Blackpowder weapons for concealed carry?

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does anyone know that a 58'remmi and standard 45acp ammo ballistics are virtually identical?,the only advantage to a 45acp is the ease of readiness and compactness,but those that use c&b only would probably be just as prepared as the 45acp.


mike:evil:


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colt model 1860 army 44 cal. 8" barrel)
37 grain load/138gr.=.451rb bulllet/[email protected]


(magtech cowboy load) cartridge
45 lng. colt 250grn. bullet [email protected]

(ultramax cowboy ammo)
45 lng. colt 250grn. bullet [email protected]

(colt walker 9" barrel)
50 grain load/141gr.=.454rb bulllet/[email protected]!!!!!

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modern gun ballistics


(wolf gold line ammo)
45 lng. colt 185grn. bullet [email protected]


(cci blazer ammo)
45 lng. colt 230grn. bullet [email protected]

(winchester pistol usa ammo)
45 lng. colt 230grn. bullet [email protected]

(remington handgun ammo)
45 lng. colt 230grn. bullet [email protected]

(hornady ammo)
45 lng. colt 230grn. bullet [email protected]he first.
 
In my college years I kept a .36 Remington copy as a bedside gun. It was in a less than secure room where there was a chance I'd lose the gun while I was in class or otherwise gone, so I didn't want to risk my only other good revovler, a slick M-19. The .36 pointed well for me, good for low/no light, and I'd shot it for several years w/o problems (grew up shooting black powder rifles, revolvers and shotguns). It served fine in that role.

An aquaintance of mine did have a problem with one. He raised chickens for eggs/fried chicken, took it serious due to his financial condition. He had a good .32 Blackhawk, but also had a .36 C&B. One night he heard a comotion in the chicken house. He didn't want to shoot the .32 Blackhawk b/c of the cost for the shells, so he hastily loaded one chamber of the .36 C&B, went into the chicken house and confronted a skunk which was in the back of the chicken house. He manuvered to get the shot, killed the skunk, and discovered the skunk's companion had him cornered in his own chicken house w/o a second shot. He re-thought his position on the cost of .32 H&R shells.
 
shooting on a shoestring said:
In my college years I kept a .36 Remington copy as a bedside gun. It was in a less than secure room where there was a chance I'd lose the gun while I was in class or otherwise gone, so I didn't want to risk my only other good revovler, a slick M-19. The .36 pointed well for me, good for low/no light, and I'd shot it for several years w/o problems (grew up shooting black powder rifles, revolvers and shotguns). It served fine in that role.

An aquaintance of mine did have a problem with one. He raised chickens for eggs/fried chicken, took it serious due to his financial condition. He had a good .32 Blackhawk, but also had a .36 C&B. One night he heard a comotion in the chicken house. He didn't want to shoot the .32 Blackhawk b/c of the cost for the shells, so he hastily loaded one chamber of the .36 C&B, went into the chicken house and confronted a skunk which was in the back of the chicken house. He manuvered to get the shot, killed the skunk, and discovered the skunk's companion had him cornered in his own chicken house w/o a second shot. He re-thought his position on the cost of .32 H&R shells.
Click to expand...

If your friend had loaded more than 1 shot in his revolver he wouldn't have had that sick feeling.

Although I have a few .45 Auto pistols & my grand fathers .44-40 Colt I still keep at least 1 C&B revolver loaded w/ 5 chambers of either a .457 142gr. Ball or a .456 220gr. Conical for one reason or another & wouldn't hessitate nor feel undergunned if it was the weapon that got to my hand first.
 
voodoochile

you shouldn't my friend and my post above your "the modern versus bp loads" should prove that to anyone listening with there eyes and ears open.


Respectfully,

mike
 
The story about shooting someone with the 1858 Remington seems a little troubling. I find it extremely hard to believe the police never showed up following a shooting, of any sort. With all of the blood on the walls etc as described, there should have been something more. I find it extremely hard to believe that two shots from a blackpowder revolver would leave that kind of trail behind and no body to account for it.
The smoke alone would obscure your sight for a quick second, well aimed follow up shot. Shooting blackpowder indoors because of the smoke presents a whole other set of difficulties. Hearing other voices and then shooting at or toward the voices is another real stretch and hard to justify. Being blinded by the muzzle flash and loosing your hearing I can understand. Generally you lose your night vision for several seconds if that is the case. Shooting nearly deaf and blind at a possible second target does not seem to be the prudent thing to do, strange voices or not.
I find the whole episode very hard to swallow. I speak from experience.
 
