Blackhawk .45 Colt on layaway... should I get the 44 Spec?

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C-grunt

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So I have a .45 Colt Blackhawk 4 5/8 inch model on layaway. I decided to go with it because Ive always liked the .45 Colt and the short Blackhawk is my mental image of a woods gun.

Next to it though they had three of the special edition .44 Specials for slightly cheaper. Ive always thought the .44 Special was an under appreciated cartridge and wouldnt mind owning it. Plus its a special edition.

I will end up reloading either one so factory availability is not a factor.

Im pretty sure I made the right choice, but that .44 Spec just keeps whispering in my ear. What do you guys think?
 
You should buy it of course. Silly question around here. Think we would say no? :D

Seriously. Great caliber. You'll love it.
 
I keep talking myself out of the .44 Special by reasoning that there isn't much difference between it and the .45 Colt.

I still want one though. Of course, there's nothing wrong with owning Rugers for two great old cartridges. Besides, I've been lugging around .44 Special dies for over 20 years that Midway shipped me by mistake and then told me to keep them rather than go through the trouble of returning.
 
C-grunt

So can you have two guns on layaway or does the first one have to be paid off first? I would say if the .44 Special is calling, you should defininitely pick it up.
 
C-grunt

So can you have two guns on layaway or does the first one have to be paid off first? I would say if the .44 Special is calling, you should defininitely pick it up.
I could probably put the second one on lay away as well as Im in good with the owner. But I couldnt afford the second gun right now as we are saving to buy another house (gotta move out of the ghetto). I still have to come up with the 200 bucks for the tax stamp on my suppressor that came in this week.
 
Since you reload, you can always load the 45 LC hotter...but not a 44 Special.
 
I own the .45 Colt 4 5/8". I have been trying to talk myself into the .44 Special, but I can load the Colt as light as I want, or as heavy, so the inertia is to not buy.

All guns speak to me, so I have to ignore their calling on a regular basis.
 
Since you reload, you can always load the 45 LC hotter...but not a 44 Special.
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Really? I'd have to disagree with you on that one , so would Elmer Keith if he was still alive , he stoked the .44 special pretty fair and folks are still doing so. I regularly run some pretty stout loads through a three inch model 24 Smith.
 
Are these two guns the same size, or is the 44 a little smaller and lighter?

If they are both built on the same frame, they are essentially identical, no?

Any desire to fit a 45acp cylinderin the future?
 
I keep talking myself out of the .44 Special by reasoning that there isn't much difference between it and the .45 Colt.
I would say that while they do have similarities, they are quite different as well. If S&W made a heavy barrel N frame like the 25-5 in .44 Spl, I would prefer it to the .45 Colt for all around use. Naturally the .45 Colt can out do it in the power dept if you really need it.

Besides, I've been lugging around .44 Special dies for over 20 years that Midway shipped me by mistake
Then you have ignored destiny for 20 years...... :cool:

buy another house
Don't ya hate it when life gets in the way.
 
Just my experience if I may. I like both cartirdges but I bought a Ruger Vaquero in 45 Colt when they first came out(no 44's then) and managed to buy a 45 ACP Blackhawk cylinder on GB for a reasonable price. With a little bit of fitting, I have a Vaquero Convertable and the 45 ACP cylinder actually outshoots the 45 Colt. I'd go for the 45! :)
 
Are these two guns the same size, or is the 44 a little smaller and lighter?

If they are both built on the same frame, they are essentially identical, no?

Any desire to fit a 45acp cylinderin the future?
The .45 ACP cylinder was basically the deciding reason to get the .45 Colt.

I thought the .44 Spec gun was actually slightly heavier when I handled it.

As to the hotloading, its a New Model Blackhawk so no super magnum loads. But then Im pretty sure a 300 grn bullet at 1000 FPS should do anything I ever plan on using this gun for.
 
You can just flip a coin on this. I had a Ruger Old Model Vaquero in 45 LC and now I have this Lipsey special order Flattop in 44 Special.

Gunwriters have spent more than a century making a living by creating canyons out of hair splitting differences, I am going out on the limb and say that the difference between a 44 Special and a 45 Long Colt is not that much. I believe when S&W decided to upgrade the 44 Russian, they looked at 45 LC velocities and ballistics and decided to make the 44 Special a close duplicate.

How big of a difference is it between a 43 caliber 240 L bullet going 850 fps and a 45 caliber 255 L going 850 fps?

Their are libraries of articles in print claiming huge differences, but in my hands, on my targets, not so much.

In the Blackhawk frame either cartridge can be loaded to recoil levels that are just unpleasant.

