Best Way To Buy an M-1 Carbine?

[35 Whelen]

I checked out Royal Tiger's website. I thought those guns were getting a kind of bod rap, but when I actually look, I ca't find much negative about them.

As for their price being $100 over list, they have 21 carbines left and they were denied a license to import more. The fact that people didn't snap them up, however, tells me there must be something wrong with them.

I bought two of the cheapest Carbine's from RTI last summer. Wound up with a Standard Product and an Inland. The Standard was a Father's Day Special that cost $837.70 shipped to my door, the Inland I bought a couple of months later and it set me back $927.79, shipped. I love them both and have no intentions of selling them.

Don't poo-poo all the commercial models. The early Universals (pre-100,000 serial number) are reputedly good examples. I recently picked up one with a 5 digit SN that had been fired so little that the bluing wasn't even worn off the feed ramp. It is remarkably accurate for a Carbine.



One relatively unknown commercial example are the Israel Arms International's. You can read about them here. I bought one of those just a few weeks ago, one of the examples made after the company went teats up, and it's very well made. They turn up from time to time on Gunbroker.

35W

 

[AK103K]

You've definitely got a couple of good shooters there 35W.

Your 100-yard groups are about half of what all of my guns will/would do at 50. The three I have now will keep them all on an SR1 center at 100, and one of them just barely.

That's using the same 296 load and Hornady bullet you're using and shooting from prone.

Prior to the panic, I was getting bulk, jacketed 110-grain bullets from Everglades for a good price. They shoot OK, but I dont think they shoot as well as the Hornady's if you're trying for groups, which I dont do much of these days. Fine for most of how I shoot though, which is mostly offhand.

For a "light" gun, the Carbine is a pretty good offhand shooter.

 

[Rodfac]

35W: Do you have any problems with leading with that 311576 bullet? I've got both the 311259gc and 311410gc molds for my '03's but have lingering concerns about leading up the gas system on my carbines.

AK103: Tinkering with the rear action screw and fore end screw has made a big difference with my carbines. Full tight on the rear one and backed off about 1/2 a turn on the fore end really helped. I got a 3rd place finish in the first carbine match held at Perry a decade and a half ago with my Standard using the above tinkering & using the CMP's issue ammunition...it's a good shooter for sure.

Both of my current carbines (Standard & Inland) really like Ac#9 and most any fmj bullet. I'm shooting Jeff Bartlett's M1 Carbine bullet now, still have 2000 of them, and getting 1"+ groups out at 50 yds, off a rest. Anyway...great groups there, and with powders that I still have on hand. I like 13.5 Ac#9, 15.0 of 296, your 2400 load, and 14.5 of 4227 with any 110 gr fmj. Best Regards, Rod

 

[35 Whelen]

35W: Do you have any problems with leading with that 311576 bullet? I've got both the 311259gc and 311410gc molds for my '03's but have lingering concerns about leading up the gas system on my carbines.

AK103: Tinkering with the rear action screw and fore end screw has made a big difference with my carbines. Full tight on the rear one and backed off about 1/2 a turn on the fore end really helped. I got a 3rd place finish in the first carbine match held at Perry a decade and a half ago with my Standard using the above tinkering & using the CMP's issue ammunition...it's a good shooter for sure.

Both of my current carbines (Standard & Inland) really like Ac#9 and most any fmj bullet. I'm shooting Jeff Bartlett's M1 Carbine bullet now, still have 2000 of them, and getting 1"+ groups out at 50 yds, off a rest. Anyway...great groups there, and with powders that I still have on hand. I like 14.5 of 296, your 2400 load, and 14.5 of 4227 with any 110 gr fmj. Best Regards, Rod

Rod the 311576 mold is pretty new to me. I mostly cast/use the RCBS 30-115-SP, which has been a good performing bullet for me.



