Need help--want a .45 wheelgun (DA)

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armedcitizen

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I recently got one of the SW Thunder Ranch .44 Specials and love it. Now, I think I'd like to have a fixed sight, DA .45 revolver to go with it. I'm thinking .45 long colt but could be swayed to .45 acp with good arguments. I'm not a ballistics guy so I don't know if LC or ACP would be better for defensive purposes. You guys tell me!

I'm familiar with the current crop of Smithy .45 revolvers but since they're all adjustable sights I'm hoping some of you S and W historian types can tell me what else is out there.

I don't want a museum piece, I want a shooter. Something I could carry given the right circumstances.

So, does a fixed sight, DA, .45 LC revolver exist? How difficult are they to find and what would a reasonable expectation of price be?

Thanks all!
 
Can't give a link but one member very recently had in his thread a much shortened and engaved M1917 Smith in .45 acp ... caught me out ... couldn't ID it!!! If I find link I'll come back with it.

So perhaps a 1917 if you can find one would suit your purpose ... even perhaps doing some shortening. Most were IIRC 6".
 
.45 Colt actually has more potential, given the right firearm and load, but right out of the box all DA .45 acp guns will use moon clips. For CCW under your description, I would highly recommend moon clips. Yes, you could get a .45 Colt modified to take moon clips, but 1) it would cost extra money, and 2) the Colts would bee more bulky.

I don't know who makes them, but there is a fixed sight replacement for S&W adjustable sights.
 
armedcitizen,

The Model 1917 and it's variations is the .45ACP fixed sight gun you are looking for.

There were at least three "flavors" of the Model 1917, but they are all basically the same gun except for price. The original, the Model 1917, saw 163,000 of them made for the US Army for WWI. After the war there was a run of 25,000 were made for the Brazilian Army in 1938. They are identifiable by the Brazilian Crest on the sideplate. There were "commercial" versions that go for a big premium. There is also the Model 1950 Army (Model 22) from early 50's to the mid 60's.

All of these are 5 1/2" barrels. Of these the 1938's are the cheaper ones ($300-450). Most of these guns were abused and are in poor condition. Many have very poor arsenal refinish jobs. That isn't to say you can't find "good" examples of them. If you were looking for a project gun, this would be where I would start.

Here is the thread P95Carry spoke of:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=124770

That gun had already been modified to a CCW/Backup gun before I purchased it, but it had been badly pitted. I confess to being the guy who turned it into a BBQ gun.

Since we are both in the same town, I would be happy to hook up with you at New Albany, or the Powder Room and let you try out some different 45 wheelguns. Most of mine have adjustable sights, but they all tend to shoot the same (which is GREAT btw). I have a 3" Model 625 as well as the 3" 1917, both of which I use for CCW.

Smith has done a couple of runs of Model 25's (and M625's) with 4" barrels in 45Colt, but the Model 25/625 has adjustable sights. Maybe with the aftermarket fixed sights mentioned above, they would fit your needs.

Other options would include Ruger, who has made various dual cylinder '45s (ACP & 45Colt). That way you could have the best of both worlds. I am unaware of any Ruger's that would come standard with a short enough barrel for CCW, but like the Smiths, they could be cut down for the purpose.

I prefer the moon clip solution my self. There is a video on the net showing Jerry Miculek shooting his M625 using moon clips, 6 rounds, a reload, 6 more rounds in 2.99 seconds. Amazing. Here is the link:

http://home.cinci.rr.com/vladdies/fastshooter.wmv

Good luck with your quest, .45 wheel guns are simply the BEST!

Dave
 
Dave,

Thanks for the info. I guess my question was tailor-made for you wasn't it!

Based on what you said about the 1917's, it sounds like a Smith 25 or 625 may be my best option. I could live with the adjustable sights or have the conversion done.

I'd love to take you up on your offer to try them out at some point. Unfortunately I don't get to shoot nearly as much as I'd like to! I'll send you a PM when my schedule opens up a bit. Are you a member at either NASR or the Powder Room?

BTW, just what is a BBQ gun?

Thanks again!
 
For self-defense, the .45LC is far more cartridge than you need. This cartridge is great if you also want to hunt deer with it, but for pure self-defense, a .45 ACP is a better choice because it gives you ample power in a smaller package.