This has been some good reading. A few years back my '60 was the most reliable firearm I had, so that was my home defense gun. I also had a .22 Colt Woodsman, but it would jam pretty regular. It's since outgrown that habit. Fortunately, neither were ever needed.

But the one question that keeps buggin' me is, how does one carry something like a '60 concealed? I have trouble with a .38Spl Smith and Wesson with a 2 inch barrel.

Considering reliablity, I shoot percussion revolvers at Cowboy Action Matches. I've noticed more folks having reliablity problems with cartridges than I do with my percussions.
 
concealed carry

I honestly think that the reliability concerns applied to cap and ball revolvers are over stated. A black powder revolver especially of the Remington design, is every bit as reliable as a modern auto loader. A properly cared for, carefully loaded and appropriately carried cap and ball revolver is every bit as effective as a modern hand gun. If the owner is consciensious about maintaining it than its only disadvantage is reloading speed. When I've done my part my cap and ball revolvers have gone bang every time. I personally would not hesitate to carry a cap and ball revolver for personal defense.

Don
 
Now it's my turn to disagree. There is no way that a cap & ball revolver is as reliable as a modern handgun. Now, I have only one cartridge gun, a Ruger Speed Six in .357/.38 and it has never ever failed to fire. No...wait, I have a little Beretta .22 that is also a great gun. Anyways, I have...let me see...15 or so BP revolvers and the only one that I would trust my life on is a Ruger Old Army. I like BP revolvers much more than a modern handgun but let's be serious...
 
I have 6 out of 10 Remington 58's in my safe that I would use to defend my life with the same conviction as I would my Ruger Police Service Six...which I have had since the 1970's.
2 ROA's I'd trust also...that I have recently come to terms with more than acceptance, gotta luv um.
Got 15 Colts 5 of which I'd trust to defend myself with...
Got 2 Reb guns one unfired, one not tested yet. And 1 R&S that I have not tested yet. 1 .22 C&B 5 shot derringer Rev I wouldn't.
The ones I did not say I trusted I have not gone thru to meet my QA for trust. Loaded properly(for myself) I'd trust any of them that said I would, to include my Ruger Police Service Six .357 Mag., a 12ga. Ithica D.S. Police Special, or either Russian SKS...almost forgot my Ruger 10/22 w/ 10 or 25rnd magazine. <<< I trust them too!
Just for me, any gun is only as good as you can make it. Whether you have a gunsmith make it right or do it yourself, a gun is of no use as a protection tool or life jacket if you can't trust it.

SG
 
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Well spoken SG, very well spoken.

The weapon "be it a modern cartridge firing type or even a 150 year old designed muzzle loader" is only part of the equasion, if the weapon is in reliable shape like you said the rest is the person that wields it.
 
The story about shooting someone with the 1858 Remington seems a little troubling.
Click to expand...

It troubled me a bit, too, and I was there!

I find it extremely hard to believe that two shots from a blackpowder revolver would leave that kind of trail behind and no body to account for it.
Click to expand...

The fella in question had taken two steps into the house. He was still blocking the door, and his buddies had to go over him on the way out to their car. There may have been some dragging involved, although I found very little blood outside the door.

I was upset about the second shot, after I had time to think about it. One of my buddies' girlfriends lived right across the alley! I checked the house and line of garages later, but found no bullet hole. Still, no excuse. That was irresponsible.

The police not showing up was no surprise. This was the kind of neighborhood where kids shot rats in the back yard without any concern about the police showing up. A local gang-banger got shot a block away, and the ambulances came and went long before any police cars showed up.

I found it hard to swallow, too. A mixture of dry-mouth and powder residue, I guess.
 