Both are fine cartridges. In period guns, such as Elmer Keith used, a 43 caliber cartridge gave .02” more cylinder wall, and with the dead soft, plain carbon steel metallurgy of the day, that tiny difference allowed Keith to push 240’s at 1200 fps in his 44 Specials. If you read his book “Six Guns Cartridges and Loads” Elmer Keith writes of the number of Colt SAA’s in 45LC that he blew up trying to get the velocities he wanted. He tried 300 grain bullets in the 45 LC. And he blew up a SAA with that load.

Nowdays in thick walled revolver cylinders and modern alloy steels, you can push both cartridges to performance levels that exceed safety limits in Keith’s period SAA’s.

Not to say I would push the envelope in modern Colt SAA replicas. Those are still light framed guns and heavy Keith loads will beat them up. The upper load increased the diameter of the cylinder pin in my USFA 44 Spl. I don't know how it upset the cylinder pin but it did. Had to disassemble the frame to knock it out with a punch. That experiment did not last long. :eek:

However in something like a Blackhawk, you can get more.

I easily pushed a 240 L at 1000 fps in my 44 Blackhawk. The recoil was getting up there, the accuracy was excellent, and it is a powerful load. I don’t like shooting 44 Magnums, too much blast and recoil, so for me, this is a excellent top end load in a Blackhawk.

I have used the 6 ¼ grain and 6 ½ grain loads in Charter Arm Bulldogs. Loading manuals of yore claimed that 6.5 grains Unique was duplicate factory velocity. I have used tens of thousands of these lighter loads in N frame Smiths with far less wrist pain. You just have to shoot a Bulldog with a factory load to appreciate the recoil you get out of those things.

In terms of accuracy, back in Elmer Keith's day, the 44 Special revolvers tended to be more accurate but that was due to less variance in manufacturing standards. This might still be true today as 45LC chamber throats vary all over the place. You can find modern Colt made SAA’s and 70’s vintage S&W 45 LC’s with .457 or .458 chamber mouths. S&W reduced their chamber mouths in the 45LC in 1988 to 452 and in my hands, their 45 LC’s shoot just great. Ruger chamber mouths are .452 in the revolvers I owned.

Since I only shoot handguns offhand, I don’t use a bench rest and I don’t use a ransom rest, modern properly dimensioned 44 Specials and 45 LC’s are equally accurate in my hand, though I have this feeling that my M624 is slightly more accurate at 50 yards than my M625-9.

Mike Venturino got paid to publish articles where he claims that both the 44 Special and 45 LC stink when shot from a ransom rest.

Heck if I know.


Code:
[SIZE="3"]
44 Spl Ruger Blackhawk 	
					
240 LSWC Valiant  6.25 grs Unique thrown, lot 6/21/-98/92 Midway cases, Brass WLP
T ≈  60-65 ° F	19-Apr-09		 		
		 			
Ave Vel =	835.4				
Std Dev =	26.83				
ES =	74.52				
High = 	877.5				
Low=	803				
N =	24				
					
240 LSWC Valiant  6.6 grs Unique thrown, lot UN364 3/9/92 Midway cases, Brass WLP
T ≈  60-65 ° F	19-Apr-09		 		
		 			
Ave Vel =	875.4				
Std Dev =	25.94				
ES =	109.6				
High = 	914.8				
Low=	805.2				
N =	25				
					
240 LSWC Valiant  7.5 grs Unique thrown,  lot UN364 3/9/92 Midway cases, Brass WLP
T ≈  60-65 ° F	19-Apr-09		 		
		 			
Ave Vel =	1001				
Std Dev =	17.32				
ES =	64.32				
High = 	1027				
Low=	963				
N =	27[/SIZE]

DSCN9337Rightside44Spl.jpg

DSCN9341Microsight.jpg
 
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The .45 ACP cylinder was basically the deciding reason to get the .45 Colt.

I thought the .44 Spec gun was actually slightly heavier when I handled it.

As to the hotloading, its a New Model Blackhawk so no super magnum loads. But then Im pretty sure a 300 grn bullet at 1000 FPS should do anything I ever plan on using this gun for.
I think the .44 Special is heavier, too. I have both, a .45 Convertible in 4 5/8" barrel, and a .44 Special with a 5 1/2" barrel. The .45 has an aluminum grip frame and ejector rod housing, and bigger holes. The .44 has the smaller frame and cylinder, but a steel grip frame and ejector rod housing, and more metal due to the smaller holes.

They feel like completely different guns.

I bought the .45 convertible mainly for the .45 Auto cylinder, but in all honestly, I hardly ever use it.

