Worst-case concealed carry scenario?

[bestseller92]

What's the worst-case situation that you have envisioned encountering as a concealed weapon carrier? (And by "envisioned encountering" I don't mean that it's something you are paranoid about, just something that you've recognized as being a possibility, no matter how slight, at some point.)

For me it would be the mass-shooting nightmare, such as happened in a McDonalds in California in 1984 or a Luby's in Texas n the early 1990s. And now I guess I'd have to add Mumbai-style terror attacks to the list, since law enforcement experts seem to think that these types of atrocities will be attempted at some point here in the U.S I don't live in fear of these worst-case scenarios, but the very slight possibility of encountering one of these mass-shooting situations has always made me more apt to carry the biggest and most effective gun that I can effectively conceal, and to devote a portion of my practice to distances beyond 25 yards. As great as they are for their intended purpose, I don't believe a gun like a KelTec P32 or Ruger LCP would be much help if I ever had to defend myself or loved ones from a spree-killer popping away from across a large restaurant dining area. I realize that escape could potentially be the best option in a situation such as this, but I have been in many restaurants where one could be completely cut off from any exit, making escape impossible, and still face an antagonist from beyond 25 yards. Given a choice, I would prefer to carry a weapon that gives me a realistic chance of hitting a goblin at these distances, chambered for a caliber capable of putting said goblin down with a minimal number of hits. Does this level of armament guarantee that I would prevail in any such encounter, or be successful in putting the goblin down? Of course not, but it does give my skills a fighting chance.

What's your worst-case concealed carry scenario?

"...the cannons don't thunder, there's nothing to plunder, I'm an over-40 victim of fate."-Jimmy Buffett, "A Pirate Looks at 40".

 

[9mmepiphany]

The worst case we've had locally was a takeover of a electronics store by four armed gunman...I immediately stopped depending on a five shot revolver (without reloads) as a primary carry and had to think long and hard about a Star PD (.45ACP) which carried 6+1.

This is a fairly unusual number of BGs (due to their goals) and I think that three BGs in a business and one outside in a vehicle is more likely in a robbery situation...which is what I would most likely run into...this is based on many years of looking at local crime stats. To that end, I have standardized on a minimum of a 9mm carrying no less that 8+1 rounds. I also recommend that you carry a spare magazine.

Be aware that the best planned strategies are only good until first contact and a self-defense situation is usually very fluid

 

[22-rimfire]

There was an armed robbery of a Waffle House recently with four perps. That would be a little problematic for me with a 5-shot 38spl revolver assuming they stood and fought back. I doubt they would.

Generally the worst case scenario that I think about is when I have to do a job alone in a bad area. In that case, I usually carry two guns; one open carry with a reload and the other concealed.

 

[Usmc-1]

Dont be so sure that because you carry , you would actually get involved , many a man carrying , has been involved in a situation and didnt act (and theres nothing wrong with that) , the reason theres nothing wrong with that is because we are trained to "let others handle those problems" , the cops will tell you they are professionals and know how to handle these situations (20 years of law enforcement tells me otherwise) , just because the cops are cops doesnt mean they are anymore ready than you are , chances are if you practice everyday , your more ready than they are , just a fact , cops dont get to the range enough , and if you dont practice whats taught to you it wont happen the way its supposed (word to the wise "all LEO's in this forum , get to the range at least 3 days a week and practice, when the time comes you will be ready!)!
A good way to see things is , look in the mirror everyday and ask yourself how will I handle a certain situation , and always remember at the end of the scenario YOUR THE WINNER , if a situation comes up and you get nervous or unsure ,just sit and wait for "help" , if it looks like <deleted> about to hit the fan , you have to react , and that means "AIM CENTERMASS" and take him out! Good luck!

 

[BRE346]

Worst case? Standing alone in the open and out of bullets.

 

[EMC45]

Worst case scenario?....Someone shooting up the soccer field when my daughter's team is out there playing. I carry a J frame w/reload, but how far will I be able to shoot the thing?..............

 

[Unistat]

At a gas station filling up my car with my daughter in the car seat when 3-5 BGs walk up from different directions with guns already drawn.

A version of this actually happend to a friend of mine. Since it wasn't a worse case (3 guys, but only 1 with a gun and no kid in the car) my friend was OK. In fact, considering the crooks picked a guy who was a former Deputy Sheriff, who practiced martial arts since he was 12, was the son of a police detective, the nephew of the Chief of Police and the Mayor of the town, it was pretty much the worse case scenario for the BGs. They are very lucky my friend was not carring that day.

 

[mgmorden]

USMC-1: Good post.

With all things remember: your carry piece is there to defend your life (and that of others), not your wallet. If I'm the only one carrying and 4 men come into a Waffle House with guns, then it's almost a guarantee that all they want is money. Also, in a 1 vs 4 situation if I draw there's a good chance that if I do, I'll lose in the end.