The hottest .45 revolver is the S&W 625. They are nice guns, but a good gunsmith or a handy person with some polishing experience can turn them into great guns. They come with adjustable sights, but you can purchase fixed sights if you must.
 
Mike Venturino makes a good case for the .45 ACP/AR over the .45 Colt in the current "American Handgunner".

As has been mentioned, there are still quite a few 1917 Smiths and Colts out there. It is, however, getting tough to find one in decent shape without a 'collector' pricetag on it. Especially the Colts.

FWIW, you might want to hide and watch awhile. The birdies say that if the Thunder Ranch .44 flies well, a similarly configured .45 ACP could be on the way. Rumor is that some serious lobbying is taking place as we speak.
 
The birdies say that if the Thunder Ranch .44 flies well, a similarly configured .45 ACP could be on the way.
Click to expand...

That would be ideal! Unfortunately, patience is not a quality I possess in large quantities!
 
A 625 is an excellent gun and available in a lot of configurations. I like moon clips so I'd go for the 45 ACP. In standard pressures the 45 Colt and 45 ACP are pretty much equivilant. More development has gone into HP for the 45 ACP so again I'd say it gets the not for a defensive weapon over a 45 Colt.

If I want to carry a revolver I have my S&W 646 in 40 S&W. I've replaced the front blade with a fiber optic and plan on eventually getting a replacement cylinder for it chambered in 10mm. I thought about getting the C&S fixed rear sight but the current one seems sturdy enough for now :)

Not on par with the S&W's but if you're looking for something a little smaller and can give up a round the Taurus 455 can be had in Ti 4" with fixed sights. Much lighter than my 646 and thinner to pack than a 625. A 325 wouldn't be much heavier but would still be thicker.

I picked up the Taurus from CDNN for $350. Stainless versions with adjustable sights in 2" unported and 2, 4 and 6" ported are also available for right around $300 from CDNN. All of these models are available in 45 Colt and moon-clipped 45 ACP.

I find the Ti to be so light weight that I have trouble shooting it consistantly. The grip style has a major effect on the POI since it's only 21 oz. It appears to be regulated for standard velocity 185 gr bullets. 230 gr shoot very high. I need to practice with it a lot more before I'm confident in my ability with the gun.

The Taurus moon clips are quite thin and allow the rounds to move more slowing reloads compared to the thicker S&W clips. So far I haven't had a problem with them bending because this loosenes allows the round to move without bending or damaging the clip so they seem to transport just as well.
 
armedcitizen,

I am not a member of either of those ranges. I usually shot outside, but during the winter I hit the Powder Room every month or six weeks. I really like NASR, but I am a tightwad and the Powder Room is a lot cheaper. (For me anyway) Drop me a note anytime I'll be glad to meet you at either location.

As for the term BBW Gun, I would never claim complete knowledge in the matter, but what I have heard is...

The term suggests a fancy gun that a fine Texan might wear to a barbecue. Usually Engraved, often nickeled, with Stag or Ivory grips, and a fancy tooled holster to match. (My holster isn't tooled, but it is sheep skin lined and has a rattlesnake insert!)

As for the 625, you can't make a bad choice there. I prefer my 3", but there are not many of them around, and they generally go for a premium. If you like the 4", there are many more of them to be had, and many more configurations available.

A brand new Taurus for $300? Wow. If I was buying right now, I would have to stop and at least look at that.

Dave
 
Black Snowman,

Thanks for pointing out the Taurus. Somehow I was unaware they were making those. I went to Taurus website and then to CDNN. Looks like a good bang for the buck.

How has your experience been? I understand the issue of controlling a very light gun in .45acp, as I had a 625-10 for a bit. I was more interested in your thoughts on it's fit and finish. Any mechanical issues you have had. I love my smiths, but at 1/2 the price, I might be willing to give up "a little bit".

Dave
 
1917s are pretty neat as long as you stay away from the loads in the earlier manuals and those promoted by gun writers starting in the 1960s and occasionally reprinted in current magazines.
 