These typically weigh 116-119 grs. and using the same powder charges I use for 110 gr. FMJ's velocities are pretty much identical as is accuracy. I get exactly zero leading with either of these. No problems with lead in the gas system either. I do sometimes shoot a little 103 gr. plain base SWC over 6.0 grs. of Unique for about 1500 fps.



It leads just a little ahead of the throat, but not bad. I feel sure this problem could be alleviated by water-quenching the bullets, I just haven't gotten around to it. But again, no problems with the gas system.

35W

 

[Rodfac]

Thx 35Whelen, that RCBS 30-115-SP, in the picture looks mighty similar to Lyman's 311359GC. I'll have to give it a try. Sized to 0.310" you think? Rod

 

[rabid wombat]

You know that in the early 60s (or so) some UDT gents egressed from a submarine, and placed a weird listening device directly onto a Russian cable on the seabed, in the western Pacific?
Our intell. were able to listen to simple, non-scrambled Russian being spoken.

documented here: https://www.amazon.com/Blind-Mans-B...efix=The+untold+stories+of+sub,aps,174&sr=8-1

wild stories!

 

[35 Whelen]

Thx 35Whelen, that RCBS 30-115-SP, in the picture looks mighty similar to Lyman's 311359GC. I'll have to give it a try. Sized to 0.310" you think? Rod

@Rodfac the 311359 casts a pointed bullet, the 30-115-SP pretty closely matches the profile of the 110 gr. FMJ, so it pretty closely matches the trajectory as well, at least to 200 yds., when velocities are the same. I size mine to .309" but if a .310" die were all I had, I wouldn't hesitate to use it. There's a fella on the Cast Boolit site (Larry Gibson) that has had really good luck with the 311359. Look up his posts.

35W

 

[clanhanson]

I've purchased a few rifles from Royal Tiger Imports (not an M1 Carbine, not sure if they were stored in nicer conditions) and haven't been too happy with the delivered product. The rifles were generally filthy (expected) but also with mechanical issues not expected based on the website description. One was so rusted that the pins had basically welded themselves to the receiver, and the stock looked like sandblasted driftwood full of cracks, bugs, and grease. Its safety was also nonfunctional despite being "function tested." They said it was a "shooter" so it couldn't be returned. One rifle was okay but still had cracks despite the description saying the rifles would be crack-free. Hopefully the carbines are nicer!

 

[Rex in OTZ]

I've often lamented not buying a carbine from DCM "back in the day." They have since risen to a price I have refused to pay. (I once owned a Universal copy; It was a POS, so I sold it.) I put it in for the lottery at CMP when they had 50 of them back in 2015, but didn't get drawn. I believe it may be now at any price, or never, at any price.

However, there aren't a lot of those guns in my area. I rarely see them come up for sale. I'm too far away to drive to another town or state to buy a gun. I have been burned so many times on eBay that I hate to consider online auctions.

What are my best options for buying a carbine, probably from out of state?

Find a gundealer that travels the gunshow circuit, those guys network like crazy at shows and can usually locate what your looking for year, condition and price range with a finders fee attached.

 

[Speedo66]

Take a look to see the “warehouse” in Ethiopia where those guys found their M1 carbine inventory...

View attachment 975807 View attachment 975808 View attachment 975809

He's wearing gloves, I think with the dust and mold I see there, especially coming from Africa, I'd be wanting a hazmat suit and a respirator.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Find a gundealer that travels the gunshow circuit, those guys network like crazy at shows and can usually locate what your looking for year, condition and price range with a finders fee attached.

That's a really good idea. However, we only have 1-2 gun shows per year here, all of them are very small. And I doubt anyone travels out of state for gun shows. However, I could take that idea and translate to LGS. I could go visit every LGS in town and leave my name & contact info so that if a Carbine ever comes in, they'll know they already have a buyer.

