).

If this is a sound pistol mechanically and only has the cosmetic blemishes as you described, GO FOR IT!
 
A little surface rust or blue wear is a none issue if it operates.
I bought one used in 1978 and sorta retired it last year.
Parts are available and after market barrels are available that are drilled for scopes mounts.
I bought a LPS ? brand barrel that is much lighter then stock, so you can add a dot sight and keep the weight down.
Magazines are available and getting them tuned is not too hard if the slide to frame fit on the pistol is good.
Only downside is operating the slide in case of a missfire with a scope mount. I have admittedly weak fingers and hands, it might be a none issue to others.
The rear sight gets in the way of grasping the slide. The sight can be removed, but its a PITA.
 
I would say buy the High Standard. I bought one new in the early to mid 70's. It was made by the old company in Hartford Conn. The thing still runs strong, & is very accurate. I heard a nice one is near the $800.00 mark now. I don't know if that's true or not, but I would be hard pressed to sell mine.
 
If you choose not to get it how about passing along the info on it. I have a nice 107 model and would love to have a beater to keep my 5 inch barrel on.
 
wow, sounds like i should snatch this thing up! well i think if its still there tomorrow i will. yes i will pass on the info if i dont get it. supposedly it started at 499, didnt sell so went to 399. they have another one for 569, but it comes with 3 mags and doesnt have the blemishes, but looks shot more.

it looks like a trigger replacement from gun parts corp is $40, extra mags from them are $36 (it only comes with 1), grips are $60 though.

it sucks cause the guy is lefty so he took off the thumb rest some how.

is there anything else i can check on it to make sure it functions ok? it does have a 30 day warranty, any problems, bring it back they say.

the mag doesnt slide out easy, i am concerned about that being some kind of other issue. i could take pictures and post them, but then someone could snatch this thing while i am waiting!
 
High Standard is well respected, but I have a S&W Model 41 and I love it! I also prefer the styling. That said, don't get a MKIII whatever you do.
 
ok i went to another store today to see the hi standard they had. they had a hi standard victor in very nice condition, the one with rail on the top, and it had some weight added to the bottom of the barrel. it had one magazine and was in pretty good shape. better condition that the citation. the price was $499. the guy said he would knock it down to $449. i was about to buy it till i saw the serial number, it started with SH. I remembered what Majic said about the ones that start with SH, so decided to wait and see what you guys think. Plus they wouldnt give me any warranty at all.

so basically its the supermatic citation, serial number ML, $399. 30 days warranty.

or hi standard victor, serial number SH, $449. no warranty.

i have no idea how the two compare, which is why i decided to wait and see what you guys think. thanks

mike

ps. my other option is gonna be a new ruger mark iii. i really like the hunter, but might get the target bull barrel model blued. they had a target stainless bull barrel for $460. i can get the blued one for $360, which is more in my price range. the hunter at $517 is more than i want to spend with $15 nics and 7% sales tax.

they also had a nice browning buckmark with nice wood grips, nicely contoured for $450 or so. (not the $600 longer barrel model)
 
the supermatic citation, looks exactly like the one in the top of your picture with gold trigger, etc.
 
Like I said the SH models should (with the operative word being should) function just fine but they just don't have the quality in the fit and finish as the earlier models. Even the stocks look plain. Also the barrel removal system changed. The SH models have a hex head screw securing the barrel to the frame as the earlier models had a push button which required no tools for a barrel change. So should you decide to change barrels only the barrels for a SH will work. I have a SH series Victor that I got real cheap. I went over it with a fine tooth comb and shot the dickens out of it before forking over any money. It's a pretty decent shooter but just not very pretty. For a plinker I couldn't ask for anything more.
Now a SH can be a good shooter or made to be a good shooter but since you know nothing of High Standards my vote goes to the Citation with the cosmetic problems. I wish I had your luck in finding High Standards.
 
I had an early SS HS from TX. After a brick it had significant wear to the frame where the slide 'battered' it. I was using standard speed lr's too. One brick....

I ended up selling it for almost nothing to a guy who bought it as a curiosity.

I prefer the HS over the Ruger by a long way if they are the CT HS. I don't know about the later TX HS but my experience really soured me on the guns. If you choose the Ruger, first see if you can take it down and get it back together. Some can never get the knack of it.

Of the OP's choices, mine would be the Victor at $449 if it's from CT. That price actually seems low as do the other prices he's quoted. I wonder if there is a drop in HS collector interest.
 
yeah i heard the texas ones are terrible. i have made sure all the ones i have looked at are CT ones.
 
i am thinking of passing on the high standard. i think i prefer a new gun.

i am thinking of getting either a) the ruger mark iii with the 5 inch bull barrel, b) the ruger mark III competition target which is stainless with the flattened side 6 inch barrel with nice wood thumbrest grips.

or c) a browning buckmark. i looked at them today and like them alot. there was one with hiviz sights, and a real nice dark wood grip for $450. there was also one without hi viz sites but with a mounting rail on the top with rubber grips.

there was also one with a splattered barrel that was extra light weight alloy. it looked like it had a steel barrel with a alloy bull barrel tube around it.

any ideas on these new guns?
 
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