Until they start talking about hostages or taking people in the back room, I'm not likely to draw if I think they just want some money before they dart. If you start a firefight in a crowded area out of a situation that wasn't likely to escalate to shots fired, then you've acted irresponsibly.

It's always about weighing what's happening, with likely best-case and worst-case scenarios.

 

[Trebor]

My absolute worst case scenario is an "active shooter" situation with multiple gunmen. Think Mumbai style attack. It's unlikely, but possible, so that's my worse case.

But, coming against multiple opponents in general isn't that unrealistic. Around here 3 man robbery teams are fairly common. It's not always a high value target like a bank or jewelry store either. We get 3 man teams that hit fast food places and stores.

EDIT: Typo - Changed to "coming against multiple opponents isn't that unrealistic." Left out the "un" at first.

 

[cwp3420]

In the city I live in a year or so ago four men held up a small Mexican restaurant at lunch time. The place was full and they had practiced what they would do. They got all of the money and appeared to be leaving. Then two of them began shooting the patrons. No one had a weapon with them and they killed about 4 people.

That was when I realized that a mouse gun would be useless against something like that. I went back to carrying my HK45CT, which holds 8 45ACP rounds. I also carry a 10 round magazine on my left hip.

When I was a LEO with the federal government, we were told to not engage anyone if no other person was being injured. If we were in a bank and it was robbed, we should be good witnesses and get all of the information we could. Of course, if they started shooting people we were told to engage at that time.

I still try to live by that rule of not engaging unless the perps open fire or began to hurt innocent civilians. However, if they come in for the money and they leave without incident, all the better.

 

[bestseller92]

I agree...as ccw holders we are not law enforcement officers and aren't trained or obligated, morally or legally, to stop robberies, etc. If people are being hurt or killed I believe I would have a moral obligation to step in if I could. But not to save or protect property. Far better to let the crime go down and be a witness later than risk escalating the situation into bloodshed.

As to the Mumbai-style terror attacks, Mas Ayoob wrote on his Backwoods Home magazine blog a few days ago that U.S. law enforcement expects such attacks to be attempted in the US. That's a frightening thought.

 

[Manco]

What's the worst-case situation that you have envisioned encountering as a concealed weapon carrier? (And by "envisioned encountering" I don't mean that it's something you are paranoid about, just something that you've recognized as being a possibility, no matter how slight, at some point.)

The worst scenario that I generally train for is several armed hitmen who are determined to kill me. That's not the worst imaginable scenario, but at the risk of sounding like a "mall ninja" I figure that it's somewhat more likely to happen to me than most people because of the threats somebody has been making against me. One part of me is in denial that these threats (now long-standing) are to be taken seriously, while the other part practices strings of double-taps against multiple targets at every available opportunity, just in case (that way it'll be natural if such a scenario ever actually occurs).

For me it would be the mass-shooting nightmare, such as happened in a McDonalds in California in 1984 or a Luby's in Texas n the early 1990s.

Mass killings are horrific events to be sure, but maybe some of them wouldn't be mass killings if the killer got plugged early on. If I see some nutcase randomly shooting people, then I would do my utmost to ensure that the next shooting victim will be him!

And now I guess I'd have to add Mumbai-style terror attacks to the list, since law enforcement experts seem to think that these types of atrocities will be attempted at some point here in the U.S

Now this is A LOT scarier, in my opinion--multiple gunmen working as a team and almost certainly more heavily armed than I am. In such a scenario I'd definitely bug out if possible, using my pistol only if I have no other choice. If I can't escape for some reason (maybe too many bullets flying around), then I'd barricade myself if possible and kill any terrorists who happen to find me. And if I get caught up in a hostage situation (which happened at least once in Mumbai, as I recall), then I'd comply as long as I'm not searched for weapons, and then I'll pop the bad guys when the right moment comes. It all depends on what my chances look like from moment to moment (i.e. the positions, postures, and situational awareness of the bad guys), and there are far too many variables to go over in this post. In such a scenario, in general I'd definitely take discretion over action whenever it would help me survive.

I don't live in fear of these worst-case scenarios, but the very slight possibility of encountering one of these mass-shooting situations has always made me more apt to carry the biggest and most effective gun that I can effectively conceal, and to devote a portion of my practice to distances beyond 25 yards.

It's good to think about worst-case scenarios ahead of time so you're at least somewhat prepared and less likely to become paralyzed while trying to decide what to do.

As for things like caliber and ammo capacity, my philosophy is always the same: use the largest caliber that you shoot well (if that's .22 LR, then so be it--I'd choose more hits delivered faster over bigger bullets), pack the highest-capacity weapon you care to carry, and bring along extra ammo if that's practical--don't go nuts for everyday carry, but having a little too much is always better than not having quite enough.

 

[catnphx]

My main concern is the crazed and most likely single shooter that is randomly killing people (i.e. Tucson or Lubys or McDonalds). To me, that is worst case.

