Best handgun for defense against mass shooting?

[Warp]

You're caught in a mass shooting and you can't escape the building without being trampled or run to safety. What concealed carry handgun do you want with you to potentially face off with a madman wielding an AR-15 or AK-47? Which handgun(s) that are able to be carried concealed do you think are the best choices to defend against a mass shooting?

I almost always carry either a Glock 19 or an HK VP9 right now. So, one of those

And hopefully not one of the times I settle for a smaller gun like a G26 with pinky extension.

 

[gbran]

If I'm stuck with a handgun, this is where I want hi-cap mags. Probably Glock.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

Generally speaking, a carry gun should be:

1) Carryable and concealable. This may, depending on the individual in question, impose certain limits on size.

2) In a service caliber (minimum 9mm/.38 Special.)

3) Holding as many rounds as possible.

But every gun is a trade-off between these things, so we have to make choices and try to find the right balance for our personal situation. I'd love to carry a 15-shot .45, but usually I carry a 5-shot .357 because deep concealment is a requirement for my particular circumstances.

But whatever you carry, I pray you never have to use the thing.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Why is everyone stressing hi-cap magazines? You are not going to come out on top in a prolonged firefight against a long-gun. Accuracy should always be the first consideration because all the ammo, velocity and round count in the world means nothing unless you hit what you shoot at.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

Because accuracy drops off under stress while shooting and moving at a target that is also shooting and moving. It may take a lot of rounds to make enough hits to stop the threat. People like to deride what they call "spray and pray" but in combat there are a lot more misses than hits.

 

[R.W.Dale]

If you boil this down to the basic premise that you are going to be in a firefight then in my opinion this starts to move into the realm of very high capacity handguns. Thinks like a fn5.7 or even a pmr30

You want to make the most out of the element of surprise but once past that at least having the option of suppressive fire would be highly desirable.

 

[Malamute]

Why is everyone stressing hi-cap magazines? You are not going to come out on top in a prolonged firefight against a long-gun. Accuracy should always be the first consideration because all the ammo, velocity and round count in the world means nothing unless you hit what you shoot at.

Because accuracy drops off under stress while shooting and moving at a target that is also shooting and moving. It may take a lot of rounds to make enough hits to stop the threat. People like to deride what they call "spray and pray" but in combat there are a lot more misses than hits.

In the Westgate Mall attack, Abdul Haji had a CZ pistol with one magazine (no spare) when he ran into the mall looking for his brother. He and others managed to get several hundred people out, the terrorists were eventually in the supermarket. He traded shots with one of the terrorists that had an AK (What, not instant death to confront someone with an AK with a pistol!? ) and managed to keep him bottled up in the supermarket while getting more people out of the stores near the market, as well as several women and children hiding under a display table literally right under the terrorists nose in the entrance of the store.

Yeah, it would have been good to have spare magazines, but he managed with what he had. He did in fact do much good exchanging shots with the terrorist even if not making hits at the time. Its tempting to seek justification for our opinions, but Abdul Hajis experience indicates that having a higher capacity gun can in fact have an advantage, even if not making direct hits. He was in the mall about 6 hours.

If you boil this down to the basic premise that you are going to be in a firefight then in my opinion this starts to move into the realm of very high capacity handguns. Thinks like a fn5.7 or even a pmr30

I think this is getting into straw man territory. You are making a supposition I haven't. Its a balance. I have zero interest in the micro caliber very high capacity guns, partly because their record of real life use isn't very good regarding terminal effect or so-called stopping power. 9s get into the reliable terminal effect range of power, while still giving decent capacity in a reasonably compact size gun. Its a balance. The tiny calibers aren't in that balance range.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

All that is fine but it's not the scenario the OP laid out 3 pages ago. Originally the question was which handgun you can conceal would be best if caught in a mass shooting. Right there it was a flawed scenario but 3 pages later the thread drifted as usual.

In a dark club full of frozen and fearful drunks you are not going to get into a prolonged firefight with a long gun and come out ahead. You will need an accurate handgun so when the shooter breaks into a bathroom where you are hiding you can take 2 or 3 quick close up shots to end the threat. Remember, this gun has to be very stealth because guns are banned in most nightclubs. Way to much TV and movies being referenced here!

I'm through here, have fun talking about this...

 

[Malamute]

In a dark club full of frozen and fearful drunks you are not going to get into a prolonged firefight with a long gun and come out ahead. You will need an accurate handgun so when the shooter breaks into a bathroom where you are hiding you can take 2 or 3 quick close up shots to end the threat. Remember, this gun has to be very stealth because guns are banned in most nightclubs. Way to much TV and movies being referenced here!

You have more confidence than I do about exactly how a situation would go down. I think accuracy and capacity can both be important factors.

I'm through here, have fun talking about this...

We'll probably keep veering off topic, as often happens.

