Bicyclist tries to open my van door..

[MrTwigg]

Annoying stoners tend to crumple into the fetal position with a generous application of pepper spray.

 

[AOK]

I think if there was an opportunity to further de escalate the situation then that is obviously the best choice of action. By the sounds of it you feel you did as much as possible. Your line in the sand was clearly crossed when he started trying to gain entry into your vehicle. I'm right there with you. Even if I know the doors are locked I will certainly clear my garment and obtain a solid grip on the holstered firearm and escalate my verbiage/body language.

 

[Kleanbore]

What's done is done, but how about a good long talk with your daughter about situational awareness and the realities of a world that includes dangerous people?

 

[4v50 Gary]

What Kleenbore suggested.

 

[Kleanbore]

One Other Thing

This is not original. Saw something about it on The Best Defense.

Keeping your pistol in a crate between the seats might be OK in many circumstances, but were someone to get into the car with you, and I would not discount that risk too much, the gun would be difficult to use, and it might end up being used against you.

Having a weapon that can be readily accessed and used with the left hand would mitigate tat risk partially; the next step would be to decide how to keep the pistol out of the hands of passengers, invited or uninvited.

 

[AOK]

Keeping your pistol in a crate between the seats might be OK in many circumstances, but were someone to get into the car with you, and I would not discount that risk too much, the gun would be difficult to use, and it might end up being used against you.

Excellent point!

 

[alexander45]

I cycle to and from work and every were els, unless you were in a bike lane (happens a lot and I mean alot) you were in the right on this one. + 10000 on the more situational awareness for the kid

 

[silicosys4]

I fail to see the threat to your life. I feel you are exaggerating a perceived risk here. Sounds like he only wanted to be sure you understood that he felt you were in the wrong with your parking job.
Did you go for the gun because you were afraid for your life, or because you didn't want to talk to a filthy, lightly stoned rasta?

When did he go from "lightly stoned or drunk" to "definitely on drugs and therefore a threat"?

Some people I feel are too in love with the idea of using a firearm to defend themselves or someone else to the point where they stop performing reasonable threat assessment and pull a gun in lieu of performing the ackward social dances that occasionally but inevitably occur as part of living with other human beings.

 

[PiratePenguin]

I fail to see the threat to your life. I feel you are exaggerating a perceived risk here.

I'm having trouble thinking of a legitimate, non-threatening reason for someone to attempt to open a stranger's vehicle door.

Can you give us an idea of what you think was going through this guy's head?

 

[silicosys4]

I'm having trouble thinking of a legitimate, non-threatening reason for someone to attempt to open a stranger's vehicle door.

Can you give us an idea of what you think was going through this guy's head?

If you can't imagine a scenario where a stranger might open your car door and your life might not be in danger, I would suggest that you have a problem with social paranoia.
It's a reason for alarm, perhaps. A reason to do an immediate threat assessment, definitely.
But good luck to you at your murder trial if you kill someone in "self defense" for the simple act of touching your car door handle.'
Especially if you had indicated that it was clear to you that the reason he wanted to open your door was to "harangue you" about parking....not threaten your life.

 

[Sentryau2]

I think you handled the situation fairly well, but in my opinion id find a better place to keep your firearm in the car, seems like you could be a bit slow on the draw if it came down to that because of where its located. I fail to see anything wrong with how you handled the situation, even if you were in violation of a traffic law. We can inform someone they are violating a law, we can ask them politely to move, after that its best to let the police handle it. Attempting to breach personal space or property without an invitation is a mistake that can turn deadly. You dont need to see a weapon to feel that your life is in danger, after all they could simply be concealing their weapon. Add into the mix a person who isn't exactly capable of handling themselves in a bad situation due to stature, and or age it just gets worse. OP shut the situation down before it took a turn for the worse.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

Why did you even talk to the guy in the first place?

 

[PiratePenguin]

If you can't imagine a scenario where a stranger might open your car door and your life might not be in danger, I would suggest that you have a problem with social paranoia.