 

[MosinT53Hunter]

Just to note, at Royal Tiger Imports, the reviews are great only because that company purges any reviews that are less then 2 stars and lower. I have read many a story of people who have left lowly reviews, then hours later, they mysteriously disappear from the record.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I've purchased a few rifles from Royal Tiger Imports (not an M1 Carbine, not sure if they were stored in nicer conditions) and haven't been too happy with the delivered product. The rifles were generally filthy (expected) but also with mechanical issues not expected based on the website description. One was so rusted that the pins had basically welded themselves to the receiver, and the stock looked like sandblasted driftwood full of cracks, bugs, and grease. Its safety was also nonfunctional despite being "function tested." They said it was a "shooter" so it couldn't be returned. One rifle was okay but still had cracks despite the description saying the rifles would be crack-free. Hopefully the carbines are nicer!

.....aaaaaaaand that's what I thought. Like I said, the fact that these weren't snapped up in a hurry at those prices speaks volumes.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Just to note, at Royal Tiger Imports, the reviews are great only because that company purges any reviews that are less then 2 stars and lower. I have read many a story of people who have left lowly reviews, then hours later, they mysteriously disappear from the record.

I suspected as much. Statistically speaking, it is unlikely for anyone or anything to receive nothing but perfect reviews.

 

[MosinT53Hunter]

I suspected as much. Statistically speaking, it is unlikely for anyone or anything to receive nothing but perfect reviews.

Classic Firearms are also well known to purge the record on their reviews fairly often.

 

[35 Whelen]

I'm vendors sometimes have to purge their reviews I'm sure. For every time a seller sends out a substandard product such as an M1 Carbine, there will be a buyer who simply cannot be pleased.

It's very widely known the conditions under which the RTI Carbine's were stored for decades, there are photos and videos on RTI's website. Yet I've seen reviews in which buyers complained because the Carbine they received was dirty and the stock was dinged up!! Others really expected to get an "Unissued" example in perfect condition out of the pile. Amazing...

Caveat emptor.

35W

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Classic Firearms are also well known to purge the record on their reviews fairly often.

Thanks for the tip. That's another company I've often hemmed-hawwwed around buying from and ended up not buying.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I'm vendors sometimes have to purge their reviews I'm sure. For every time a seller sends out a substandard product such as an M1 Carbine, there will be a buyer who simply cannot be pleased.

It's very widely known the conditions under which the RTI Carbine's were stored for decades, there are photos and videos on RTI's website. Yet I've seen reviews in which buyers complained because the Carbine they received was dirty and the stock was dinged up!! Others really expected to get an "Unissued" example in perfect condition out of the pile. Amazing...

Caveat emptor.

35W

Part of that may be that we've been spoiled by DCM (CMP). Indeed, if were to buy one of RTI's carbines, I would expect, at a minimum (and regardless of price) that the rifle be thoroughly cleaned, inspected, and test fired. No one should be selling malfunctioning guns unless they're clearly marked as such. Judging by the Forgotten Weapons youtube video, they're obviously not cleaned, and, if guys are getting guns that have functioning issues, then they're obviously not test firing them.

Then again, a $1200, perhaps I'm way off the mark. If carbines everywhere in the US are selling at close to 2k, then...shrug...I guess it is what it is. This might be the only way some working class Joe could ever afford one. I certainly know the feeling.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

On a related side note, guys, what do we think the price will be on these guns in 5-10 years? We've watched the price climb for the past 20-3 years already. When I think about current purchase prices, I also think about inflation rates. "Money in the bank" isn't profitable anymore. (My bank's rates are far less than inflation.) I'm almost considering "storing" my my money in a higher quality carbine as opposed to storing it in the bank. (This is diametrically opposed to my life long belief that guns are definitely not an investment.)

 

[AK103K]

I think right now, the market is in panic mode, and the Carbine prices youre seeing are just bringing that premium.

Of the 5 I bought over the past couple of years, the lowest I paid was $800 and the highest around $1100. The one Winchester, a Blue Sky, was at $1300, but I kept bitching about that barrel stamp and he ended up knocking $300 off.