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Jerry, IMHO ... std pressure factory stuff will be just fine. But avoid any +P stuff. My old 1917 was actually in .455, but I loaded for it with a slightly reduced load from book max, and it chewed those up with no hint of dislike!!
 
I would stay away from anything called +P. May be unnecessarily conservative but considering that some of them have been blown up by "Poor Man's Magnum" loads, it's not a bad idea.
 
Colt New Service in 45LC are also easy to find. I bought mine for $375 here in California.

The 45LC in it's standard loading is hotter than 45ACP ball. 255gr moving @ 900+ fps vice 230gr @ 802 fps. But the ACP has the advantage of better bullet selection for social use.
 
If you check S&W's site, you'll find a new 4" 625 (.45ACP), the 625JM (... for Jerry Miculek). I should get mine today - and will report back later on it. My 'pusher' quoted $10 more than a standard 4". The 'JM' reportedly comes with some of Miculek's special wood grips, a bead front sight, and full-moon clips. The picture displays the same attributes that made me sell my 625-8 last spring... the full lug and satin SS finish. The months without that fun-piece have taught me just how valuable that low-recoil big-bore was to me.

I love my 625MG in .45 Colt - super fun piece. My dealer's case has displayed a new 25MG for a while now. If my 625 were to evaporate, I'd grab that 25MG in a heartbeat. Now, however, it would be a duplicate. I reload, so the .45 Colt - and the Auto Rims - are no problem. In fact, I found ~80+ AR rounds left over from my previous 625 and may take them with me for a quick range trip with that new 625JM when it arrives today.

Stainz
 
Was doing some web research yesterday....

is .45 ACP and .45 auto rim the same thing?

Does anyone have any pics of their Mountain Guns?
 
armedcitizen,


After WWI S&W was still making the model 1917 for the commercial market.
To civilians the idea of using half moon clips* was a bit foreign, so in 1920 Peters Cartridge Company added a thick rim to the ACP case and dubbed it the .45 Auto Rim. The rim was thicker than other revolver ammunition to make up for the added thickness of the half moon clip.

The thick rim also prevented using in it black powder revolvers chambered for .45 Colt or .45 Schofield.

Peters and later Remington-UMC loaded it with a 230 grain lead round nose bullet up until the 1990s.

Winchester (WRA Co.) loaded it with the same 230 grain full metal case roundnose bullets they used in .45 ACP. Winchester stopped selling the ammo in the 1950s.




*the full moon clip is a relatively new invention having not surfaced until the 1980s.
 
Big bore DA revolvers and loads

I'm very fond of my 625Mountain Gun, but I agree, I wish I had a fixed sight model as well.

My next best thing is a 1917 that someone took and had finished in Armalloy some years back. I thought it would be darned near perfect if it had a four inch barrel and was blue. I still haven't brought myself to have it cut off, especially since I would need to have the barrel refinished if I did.

Anyway, I've had a lot of fun inmaking up all around outdoor loads. Kead and rucker, among others sell bulk packed 250 LWSC bullets. These do very well in .45 Auto Rim cases, over some 5.0 tp 5.5 gr. of Unique. The lessened case volume brings this bullet up to just shy of many .45 Colt loads. The big, stubby cases with the big, squat bullets are easy to identify at a glance. Of course, the .230 LRN ACP bullets also load nicely in the AR cases, and one doesn't need to bother with clipping and unclpping ACP cases. The AR cases ride nicely in bullet loops in a field belt, and promote taking a shot or two at a target of opportunity and reloading with single, loose, cartridges. After all, not EVERY use of the handgun requires emptying the cylinder.

I mentioned at a localdealer that I was using a fair amount of .45 AR brass. They'd ordered a bunch for a customer who'd defaulted. Later, when they went out of business, they made me an offer I really couldn't turn down. :D

So, now I have a lot more Auto Rim brass than I'll ever use. Anybody want to buy some, cheap? I'll post something in Buy, Sell, Trade Accessories later on.

Best,
Johnny
 
325 Pd ?

Light weight, concealable, neat hi-viz site...

Only pans on it for me were:

The smooth grips let the gun jump around a fair bit ... because...

the stout, sharp recoil...


The DA trigger is very "Taurus" like, heavy. Smooth, but heavy.
 
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