Does that mean you can't come up with an example, and you're covering it up with accusations? I can come up with a few, but zero that apply in this situation. So please, enlighten me.

It's a reason for alarm, perhaps. A reason to do an immediate threat assessment, definitely.

Considering it a reason for alarm/threat assesment seems to be exactly what Mr. Sutton did. He didn't draw. He didn't aim. He didn't start firing. Nobody was murdered for the simple act of touching his car door handle. He warned the guy off without even threatening lethal force.

 

[silicosys4]

"So please, enlighten me".

He reaches for the door handle so he can open it to continue his harangue

.

There you go.

I never said he didn't act appropriately, but given the above quote, It appears that all that aggression and fear was perhaps exaggerated and maybe even unjustified, and the OP knew it at the time. There is a difference between fearing for your life and showing aggression to curtail further social interaction, and I see this being a case of the latter more than the former, then pretending it was the former more than the latter.
I suggest that the OP's strategy should also include a willingness to "put up with some B.S."...and maybe even from "dirty lightly stoned/drunk white rastas" as part of his interactions with other people before going for the gun.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

"So please, enlighten me".



There you go.

I never said he didn't act appropriately, but given the above quote, It appears that all that aggression and fear was perhaps exaggerated and maybe even unjustified, and the OP knew it at the time. There is a difference between fearing for your life and showing aggression to curtail further social interaction, and I see this being a case of the latter more than the former, then pretending it was the former more than the latter.

This is a very dangerous way to look at things. If someone opens your car door, they have escalated past mere "social interaction". That does not mean you need to immediately resort to lethal force, although you would be legal to do so in certain locations. It does move the situation well past engaging someone in conversation, and into reacting to a very real threat. There is absolutely zero justification for another individual to open your car door without an invitation. If you feel otherwise, I strongly suggest that you rethink it.

 

[silicosys4]

"that is a very dangerous way to look at things"

What, to assess threats and act appropriately, and to save extreme reactions for extreme situations?
What if the OP didn't grab for his gun? Didn't even have a gun? The outcome would have been the same.
The dangerous way to look at things imo is the assumption that guns are a great way to avoid talking to people who aren't a threat to you.

Just seems to me the OP is admitting to knowing there was no real threat, then makes a big deal about reacting to this "threat".

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

"that is a very dangerous way to look at things"

What, to assess threats and act appropriately?

It's real simple. When someone opens your car door uninvited, they aren't likely going to be doing it to offer you polite conversation. It isn't advisable to wait and find out. As Kleanbore pointed out above, it's very difficult to maneuver and fight inside of a vehicle. It would be in your best interest to prepare to defend yourself immediately.

What if the OP didn't grab for his gun? Didn't even have a gun? The outcome would have been the same.

What if the guy had a gun and carjacked the OP and his daughter? What if there was another guy working with him? What if, etc. The outcome could have been very different. We aren't talking about what if, we are talking about a guy that opened someone else's car door. People are unpredictable. Just because he didn't appear to be a threat before, does not mean that couldn't change before you have time to react.

The dangerous way to look at things imo is the assumption that guns are a great way to avoid talking to people who aren't a threat to you.

Again, and I want to emphasize this, we aren't talking about avoiding having a discussion with someone. We are talking about someone opening someone's car door without justification. I would not recommend waiting to find out what their intentions are before preparing to defend yourself. Odds are it will be too late if you do.

Just seems to me the OP is admitting to knowing there was no real threat, then makes a big deal about reacting to this "threat".

One can never know for sure that there is no threat.

 

[Kleanbore]

None of us were there except for the OP---but: someone trying to open your car door would be a most disturbing thing. Absent an indication of intent to harm, there may be a better way to handle it. How about moving the car forward or backward to get his hand off the door handle?

Had he gotten in, things would be a whole lot worse. One would probably and properly go directly past go and use necessary force immediately.

But that gun between the seats could make that a losing proposition. Not the best way to be prepared.

The proximity of the girl colors everything here. One cannot drive away. And she is in a vulnerable situation.