I'm not usually putting myself in situations where I'd be an easy target so avoidance is a big part of my plan today ... keeping the odds of me getting involved in something somewhat unlikely. Again, its the single shooter situation that you never know about. Also, I watch everyone so it would be very hard and unusual for me not to be prepared for a normal crime situation (not saying it won't ever happen but I'm very situationally aware).

As for Mumbai-style terror attacks, well, I'll worry about that when it starts becoming a reality. It may be an eventuality but it would be extremely rare. If it does happen then I'll start thinking about it.

 

[DAP90]

For me, the worst case scenario is definitely a carjacking when I have my wife and son with me. He’s 3 and in a car seat. We currently have a 4 door sedan but are looking at a 4 door SUV.

The list of drawbacks is extensive; multiple weak points, blind spots and people to defend. There’s no cover, no maneuverability, no shooting lanes, bad draw position and it’s not fast enough to just race off and get away. If I do try and drive off and they decide to shoot they’re shooting through the backseat occupied by my son.

On top of all that there’s no way to exit quickly and get out of their way; I’d have to turn my back and bend down to get my son out (or crawl over the front to seat) and carjackers aren’t known for their patience. That’s a nightmare scenario if I ever heard one.

I have no idea how to defend against that.

 

[usmccpl]

Worst case is being on vacation and when I have to draw it aint to fight my way back to my rifle and shotgun. Most likely worst case though is out to get a pack of smokes at zero dark thirty and some speed freak or heroin addict comes in to rob the local convenience store.

 

[bestseller92]

DPotvin: is there any financially feasible way to add bullet-resistant rear windows and kevlar backseat panels to your vehicle? I'm legitimately asking because I have no idea about such things, but it sounds like it might be part of a possible answer to your scenario.

 

[txhoghunter]

My worst case? Being in a situation where I would actually have to use my gun.

Would I? Of course. But I don't ever want to be put into that position.

 

[DAP90]

is there any financially feasible way to add bullet-resistant rear windows and kevlar backseat panels to your vehicle?

I have no idea. Probably, but I imagine it’s on the expensive side. Despite that being my worst case scenario I doubt I’d justify the expense.

It would probably be better to drive a used car that wasn’t shiny and new or on the list of desirable cars to steal. That and stay out of neighborhoods where such things are more likely, be home at a reasonable hour, etc.

That doesn't address how I'd defend against a carjacking if it actually happened but as I said, I have no idea how to.

 

[skoro]

Worst case?

I'd think that being confronted by multiple armed assailants who are focused on you and not just shaking down some random group of folks who happen to be together at a store/restaurant would be the worst.

If you are the target of multiple gunmen, there's little that could possibly put you at a greater disadvantage.

 

[Pyro]

^
At that point I feel there isn't much else you can do.

 

[helitack32f1]

I would have to say the ones I think about are the mass murder, mall-type shootings. Also, I go to a large Church and it has occurred to me that it could be a target and I know the Pastor has been threatened by local loony types.

One of the main reasons I started carrying full time was a shooting awhile back that involved the deaths of six people on my delivery route. These included people next door to a customers house where I could have been delivering. then the shooter continued down the road and shot a motorcyclist at the gas station I go to all the time and then he continued down the freeway and shot people driving down the freeway.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/02/national/main4409150.shtml

This will most likely never happen again but it is a reminder that it can happen. I want the ability to have a chance of determining the outcome if need be and returning home to my family.

 

[evan price]

My worst-case scenario?

They run out of mint chocolate chip ice cream at the Dairy-Freeze.

Tasty, especially in midsummer.

 

[catnphx]

My worst-case scenario?

They run out of mint chocolate chip ice cream at the Dairy-Freeze.

Tasty, especially in midsummer.

And that is the kind of scenario that creates a crazed shooter situation (i.e Tucson, Lubys or McDonalds), which takes us back to my scenario. Full circle.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Worst case for me would be that I'm unable to shield my wife and twin daughters in the event of an attack. Not likely at home, but always possible in a public place.

It's a very scary thought, but one that I try to not over think. Still, like Monday, when mom left and had the stroller in her car. I decided to carry them both to the park (not walking yet), and it had occured to me that it would be nearly impossible to protect them from a vicious attack with both of my arms occupied. But then, the odds of that were far outweighed by being outside with them on a beautiful day, just enjoying the sunshine and watching them play in a nice neighborhood park.

But on that point, it changes your perspective a bit when you have helpless little ones to protect. I'm less likely to involve myself in a bad situation, but more likely to put myself in danger trying to protect them against an imminent threat than I would be if I were alone. Now, instead of trying to find cover for me, I am the cover for them.

 

[rogertc1]

I have been carring licensed concealed for 40 years. Never once have I had to pull my gun nor shoot anyone. Kinda fun to have a lotto fantasy however. I have always carried to defend myself and not play cop.