Big caliber, low pressure DA revolver?

[captain awesome]

Brass is brass, the factories do not make them weaker or stronger.

this is incorrect. I can feel the difference when sizing 38 special and 357 mag. Both have the same loading, I just load the 38 special cases to the same OAL as the 357's to stay under pressure, only firing them out of my 357 revolvers.(I ended up with a bunch of 38special brass for free, so I figured why waist it by just letting it sit there unused?) Point of this is, the 38 special brass was much easier to re-size, suggesting that the brass is either thinner or weaker or both. magnum rifle brass is much stronger than your typical low pressure handgun round. to say brass is brass and there is no difference is foolishness.

either way though, most brass will indeed last a very long time at low pressures, magnum brass or not. over stretching the mouth on the expander dies is very detrimental to case life.

 

[Gordon]

My favorite low pressure big bore is a .455 Eley. I have a Webley Mark V 4" gun that is a work of art as is my other fair condition 6" .455 S&W Triple Lock in this caliber presently. I had 500 rounds of factory Fiocchi Ammo I bought when a gun store went under 20 years ago. Before that I shot the then available Kynoch surplus military .455 ammo . These things uncork a 265 conical at 650 fps or so. Amazingly these things were known "stoppers" of wild savages ect. and rated #1 in the Thompson-LaGarde Hand gun effects tests of the early 20th century. I have no doubt the quick handling and outstandingly accurate Mark V Webley made in 1914 would lay you low in close combat ! I fiddled with some 280 grain Wadcutters I still have the old Lyman mold for. Herco worked well with 5 grain loads in my good condition guns and gave 620 FPS in the 4" barrel and 650 fps in the 6" Triple lock. They shot higher than the 265 factory load the sights were set for and I only had a 100 empty Fiocchi cases when I fooled with them about 1987. Now the safe queens have about 300 factory rounds between them, maybe when I retire...............

 

[sw282]

l have a SW M24 44spcl. lts a Lew Horton model w/3'' barrel. Most accurate handgun l have ever owned is a SW M25-3. 45LC. Big throats too. Rem 454 250gr slugs can be finger pushed thru any of the throats. Shoots 452 Speer swc bullets just as good. They rattle thru the throats. My favorite big bore revolver is a COLT SA 7 1/2'' in 44-40. l dont know the SAAMI pressure for the Colt

 

[StrawHat]

captain awesome
...this is incorrect. I can feel the difference when sizing 38 special and 357 mag. Both have the same loading, I just load the 38 special cases to the same OAL as the 357's to stay under pressure, only firing them out of my 357 revolvers.(I ended up with a bunch of 38special brass for free, so I figured why waist it by just letting it sit there unused?) Point of this is, the 38 special brass was much easier to re-size, suggesting that the brass is either thinner or weaker or both. magnum rifle brass is much stronger than your typical low pressure handgun round. to say brass is brass and there is no difference is foolishness...

captain awesome,

Section some of the handgun brass and compare thicknesses at comparable points. The factories do not go out and design some brass to be weaker than others. The brass that is commonly available today is built to give long life with reasonable loads. For nearly a century people have talked of the "weak 45 long Colt case" well, modern 45 long Colt cases are built as strong as the 44 Magnum case.

But the point I was trying to make is that properly loaded cases will last for a long time. Overloading them (any cartridge including magnum rifle) will greatly reduce their lifespan.

 

[Stainz]

I love my 625MGs in .45 Colt:



I've been reloading since shortly after acquiring my first 625MG (625-7 above - with square conversion Ahrends grips), which was my first-ever S&W (9/02). If I didn't, ammo costs would head me towards a 4" 625JM in .45 ACP. A frugal big bore - ammo cost and wrist wear - you can buy a 250 round box of UMC .45 ACP ball ammo - 230gr FMJ in brass - on a Sunday afternoon at most WallyWorlds for <$100 inc s/t. Try to find .45 Colt!

If you reload, you can switch from .45 ACP to .45 Auto Rim by just changing your reloading press' shell plate. As the .45 Colt is actually a 14 kPSI max cartridge, and the .45 ACP/AR cartridge is rated at 21+ kPSI, you can load hotter than standard .45 Colt levels. No magazine to feedramp interface to fit, so your bullets can include typical .45 Colt loads - like my 255gr LSWC loads. I usually put my warmer loads - still within .45 ACP/AR specs - in the .45 AR cases - and use the HKS #25 speedloaders to load them. Sometimes, I just carry a pocket full of the 'cute' little AR rounds. They are 'cute' in the same vein as .44 Russians - short cases/big bores.

I recall the duel between Venturino and John Taffin over the .45 ACP & .45 Colt. I love the normal .45 Colt, but have to admit - the .45 ACP/AR is a better choice. Brass is affordable and available - even the AR - from Starline.

Stainz

PS I have a 625JM, too. However, in a post apocalyptic world, my Governor would be the best to grab - it'll take moonclipped .45 ACP/GAP; .45 Colt/Schofield; and 2.5" .410 shotgun shells!