This account seems fantastic. What could you have possibly been thinking of when you decided to load and cap a revolver, placing it in the cabinet to display with younger children around? And doing this at night when there is no chance to admonish the children to stay away from the weapon, but intending it to be displayed and possibly admired is insanity, and just asking for trouble.
You state there was blood everywhere including the ceiling tiles, and even describe the thick blood on the floor. That tells me that there was quite possibly a homicide that had taken place in your grandparents' kitchen. That would mean you in a manner of speaking, possibly committed a homicide, justified or not.
If there is a John Doe unsolved homicide from many years ago, say 0200 hrs, Christmas eve 1974, there is still evidence of that shooting/ homicide in your grandparents' kitchen. It will still be there unless the place has been totally gutted and remodeled. Virtually no amount of cleaning except by fire is going to totally remove the evidence.
Evidence for homicides is kept for a period of ninety-nine years from the date of it's recovery. That leaves you with only about sixty-five years to be looking over your shoulder for the boys in blue to come around for a sit down chat. There is no statute of limitation for homicide. That means the case or investigation can go on for just about ever.
Something else to consider is that even if the individual did not die that night during that incident, he has a year to die of his wounds as inflicted by you. And that, still qualifies as a homicide.
You stated you were always told or taught to say the least to authorities/ police. That is a sheer stroke of brilliance. And here you are telling the world world of your adventure. And none of the neighbors called the police... there was no retaliation directed against your grandparents' house, or any of your family members, living in such a terrible place even the police were afraid to go into. What was there to fear for the gang members if they came back and did something to you or your family? Fear of the police?
And what about your "retired uncle" from the police department, was it LAPD? What did he advise you to do, don't co-operate with the authorities? Did he do anything? What about the rest of your family, what did they do? I suppose you just went about your merry way. What ever happened to doing the right thing, and being responsible?
I could go on... It does make for entertaining reading, but I believe you do us all a disservice posting such fantasies, feeding urban myths.
In summary, you claim to have been involved in a shooting, possibly resulting in a death/ homicide. By your own admission, you still retain the weapon used in that shooting, and there is possibly still evidence at your grandparents' house to connect the dots, possibly explaining how John Doe ended up dead. You admit you don't talk to authorities, and here it is for all the world to see. Absofrigginlutely brilliant.
Anybody out there want to go back into the archives and dig out some old cases? Heeeeeere's Suspect #1 ! And the cool thing is you won't even need to have your rights read to you right away, because these are all unsolicited, spontaneous statements. Stunningly solar flare brilliance.
Well Waldo, or is it Walter Mitty, you sure can tell some interesting stories.
Don't forget to keep looking over your shoulder...
 
Waldo, I wonder if you understand what you may have opened yourself up to.

SG, I am a pretty straight forward individual. I call it like it is when it comes to certain things.:cool:
 
I don't think I would carry a cap and ball on a daily basis, but I am planing on dressing like a cowboy with my walker loaded on my hip (simply because a 1911 just wouldn't look right) (p.s. I do not drink, so despite being at Halloween parties, I will be sober as a bird)
 
No response by the police is not at all surprising in a large city that has a high crime rate. Shootings happen all the time. Cops don't care especially when it's a criminal who's shot. Criminals don't report that they've been shot especially when they're engaged in illegal activity like burglary.

Good citizens not saying anything isn't surprising either. We had a bicyclist who was mugged by three latinos. Victim shot one and then ran away, leaving his bicycle behind. Along with his two buddies, the mugger jumped into the car but crashed when he expired. Police apprehended the suspects and from their statements, figured it was self-defense. However, the victim never showed up to give his side of the story. They couldn't trace him by his bicycle either since that was stolen by someone else. Why should the victim come forward and face a potential lawsuit for wrongful death? Not that the survivors will win but there's a huge headache and an out-of-court settlement. Secondly, there's also a possibility of gang retaliation. They'll know exactly who did it as it removes any ambiguity it a house full of people.

Here's another real life case. I know someone who shot two of out four muggers. One died, the other is paralyzed. The shooter, the victim of the armed robbery attempt, was caught by SFPD. The DA tired the shooter for a murder and when that failed, for assault with a deadly weapon. That failed too and the victim was freed. However, he received death threats and is recognized and pointed out in the streets every now and then. Today, he still fears for his life.
 
I questioned that story when I first read it (go back and look), but I quickly decided that it's pure fiction, and not even good fiction (right up there with Manyirons' stories of Da Mann).
If it is a true story, then everything that DoubleDeuce 1 said is true.
 
I've got a Deputy Sheriff that lives up the road from me that shoots BP and he wanted to read this story. After reading it he took more than just a fanciful interest in this story from South Texas so with the investigative technology they have nowadays he might learn more in a couple of weeks. There is just something not quite right with that story. Kind of like the wife that says she was out all night with the girls and you can smell Aqua Velva!
 
I should add that while not reporting anything isn't unusual, I wouldn't necessarily say anything if I did anything wrong. The old saying of shoot, shovel, shut-up comes to mind.
 
I know that I did nothing wrong in the shooting or the reporting. I gave the women on the phone my name and address and the particulars of the situation. If the police don't show up, well, maybe they have something more important to do.
 
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