 

[Warp]

Why is everyone stressing hi-cap magazines? You are not going to come out on top in a prolonged firefight against a long-gun. Accuracy should always be the first consideration because all the ammo, velocity and round count in the world means nothing unless you hit what you shoot at.

lol

Define "prolonged". How long do you take to fire 6-7 rounds, exactly?

Handguns are weak and ineffective as a general rule. Handguns are relatively hard to get hits with. Stress makes this much harder. You may need multiple hits per threat to stop them. You may run out of rounds from a smaller pistol, say 6-8 rounds, within a couple seconds.

 

[Sauer Grapes]

I'm sure whatever I have will be less than I want if going up against a lune with a rifle.

 

[mlw270win]

What every you have with you will certainly beat whats at home in the gun safe.

 

[goon]

There's actually way more chance that you'll be killed in a car accident than there is of being killed in a mass shooting. Your chances of dying by falling down are much higher than being killed by a mass shooter.

So I'd suggest wearing your seatbelt, wearing non-slip shoes, and carrying whatever you're comfortable with.

 

[BSA1]

Why is everyone stressing hi-cap magazines?

Because it is no longer safe to be unarmed outside of your home and Police are minutes away.

You are not going to come out on top in a prolonged firefight against a long-gun.

Based on what? You are ignoring use of tactics, cover, concealment and remaining calm to form a plan of a action. Determined resistance may well foil the plans of a terrorist / mass shooter who is planning on executing unarmed sheep.

Accuracy should always be the first consideration because all the ammo, velocity and round count in the world means nothing unless you hit what you shoot at.

Agreed but I may not be shooting directly at the attacker. With Police response being minutes away plus the Police getting organized before entering the crime scene suppressive fire that keeps the shooter pinned down in one location may allow for people to escape,reduce the number killed and wounded while allowing the Police time to respond and get organized.

There's actually way more chance that you'll be killed in a car accident than there is of being killed in a mass shooting. Your chances of dying by falling down are much higher than being killed by a mass shooter.

Which is a totally irrelevant comment. I am sure if you asked the three people that were killed and the other 14 that were wounded on February 25, 2016 if they thought they would be shot while at work.

 

[Warp]

Because it is no longer safe to be unarmed outside of your home and Police are minutes away.

What the heck are you talking about?

We are MORE SAFE now than we have been in DECADES. The violent crime rate and murder rate has been going down, and down, and down, for decades.

Stop buying into this bullcrap liberal media hysteria and do some fact checking and critical thinking.


And then try to keep these numbers in perspective. A bunch of people are having a hissy fit and just utterly beside themselves on we have to do SOMETHING because a week ago 50 people were killed. For crying out loud, last week the signs on the interstates in GA told us there were almost 650 roadway fatalities so far this year in GA alone. That's 650 deaths in half a year in one state...why aren't we doing something to reduce that? Because we most certainly could. Why aren't we? Because it doesn't currently fit a political agenda.

 

[GEM]

The video I saw of the Westgate Mall had the folks who entered, saying they were aware they had limited ammo and were worried about that.

Anyway - from all the debates, I think (worth what you paid for it), a 9mm Glock and an extra mag is a reasonable set point for carry if dress allows.

Also, practicing with the gun. As said many times, stress shots aren't that easy.

In a recent match, I saw three new shooters hit the no-shoot in a tight but close up shot. More power to them that they are learning. I also say a wide spread of hits on targets. Stress makes it worse.

 

[george burns]

I carry a hi-cap pistol on me whenever I leave the house, sometimes a backup in 9mm, like my PM9. Outside is a different story. I now take a Glock 19 or 26, with 2 mags plus those in the guns. So I have 50+ rounds ready to go as fast as you can pull the trigger and drop a mag. That's under a second, so in a sense I have an assault pistol. If I put the 31 rounder on either gun, I have the same amount of rounds as an AR, actually 1 more. In a situation like Orlando, It's pretty much who gets in the first clean shot. Like a fist fight. The only difference is if the bad guys had full body armor, which is a tough nut to crack. But not if there were a few guys shooting back.
I am eyeballing the CZ SP-01 with the 19 rounder. It's a sweet pistol. Unfortunately this is where we are now. Having a 380 or a 6 round single stack, with no spare mags, is fine for inside your house, or even the Gym, although having owned one, there were more guns in my gym than anyone would want to mess with sometimes, between the deputies and agents who worked out there. But it's still a soft target in some "Health Clubs" or SPA's.
I carry heavy whenever I am driving off my property to where there are going to be a lot of people. In my mind, a terrorist wants the most bodies available in one place to carry out his madness.
They aren't going to shoot up a place with no one there, so you are pretty safe in general if you are in a sparsely populated area, "other than a common thief". But you never know what you are driving into, when on the road either.
Perhaps a large traffic tie up, staged by the crazies would be a good way to shoot a lot of people who had no place to hide once they were trapped inside their cars, so who knows. That's why we talk about Truck guns. Let's face it we don't know where they intend to be, so perhaps having more, is better than less.

 

[armoredman]

Hmm what PISTOL would I like to have with me - this one.



