Black powder question

[Tallship]

I'm sorta new to BP shooting, and I wonder what the real difference is between Goex, 777 and Pyrodex. Because of the idiotic storage regulations here in San Diego, it's almost impossible to get anything but Pyrodex, so is it worthwhile to travel up to Riverside to get the real thing?

 

[kid_couteau]

Hi

If I remember correctly 777 is about 10% hotter then the other two so you have to cut your charge, outside of that 777 is the best you can use if you are rich. Cleans up with water
Wont rust your gun
CONS:
most pricey

Pyrodex:
May as well pour acid in your gun if you do not meticulously clean it

Goex:
Cheaper
easy to clean
not corrosive but is hydroscopic
CONS:
Cant store easily

Hope this helps
Kid

 

[Phillip Allen]

The only reason I have any patients with the fake black powder is because there are places where the real McCoy is difficult to get...I am so sold on it that if I were to move to Calf, I would bring a case in and hide it for personal use...a lot of trouble but it is that much more desirable than the fake stuff...further, it would be the Swiss powder!

 

[BigBlock]

Grafs.com will send the real thing anywhere in the 50 states. Prices are very reasonable, even with the $20 hazmat fee. I don't know why everybody acts like it's so hard to get, in fact it couldn't be easier.

 

[arcticap]

Goex certainly is corrosive though, and 777 loads need to be reduced by 15% volume.
Black powder is considered an explosive, whereas the sub propellants are only flammable and need to be compressed in a barrel to produce an explosive effect.
Pyrodex P generally produces more velocity than BP (maybe excepting Swiss), and 777 is probably even more potent, but if it's compressed very much it loses some velocity.
What type of gun are you shooting?

 

[Phillip Allen]

BTW Tallship...I am wondering at your "name" because I am a sort of wannabe sailor...

 

[Tallship]

In answer to a couple of questions: I am shooting a Pietta 1851 steel frame and a Pietta 1860 Army. I started out with Pyrodex P and CCI caps on the 1851 and P and CCI caps on the 1860. I then went to the Pyrodex pellets and Rem caps on the 1860. Interestingly, I used to get at least one or more "no bangs" per cylinder with the CCI caps, but have not had even one of the Rem caps fail to go off.

To Phillip: Yes, I used to be a grand prix yacht racer, but now that I get junk mail fromm AARP, I retired and bought a power boat . I'm also a huge Patrick O'Brian and Alexander Kent fan.

 

[Plink]

Though I strongly prefer real black powder, I've used a lot of Pyrodex over the years, and a few cans of 777. Black powder is easier to ignite and more accurate. Pyrodex, being harder to ignite tends to ignite slower, which is the same as increasing lock time. That tends to play havoc with accuracy. Magnum primers work well with it. 777 is more powerful, but I wasn't impressed accuracy wise either.

Black powder is less corrosive than Pyrodex and cleans easier too. 777 is supposed to be cleanable with plain water, but it always left a lot of hard fouling in my guns that required scrubbing with solvent.

It just depends on what your needs are. If you're out for maximum accuracy, I'd suggest ordering black powder. If you just enjoy a good round of plinking Pyrodex works fine. 777 is great for hunting. Ordering black powder is no big deal and it's a lot cheaper per pound than 777 or Pyrodex that way. My last order of it came from www.powderinc.com.

Good luck

 

[mykeal]

O'Brian and Kent rock.

First of all, Plink pretty much said what I think about Goex, 777 and Pyrodex. I've been shooting black powder for 30+ years; started with the real stuff made by a guy in Arkansas, but had to go to Goex/Swiss when his plant blew up for the second time and he didn't rebuild (something about insurance...). Tried Pyrodex when it first came out and it just about ruined two percussion pistols with fouling and corrosion. Went back to real black powder until just recently I've been using 777 exclusively. I think it cleans easier and have had no issues with accuracy (maybe because I'm not all that good of a shot?). May just change again though, since I recently found a local source for Goex at a good price.

I've read all of O'Brian I can get my hands on, and his Aubrey series three times, working on fourth time. I've read Kent's Bolitho stories twice and will do the third once I've finished the fourth time through O'Brian's Aubrey. Patric O'Brian is without a doubt the best author I've ever read, and I have read a lot. Thanks for the opportunity to rave about him.

 

[hildo]

Just started doubting my knowlege.
Is it not so that 777 is 15% more powerfull than BP, when comparing by weight?
But when comparing by volume, would BP not be more or less identical powerfull?

 

[Phillip Allen]

Tallship, you have my sympathy about sinking to becoming a stinkpotter

(I want to schoon)

 

[arcticap]

hildo,
Here's a great reference powder conversion chart for you:
It shows that when comparing weight to volume equivalent weights, 777 is about 27% lighter than Goex.
After the 15% adjustment, 777 is nearly 38% lighter by weight.

Thus, 777 is 15% more powerful by volume.

http://www.curtrich.com/BPConversionSheet.htm

 

[hildo]

Arcticap,
Have tried to understand 777 loads before, but not everybody can put it this cristal clear.
Have learned some more. Thanks.

 

[Plink]

Hildo, most muzzleloader powder measurements are by volume. It's easier to figure out how much to reduce a charge that way too, so it all works out in the end. My rule of thumb is reduce 10% when going from 2F to 3F, reduce 15% for equivelant granulation of 777. There might be a better system, but I ain't blown myself up yet with mine!

 

[jeep-2]

Goex certainly is corrosive though, and 777 loads need to be reduced by 15% volume.
Black powder is considered an explosive, whereas the sub propellants are only flammable and need to be compressed in a barrel to produce an explosive effect.
Pyrodex P generally produces more velocity than BP (maybe excepting Swiss), and 777 is probably even more potent, but if it's compressed very much it loses some velocity.
What type of gun are you shooting?
To set the record straight:

Federal law for many years has required an explosives license for dealers in explosives. The new "Safe Explosives Act," passed as part of the Homeland Security Act of 2002 (H.R. 5005), adds user permit requirements for buyers of explosives.

However, existing federal explosives laws have long made exceptions for black and smokeless powders, and the new law did not amend those exceptions:

1. Smokeless powder is considered an "ammunition component" rather than an explosive. Therefore, smokeless powder is not subject to existing explosives laws or to the new requirements.

2. Black powder is not considered an explosive, when sold in quantities less than 50 pounds and used for sporting, recreational, or cultural purposes in antique, replica, or muzzleloading firearms. Under those long-standing conditions, black powder is also not subject to existing explosives laws or to the new requirements.

During consideration of this bill, Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT), senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee-and now incoming chairman-was very concerned that it could have an adverse effect on legitimate gunpowder users. Sen. Hatch's staff worked closely with NRA to ensure that no language in the bill could be turned against handloaders or black powder shooters. As a result, the existing exemptions were left unchanged.

The bottom line is that this legislation has no effect on people who buy smokeless powder for cartridge or shot shell reloading, or on black powder shooters who use normal amounts of powder for competition, hunting, reenactments, or other legitimate purposes. Once again, Internet rumors to the contrary are false and gun owners are best advised to turn to reliable information sources such as www.nraila.org to get the facts.