As far as "loading up", yeah, you can put some vicious loads through the .45 Blackhawk. But you can also put some nasty loads through the Special, too. Granted, they aren't full house .44 magnum level, but you can safely run the "Keith load" of a 250 grain LSWC at 1200 fps without issue. I've shot this load, and it is a bit beyond my pleasure level in that small frame gun. It's basically a hunting load, and is at the lower end of the .44 mag range in terms of bullet weight and velocity.

I'd say if you can get both, do it, but if I had to pick just one....it would be the .45.
 
As Hammerdown posted, the .44Spl is on the mid-frame. The .45 is on the large frame. Due to materials used the .44Spl is actually heavier. IMHO, a large frame Ruger with aluminum XR3-RED grip frame balances and handles all wrong. The all steel mid-frame with the XR3 grip frame balances and handles wonderfully. They are also built on new CNC machinery and are VERY consistently good. Obviously the large frame .45 can be loaded heavier but the .44Spl pushing 250's at 900-1200fps can handle 99% of everything that ever needs doing for 99.99% of shooters. You can push 360's at 1100fps in the .45 but for me, that requires a costly Bisley conversion and at that, the sixgun is no longer quite as light and packable, easily exceeding the weight of the .44Spl. So it really all comes down to intended usage and personal preference.
 
I'm not up on my Rugers anymore, having divested my collection of them over two years ago. My .45 convertible left over eight years ago, but - at that time, I believe the blued BH's were fitted with an Al alloy gripframe and ejector tube, the SS BH's having steel components. I am not sure about the current offerings. From the 2010 catalog, pg 83, the 4.6" convertible .45, BN-44XL, weighs 42 oz - as does the 4.6" new .44 Special, NVB-444. Now - the .45 Colt 4.6" blued BH, BN-44L, weighs 36 oz! If it's made with the Al ejector tube & gripframe, I wouldn't want it. I'd spend a few bucks more for the all-steel convertible - and gain that .45 ACP cylinder, too. WallyWorld near me still carries 250 rds of UMC 230gr .45 ACP ball ammo, for those Sunday afternoons when your basement ammo factory is closed.

Now... about the .44 Special... don't forget, it'll also load the .44 Russian. A few commercial reloaders make that caliber - Starline still makes the brass - Lee .44 Special/Magnum dies work with little modification. I load a 240gr LSWC over 3.5-4.2gr Titegroup in Starline .44 Russian brass - runs 700-760 fps from my 4" 629. At 3.5gr Titegroup/700 fps, it sounds & recoils like a real poof load - but makes majoy power factor - and knocks the poop out of steel plates. Up that to 4.8gr and use .44 Special brass, and it'll make830+ fps from that 4" 629.

Incidently, I am tumbling about 100 cases - 2/3 Specials & 1/3 Russians - from today's trip to the range. Besides the 4" 629, I also had my 4" 617 and a bunch of .22's - it stole the majority of my shooting time, despite not impressing those steel plates very much. It was still hot - 90F - but lower humidity.

Stainz

PS When you get tired of SA-only shooting... look at a S&W 629 - great .44 Special & Russian launch platform... and more, when you are ready.
 
Them Ruger Bisley Blackhawk 44 specials have been talking to me as well.

If I could do it over again I'd go 44 special instead of 45 colt.:banghead:
 
I don't mean to stir up controversy (OK, I do), but I have the BH in 44 mag. I shoot 44 sp for the most part, but do occasionally shoot the thumper round. A nice option to think about. And, yes, I do shoot 45 LC as well. I have three of the best calibers in just two guns.
 
Well, I have more than my share of .44 Specials, but recently trimmed the herd back a bit. I also found a Ruger 5-1/2" Bisley Blackhawk Stainless Convertible in .45 Colt & .45 Auto that is destined to become my hunting handgun. It has replaced a couple of .44 Specials and all of my .44 Magnums. I also recently traded a CZ shotgun for a Winchester 1892 Limited in .45 Colt, so I'm covered in the lever gun department for the .45 Colt.

The .45 Colt is a terrific cartridge (and very versatile in the Ruger), but the .44 Special always brings a smile to my face. This is not an easy choice you have.
 
There is no bad choice.

I like the .44 special because it can do most of what I want and use less component to do it. The .45 probably has the versatility edge but I use several more grains of powder and a substantial amount of extra lead casting for the larger .45 projectiles.

I'm not really into hand cannon stuff all that much so I would say .44 special unless you want to load some painful whumpers.
 
you can get a lot more wallop out of a 45 colt and you can also load it down their is more 45 bullets compared to 44 i dont think a 44 specal would shoot a 350 bullet very well but my 45 colt shoots it great i know i will hear it about this but the 44 is a dying calibrefor example what is a new 44 round none the 452 has 2 new rouunds
 
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