 

[jj1962hemi]

I have a S&W Model 1955 (Model 25 target in 45 ACP) with a 6" barrel. It's a damn fine gun and white box ammo is cheap. As it's been said, though, a companion rifle will be hard to find. 45 ACP brass is really easy to get, though. I'm still buying my ammo off the shelf!

 

[sugarmaker]

S&W 500 shooting 450 cast / 39 grs H4198 for 1125FPS, very low pressure.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Then there is the grandaddy of the Model 25 and the Model 1955, the original Model 1917.

This pair are from the Brazilian contract of the 1930s.






I just picked this one up this week. As a matter of fact it is sitting next to me on my desk right now. I just made up some light 45 Auto Rim rounds for it because it is about 95 years old and I don't want to stress it. Hope to try it out tomorrow.



The article by Mike Venturino referred to earlier was actually about the 45 AR round and how great it is. Small capacity just like the 45 ACP, so you don't get the inefficiency you get with the 45 Colt round when loaded with a small Smokeless powder charge. But you don't need clips with the 45 AR, it was designed specifically for revolvers like the 1917 that fired the 45ACP. Just has a really thick rim to take the place of the clips. No, you cannot shoot it in a revolver chambered for 45 Colt, but you can shoot it in any revolver chambered for 45 Auto, and the rims means you can eject without needing clips.

Brass is not hard to find, Starline makes it and you can order by phone or on line. I order from Starline a couple of times a year when I need brass that nobody else makes, stuff like 45AR, 45 Schofield, and 44 Russian.


*******


If you want to shoot a 44, you can find lots of slightly used 44 Mags on sale, often along with a half shot box of 44 Mag ammo. Seems a lot of folks want a 44 until they shoot one. Then they sell it and the other half of the box that did not get shot. But you can shoot 44 Specials all day long in a 44 Mag.

Or you can get a revolver specifically chambered for 44 Special. The beauty of a 44 Special revolver is it is not as big and heavy as a 44 Mag. You just have to be content with the relatively mild mannered 44 Special cartridge, which can be a real pleasure to shoot when loaded lightly. Hardly kicks any more than a 38 Special.



Model 24





Model 624. This one does not have those awful big grips on it now, just a tasteful set of Magna grips.






Sometimes you can find some really funky old 44 Special revolvers, like these 44 Handejector 3rd Models (Model of 1926). These two were nickel plated at some time after they left the factory, dead giveaway is the triggers and hammers were plated, but they are terrific old guns and fun to shoot. The top one was made in 1929, I forget when the bottom one was made.








The point is, there are lots and lots of options for shooting mild mannered big bore double action revolvers.

 

[jgh4445]

Mes...I do have a 625 Mountain gun that was origianlly a 45LC. I sent it to Pinnacle and had the cylinder milled so I could also shoot 45 ACPswith moon clips. ( They both shoot to the same POA with my handloads). Are you saying that I can also shoot 460 Rowlands in this gun?

 

[TAG2501]

Look at the Ruger Redhawk in 45colt. Or for a lighter pistol, S&Ws; n-frame mountain gun un 45 colt - if you can find one

 

[mes227]

Mes...I do have a 625 Mountain gun that was origianlly a 45LC. I sent it to Pinnacle and had the cylinder milled so I could also shoot 45 ACPswith moon clips. ( They both shoot to the same POA with my handloads). Are you saying that I can also shoot 460 Rowlands in this gun?

I can't think of a reason why not. It's exactly the same frame as the 629, and the .44 Mag has almost exactly the same parameters as the .460 Rowland. The .460 Rowland fits in the .45 Colt cylinder (I just checked again), and except for being a few tenths longer they have identical dimensions as .45 acp (thus they won't fit in a 625 chambered for .45 acp unless you have the cylinder drilled deeper). I have a Dan Wesson .460 Rowland revolver and it chambers .45 acp fine. For the Mountain Gun all that seems to be missing is a moon clip to hold the Rowland up for the firing pin.

I'm deeply intrigued with the idea of of having my 625 set up to take .45 Colt, .45 acp and .460 Rowland.

Anyone have experience with this?

 

[Boxhead]

"If you reload, you can switch from .45 ACP to .45 Auto Rim by just changing your reloading press' shell plate. As the .45 Colt is actually a 14 kPSI max cartridge, and the .45 ACP/AR cartridge is rated at 21+ kPSI, you can load hotter than standard .45 Colt levels. No magazine to feedramp interface to fit, so your bullets can include typical .45 Colt loads - like my 255gr LSWC loads. I usually put my warmer loads - still within .45 ACP/AR specs - in the .45 AR cases"

I believe the OP was looking for the lowest pressure loads hence the 45 Colt. One can also load the 45 Colt to 21kpsi and shoot 325 gr WLN's at 1000-1100 fps though this is counter to what the OP desires.

 

[jgh4445]

Mes...as stated in my above post, I sent my 625 45LC to Pinnacle gun works. They milled the cylinder so it would accept 45 ACP's with a moon clip. Google Pinnacle. They do good work and it made my 625 two guns (with the Rowland three) guns in one. (pinnacle-guns.com. The moon clip conversion is $80.00)