I would think once things settle back down, youll see the prices subside as well. At least thats whats happened historically. They may not come back to what they were, but they will probably come close. Of course, what happens with Biden and any of thier silliness, is a whole other critter, at least for some things.

Ive been trying to avoid buying anything now, unless its just something I gotta have, and its not out there price wise. Im waiting for things to calm down, and all those panic buys to start showing back up in the shops, or around town by word of mouth, and at bargain prices.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

I think right now, the market is in panic mode, and the Carbine prices youre seeing are just bringing that premium.

Of the 5 I bought over the past couple of years, the lowest I paid was $800 and the highest around $1100. The one Winchester, a Blue Sky, was at $1300, but I kept bitching about that barrel stamp and he ended up knocking $300 off.

I would think once things settle back down, youll see the prices subside as well. At least thats whats happened historically. They may not come back to what they were, but they will probably come close. Of course, what happens with Biden and any of thier silliness, is a whole other critter, at least for some things.

Ive been trying to avoid buying anything now, unless its just something I gotta have, and its not out there price wise. Im waiting for things to calm down, and all those panic buys to start showing back up in the shops, or around town by word of mouth, and at bargain prices.

You're preaching to the choir so to speak. The "Biden Factor" is my main motivator. I watched all those guys buy AR's at insane prices after Sandy Hook and then watched the prices go right back down. Same could happen again. Or not.

 

[AK103K]

The Biden factor is what it is. Just like all the others were. If youve been through any of the others, and are just now figuring things out, doom on you.

Anything that gets banned will go quickly out of sight, "if", they are nice enough to grandfather them and let you keep them. Sounds like the dems want the world, again, and dont seem to like your grandpa. Guess we'll see if they get anywhere.

SOS too. Lots of crazy rumors and Chicken Little is running everywhere.

 

[35 Whelen]

Part of that may be that we've been spoiled by DCM (CMP). Indeed, if were to buy one of RTI's carbines, I would expect, at a minimum (and regardless of price) that the rifle be thoroughly cleaned, inspected, and test fired. No one should be selling malfunctioning guns unless they're clearly marked as such. Judging by the Forgotten Weapons youtube video, they're obviously not cleaned, and, if guys are getting guns that have functioning issues, then they're obviously not test firing them.

Then again, a $1200, perhaps I'm way off the mark. If carbines everywhere in the US are selling at close to 2k, then...shrug...I guess it is what it is. This might be the only way some working class Joe could ever afford one. I certainly know the feeling.

The first Carbine I got from RTI, a Standard, was pretty dirty, but cleaned up fairly easily. The second, an Inland, was absolutely filthy and had greased red dirt/dust in every crevice, nook and cranny of the rifle and the action functioned only grudgingly. It probably took me an hour to get it disassembled and cleaned. Now, imagine paying employees to disassemble and detail crates of these Carbines. It would raise the price to the point that no one would buy them.

My guess is most of the whiners didn't read the Terms and Conditions, specifically #5 and #9.

35W

 

[D.B. Cooper]

The Biden factor is what it is. Just like all the others were. If youve been through any of the others, and are just now figuring things out, doom on you.

Oh I absolutely agree. I don't know if I posted it or not, but I had searched for a carbine for years and never bought one, primarily because I simply didn't have the budget and means for the market price back then. So about 10 years ago, I just wrote it off as an impossibility. (Much like I've written off a Model 12 trench gun.) In the last year or so, it's not longer an impossibility. However, the Biden factor may make it an impossibility. SO I'm not "just now" figuring this all out. I knew it. There just wasn't much I could do about it.

 

[Speedo66]

Carbine prices had been rising even before the current political theatrics and the pandemic induced panic.

Bringing in all these broken toys from Ethiopia will probably make nice examples rise even farther if these African ones, with relatively high prices for such poor condition, become the new bottom line.