And how would it affect her if the father where to shoot the man in her presence?

A locked door and a power window may make a pepper gel defense viable.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

Some good points.

None of us were there except for the OP---but: someone trying to open your car door would be a most disturbing thing. Absent an indication of intent to harm, there may be a better way to handle it. How about moving the car forward or backward to get his hand off the door handle?

Personally, I think trying to gain access to another's vehicle illegally is, in itself, intent to harm. There's no good reason I can think of to open a stranger's car door.

Moving the vehicle may be an option, but it should also be considered that it will not always be so, such as in a parking lot or traffic. There's also the possibility that you injure that individual, and he claims that you hit him as he was "just riding by". Dishonesty is a difficult thing to overcome, as you've pointed out in the past.

Had he gotten in, things would be a whole lot worse. One would probably and properly go directly past go and use necessary force immediately.

Certainly.

But that gun between the seats could make that a losing proposition. Not the best way to be prepared.

Agreed. I know people that put their pistols in their glove box, for some reason.

The proximity of the girl colors everything here. One cannot drive away. And she is in a vulnerable situation.

And how would it affect her if the father where to shoot the man in her presence?

True, but it must also be balanced against how it would affect her to see something happen to her father, or her.

A locked door and a power window may make a pepper gel defense viable.

I always keep my doors locked, in my vehicle and at home. One thing that I dislike about some vehicles, is the auto-unlock feature when putting the transmission in park. Absolutely horrible idea, from a self defense perspective.

 

[tepin]

In most states bicyclists are require to follow the same laws as someone driving a car which means driving on the road unless there is a bike lane which is different than the shoulder. My wife is a bicyclist and she has met some real [redacted]. Just say'in - attempting to open someone's car door... seems a little aggressive to me. Not much different than trying to open someone's front door (home).... and in some states, its the same.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

In most states bicyclists are require to follow the same laws as someone driving a car which means driving on the road unless there is a bike lane which is different than the shoulder. My wife is a bicyclist and she has met some real [redacted]. Just say'in - attempting to open someone's car door... seems a little aggressive to me. Not much different than trying to open someone's front door (home).... and in some states, its the same.

That's a good point. In Florida, it is the same, from a legal point of view.

 

[silicosys4]

I'm pretty sure its not legal to shoot someone in self defense for the act of opening your front door in any state.

 

[AOK]

I'm pretty sure its not legal to shoot someone in self defense for the act of opening your front door in any state.

What if you are in fear for you and/or your loved ones life?

Was it illegal for him the OP to be consciously aware he has a firearm and keep it out of sight? He did absolutely nothing wrong. He was merely prepared if thing did in fact go to the next level.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

I'm pretty sure its not legal to shoot someone in self defense for the act of opening your front door in any state.

Who said that it was?

You may also want to check the statutes in certain states. In certain circumstances, it may indeed be legal.

 

[silicosys4]

What if you are in fear for you and/or your loved ones life?

A lot gets made of this

It doesn't matter what you "feel". After the fact, what will matter when you are sitting at your own trial, is how justified your feelings were. Plenty of people have gone to jail who "felt" they were justified at the time they shot. This sounds too much like you are hiding behind the written law, instead of using your own judgement to actually evaluate a situation.
Fearing for your life because a dirty rasta straddling a bicycle touched your front door handle or even opened your door? Good luck finding a jury to go along with that one. We can wax hypothetical all day long about him getting off his bicycle, pulling a knife, or even climbing into the vehicle. None of that happened.

I never said the OP acted inappropriately. I do feel its inappropriate to claim that there is some specific self defense "strategy" needed here, other than the standard situational awareness and threat assessment that should be part of daily life.
I do see an ackward and mildly unpleasant social situation that was resolved without any need for a firearm, and then was subsequently blown out of proportion by the OP's post in attempts to tie self defense into it, and in his OP the need for a gun to be highly exaggerated.
You may see something different, but I see much ado about nothing and then a lot of "what ifs" to justify an ongoing debate.