Seriously, I do my best to stay out of places where that type of thing might be a problem, if I can, but if it does, I have a sidearm and spare mags that I can shoot reasonably well under optimal conditions, and hope to use at least adequately under sub-par conditions. And yes, there are concealed carry bags out there that will work well for the Scorpion, SIG MPX, AR pistol, AK pistol, etc, but I kind of doubt anyone here would be using one regularly. Never know.

 

[BSA1]

YOU are MORE SAFE now than YOU have been in DECADES. The violent crime rate and murder rate has been going down, and down, and down, for decades.

I corrected your comment.

1 person shot and wounded in Newton, KS., 1 person shot on the highway to Hesston, KS., 3 people killed and 14 wounded in Hesston, KS.

I lived in Newton and worked in Hesston for several years.

Two weeks later on March 11, 2016 Sheriff Deputies shot and killed a man who was pointing a rifle at passing vehicles on a highway.

I worked in Butler County for 20 years and have lived there for 15 years so far. We shop and travel in the County on a daily basis.

We had a serial killer that lived just down the road from us. We rode out horses by his house on a regular basis. My wife was considering hiring his daughter to babysit our kids. Facts are he broke into her home which sits on a major highway in broad daylight, strangled her and set the house on fire to try to destroy evidence. The crime went unsolved for several years until he suddenly confessed.

Stop buying into this bullcrap liberal media hysteria and do some fact checking and critical thinking.

Bullcrap liber media hysteria, fact checking and critical thinking Sir.

I posted links to two of the incidents that occurred this year not far from where we live.

For some reason Google has quit working but when I get it to work again I will post the link on our neighbor.

You Sir have no right to come on-line and lecture me about how safe I am.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Hesston_shooting

http://www.kansas.com/news/state/article65676197.html

Ah found the link;

Dang computer. It will not open the link. Victims name was Carol Mould, age 43, who was killed in 2004. Killer confessed in 2010. She lived about 4 miles from us.

 

[stevekozak]

There's actually way more chance that you'll be killed in a car accident than there is of being killed in a mass shooting. Your chances of dying by falling down are much higher than being killed by a mass shooter.

So I'd suggest wearing your seatbelt, wearing non-slip shoes, and carrying whatever you're comfortable with.

I bet everyone in that club would have agreed with you..........before 2 AM.....

 

[Goosey]

A lot of these mass shooters wear body armor. Omar Mateen tried to purchase body armor. Recall Mark Wilson who tried to intervene in Tyler, Texas. So probably an FN Five-seveN with Elite Ammunition's S4M or T6B. If armor defeats the bullet then any "stopping power" is moot. But how many people carry a Five-seveN?

 

[george burns]

Funny you mention that, I was looking at P90's this week for that very reason. Maybe the TCM if they get a gun that doesn't blow out your ear drums. That's the other "white meat", the body armor and the ear drum shattering noise you will undoubtedly blow your ear drums out with.
I am looking for a set of ear protectors that I can leave on, like kids with their I Phones. Maybe something that you just pull out of a neck holder.
We don't speak much about hearing protection, "maybe because half of us are half deaf already"
Of course I would rather be alive, but I would be pissed off about not being smart enough to plan for everything but my hearing.

 

[seeker_two]

What I would want? Hand grenades.

What I would have? LC9 or SD9VE....my usual carry choice.

What I want more of? Practice putting hits on target.

 

[hdwhit]

What concealed carry handgun do you want with you to potentially face off with a madman...

I don't believe there's a meaningful answer to that question.

You can't know the circumstances in which a mass shooter will strike; an Orlando nightclub, a Colorado movie theater, a Virginia College campus or a Jonesboro, Arkansas school so your choice has to be a compromise between the weapon that would be optimal for each of those situations individually.

Once you have thought of some compromise weapons you have to assess your ability to employ it against the shooter. Some relevant questions might be:

• What is your level of training and experience with shooting at someone who has the ability to shoot back?
• How many shooters are you anticipating?
• What is their level of the same sort of training and experience?
• Do you know from past experience (rather than wishful thinking) that when the shooting starts you will run towards the shooter (or at least stand your ground) thus making you a conspicuous target?

Since I believe there are too many variables to allow the choice of weapon to be optimized, I don't see any way to answer the question.

 

[Warp]

I lived in Newton and worked in Hesston for several years.

So, to recap, because there were a couple crimes in a town you used to live or work in, that is why:

Why is everyone stressing hi-cap magazines?

And also

Because it is no longer safe to be unarmed outside of your home and Police are minutes away.

As I said...we are safer now than we have been in decades. We have a lower chance of being victim of a violent crime or murder now than any time in the the past decades.

Everyone is not stressing "hi-cap" magazines because we are less safe.

Don't listen to the media. Don't listen to the news. Don't listen to the gun grabbers. They want you to believe we are less safe when we step out of the house, they want you to believe there is some kind of "gun violence epidemic". They are full of crap. We are safer and there is less "gun violence"